Environment design in Torque...
by Mitovo · in Torque Game Engine · 03/28/2004 (8:24 pm) · 3 replies
I've been doing alot of playing around in the Torque editor and alot of reading on the different asset types used in creating world geometry (.dif, etc.). This post is a mix of some observations, some suppositions and some questions based on what I've learned... If any of it is just way-off base, that's fine.. I'm still learning and am completely eager to be corrected :-).
What I've come to realize is that environment editing in Torque closely resembles level design with the Unreal2 engine (UT2k3, UT2k4, etc.)...
For example:
- Both have a height-map based terrain editing system that work very similarly, with very similar tools. (though I find Torque's more straight-forward and easier to get a grasp on)
- Both provide the ability to have terrain and bsp-based geometry coexisting in the same "world" with a seamless transition between the two.
- Both allow you to "cut away" polys from a terrain to allow entrance into subterrainean areas.
- The Unreal2 engine allows you to implement any number of terrains, as well as the ability to "flip" one to make it act as a "roof" - I don't know if this is possible in Torque or not... but it could be very useful.
That in mind, it seems to me that through clever use of DