Anyone Else Sick To Death Of Fps's
by Technomystic · in General Discussion · 05/02/2004 (5:25 pm) · 24 replies
Hello... Probably not the most popular of ideas but I just have to ask this question...
It seems to me that evry single game mod message board is flooded with one FPS regurgitation after another. Do not get me wrong I am sure that there is a lot of real talent at work on these mods and surely there is nothing wrong with FPS's as a genre. But damn! Is there really a demand for hundreds of variations of the same basic gameplay mechanics?
For the most part the FPS genre is a VERY STATIC entertainment medium. They MUST play a specific way, and this way is so well established that any deviation from it is the death knell of any mod brazen enough to attempt departure. There are only so many ways to capitalize on the latest innovations of physics and graphical effects when the user interface is " aim reticule, pull trigger, strafe right / left / back, pull trigger and MAYBE jump ". So this begs the question " What is it that makes one FPS any different from the hundreds of others clogging the genre ? "
To me introducing the use of vehicles does precious little to refresh the vitality of genre deteriorating at a break neck pace. Ragdoll physics is nice but is nothing more than eye candy added for the sake of immersion. The same could be said for any of the latest graphical techniques or even the application of realistic physics.
Anyway the point of all this rambling is to get feedback on whether or not the community thinks that there is a place for a mod that is based on 3rd person beat em up, platforming, team based game play.
I have an idea for a Bloodsport type of game based on the same idea of the Ancient Meso American sport Pok Tapok ( I think that was what it was called ) that combines soccer, basketball, and kick boxing. We have just begun the design phase of the idea so we are not yet ready to publish anything more than what I have just typed but I felt the timeis right to at least find out if this is an intriguing concept.
It seems to me that evry single game mod message board is flooded with one FPS regurgitation after another. Do not get me wrong I am sure that there is a lot of real talent at work on these mods and surely there is nothing wrong with FPS's as a genre. But damn! Is there really a demand for hundreds of variations of the same basic gameplay mechanics?
For the most part the FPS genre is a VERY STATIC entertainment medium. They MUST play a specific way, and this way is so well established that any deviation from it is the death knell of any mod brazen enough to attempt departure. There are only so many ways to capitalize on the latest innovations of physics and graphical effects when the user interface is " aim reticule, pull trigger, strafe right / left / back, pull trigger and MAYBE jump ". So this begs the question " What is it that makes one FPS any different from the hundreds of others clogging the genre ? "
To me introducing the use of vehicles does precious little to refresh the vitality of genre deteriorating at a break neck pace. Ragdoll physics is nice but is nothing more than eye candy added for the sake of immersion. The same could be said for any of the latest graphical techniques or even the application of realistic physics.
Anyway the point of all this rambling is to get feedback on whether or not the community thinks that there is a place for a mod that is based on 3rd person beat em up, platforming, team based game play.
I have an idea for a Bloodsport type of game based on the same idea of the Ancient Meso American sport Pok Tapok ( I think that was what it was called ) that combines soccer, basketball, and kick boxing. We have just begun the design phase of the idea so we are not yet ready to publish anything more than what I have just typed but I felt the timeis right to at least find out if this is an intriguing concept.
#2
05/02/2004 (5:46 pm)
Well actually it is an idea for a THIRD person bloodsport game. ;) But thanks for feedback.
#3
05/02/2004 (5:51 pm)
Maybe it's time for some 4th or 5th person shooters. 
#4
05/02/2004 (5:51 pm)
Like Deathrow?
#5
05/02/2004 (6:15 pm)
Yes quite similar to Deathrow, but with more focus on fighting. ;) 
#6
DooM III is meant to have small halls etc in DM mode so that the berserker mode works out well :-).
I think I know the game your referring to I don't think it was american.
05/02/2004 (6:43 pm)
Or BloodBall (gamesworkshop)?DooM III is meant to have small halls etc in DM mode so that the berserker mode works out well :-).
I think I know the game your referring to I don't think it was american.
#7
So does this sound like an exciting game concept?
05/02/2004 (7:10 pm)
I could be wrong about the country of origin of this sport but I am pretty sure it was Aztec or Olmec or Mayan.So does this sound like an exciting game concept?
#8
IMHO, FPS is still genre with alot of possibilities left to explore.
We have yet to see a MMFPS that actually exploits the MM part and and is fun to play.
Other options are more sophisticated crossbreading between genres, advanced tactical features and a better defined emotional influence.
To be frank, and don't get me the wrong way here, one reason why FPS seem bland is the exaggerated lust to revolutionize the technological side of the matter. More effort is put into making cool new effects rather than finding a solid gameplay.
Your argumentation Technomystic, is appliable to just about every genre simply because we have come to the point where technology is making it easier to compile the game compared to coming up with the actual idea.
Off-topic, your idea sounds funny, not the first time I hear something like it but I still feel there is a need for such games out there. I believe the key is the control-scheme, it has to be super-solid for the game to work.
Best of luck to your project.
05/02/2004 (8:56 pm)
To stick to the topic ;-)IMHO, FPS is still genre with alot of possibilities left to explore.
We have yet to see a MMFPS that actually exploits the MM part and and is fun to play.
Other options are more sophisticated crossbreading between genres, advanced tactical features and a better defined emotional influence.
To be frank, and don't get me the wrong way here, one reason why FPS seem bland is the exaggerated lust to revolutionize the technological side of the matter. More effort is put into making cool new effects rather than finding a solid gameplay.
Your argumentation Technomystic, is appliable to just about every genre simply because we have come to the point where technology is making it easier to compile the game compared to coming up with the actual idea.
Off-topic, your idea sounds funny, not the first time I hear something like it but I still feel there is a need for such games out there. I believe the key is the control-scheme, it has to be super-solid for the game to work.
Best of luck to your project.
#9
The focus on melee as apposed to ranged combat is increasing in games, just take a look at Realm Wars. In fact, in your persuits, you may want to try contacting Logan Foster if you need any help with melee play mechanics.
On the same note, two of my own designs are also derivitive of the FPS genre, taking it into a new level of play.
One focuses on a controlled Multiplayer environment, limiting the game to about 80 users or less, and places the player within an almost free-roaming world, similar to Postal 2. The game focuses more on melee combat and RPG aspects and ties it all together with a Horror Flick theme.
The other is designed to place the player within a dangerous and constricting environment, remove the whole shooting part of FPS, and let them match wits with thousands of other players in a race for their lives through a giant funhouse of traps and baddies to be the first one through alive. Other aspects of the game focus on pacing the action as well, things like puzzle rooms and multiplayer cooperative 'rides' that will try to kill everyone as they progress to the next level. I think it will make for a brand new genre of First-Person Action games!
So you see, there are indeed plenty more ideas to help strengthen the genre, and your persuits sound feasible as well so I say good luck to you and your team.
- Christopher 'Ronixus' Dapo
05/02/2004 (10:21 pm)
I fully support your idea for a Bloodsport game and I think that it will help to split off from the same old genre that's been stagnating for a while now.The focus on melee as apposed to ranged combat is increasing in games, just take a look at Realm Wars. In fact, in your persuits, you may want to try contacting Logan Foster if you need any help with melee play mechanics.
On the same note, two of my own designs are also derivitive of the FPS genre, taking it into a new level of play.
One focuses on a controlled Multiplayer environment, limiting the game to about 80 users or less, and places the player within an almost free-roaming world, similar to Postal 2. The game focuses more on melee combat and RPG aspects and ties it all together with a Horror Flick theme.
The other is designed to place the player within a dangerous and constricting environment, remove the whole shooting part of FPS, and let them match wits with thousands of other players in a race for their lives through a giant funhouse of traps and baddies to be the first one through alive. Other aspects of the game focus on pacing the action as well, things like puzzle rooms and multiplayer cooperative 'rides' that will try to kill everyone as they progress to the next level. I think it will make for a brand new genre of First-Person Action games!
So you see, there are indeed plenty more ideas to help strengthen the genre, and your persuits sound feasible as well so I say good luck to you and your team.
- Christopher 'Ronixus' Dapo
#10
05/03/2004 (4:08 am)
Its because devs making FPS games make the all too alike, not because the genre itself forces them to be alike.
#11
What I have been struggling with is "what evolutionary ideas can change FPS games". Team/squad play games (like Enemy Territory for example) was a bit of departure in that you couldn't finish an objective unless you had the right balance of teams (i.e. an entire squad of soldiers could never complete a level/mission). However this is just chipping away at the armor and not reshaping ideas. I don't know the answer but so far MMORPGs, themes, puzzles, and all the things that have been tossed into FPS like games doesn't seem to make it any different. It's just all lipstick on a pig.
-Bil
05/03/2004 (7:10 pm)
I look at FPS as a delivery mechanism for game ideas. Much like a RTS or third-person game, it's just how you package the game up. FPS has had the typical Doom/HL/UT/etc. tag on it, but I look beyond that. Hand to hand vs. shooting (vs. magic vs. whatever) seems much like the same thing. Just a variatiion on a theme.What I have been struggling with is "what evolutionary ideas can change FPS games". Team/squad play games (like Enemy Territory for example) was a bit of departure in that you couldn't finish an objective unless you had the right balance of teams (i.e. an entire squad of soldiers could never complete a level/mission). However this is just chipping away at the armor and not reshaping ideas. I don't know the answer but so far MMORPGs, themes, puzzles, and all the things that have been tossed into FPS like games doesn't seem to make it any different. It's just all lipstick on a pig.
-Bil
#12
I would also like to see something similar to the side-scoller spaceship shooters, but done as a 3rd person shooter... roam around, lots of baddies, lots of powerups, drones to help you out, etc...
I dont think the FPS genre is dead at all, it just needs some variety.
-s
05/03/2004 (7:24 pm)
The new ninja gaiden would make for a pretty damn cool fps type game... I would also like to see something similar to the side-scoller spaceship shooters, but done as a 3rd person shooter... roam around, lots of baddies, lots of powerups, drones to help you out, etc...
I dont think the FPS genre is dead at all, it just needs some variety.
-s
#13
" What I have been struggling with is "what evolutionary ideas can change FPS games". Team/squad play games (like Enemy Territory for example) was a bit of departure in that you couldn't finish an objective unless you had the right balance of teams (i.e. an entire squad of soldiers could never complete a level/mission). However this is just chipping away at the armor and not reshaping ideas. I don't know the answer but so far MMORPGs, themes, puzzles, and all the things that have been tossed into FPS like games doesn't seem to make it any different. It's just all lipstick on a pig. "
This is EXACTLY what I am talking about. Maybe there are innovations waiting to happen that WILL rejuvenate the genre but at the moment they all seem the same no matter what color paint you coat them with.
Personally I do not think that hand to hand or primitive weapon melee combat is quite so limited as FPS.... After all there are a million different ways to swing a weapon or punch, kick or grapple, but how many different ways can you pull a trigger?
05/03/2004 (7:24 pm)
Bil said" What I have been struggling with is "what evolutionary ideas can change FPS games". Team/squad play games (like Enemy Territory for example) was a bit of departure in that you couldn't finish an objective unless you had the right balance of teams (i.e. an entire squad of soldiers could never complete a level/mission). However this is just chipping away at the armor and not reshaping ideas. I don't know the answer but so far MMORPGs, themes, puzzles, and all the things that have been tossed into FPS like games doesn't seem to make it any different. It's just all lipstick on a pig. "
This is EXACTLY what I am talking about. Maybe there are innovations waiting to happen that WILL rejuvenate the genre but at the moment they all seem the same no matter what color paint you coat them with.
Personally I do not think that hand to hand or primitive weapon melee combat is quite so limited as FPS.... After all there are a million different ways to swing a weapon or punch, kick or grapple, but how many different ways can you pull a trigger?
#14
But if you're looking for an FPS with a focus on hand to hand combat (using fists), there's Breakdown from Namco. Problem is, its only on Xbox. It's worth a rental though!
Fps in my opinion is just one way to view a game world, I agree that developers should try wild new stuff with this 'tool'. That's what made wolfenstein and Doom classics after all. They were trying something that most people couldn't dream of.
Just a thought :)
05/03/2004 (7:37 pm)
Thief had melee combat if you remember :)But if you're looking for an FPS with a focus on hand to hand combat (using fists), there's Breakdown from Namco. Problem is, its only on Xbox. It's worth a rental though!
Fps in my opinion is just one way to view a game world, I agree that developers should try wild new stuff with this 'tool'. That's what made wolfenstein and Doom classics after all. They were trying something that most people couldn't dream of.
Just a thought :)
#15
muahahaha! ':p
05/03/2004 (8:00 pm)
What about a cockroach fighting game, and you crawl through thwe walls of an old mansion, and become the dominant cockroach!muahahaha! ':p
#16
05/04/2004 (1:43 pm)
Cameron, now that is just sick !! :P
#17
05/07/2004 (9:22 am)
One of my old goodies is Rune, a third-person melee hack'n'slash viking game (using the unreal engine). Still one of my favourite LAN-games.
#18
05/07/2004 (10:41 am)
I thought Rune was a HalfLife mod? Maybe they ported it to Unreal later...
#20
05/07/2004 (11:32 am)
Rune used the Unreal engine. Great game. 
Steve Fletcher
The maps would have to be small though so that you could chase people down and whack them.
You should have posted this in the game ideas section, and the topic line should of be something like "First Person Combat Soccer" instead of "Anyone Else Sick To Death Of Fps's" because that's really what this topic's about.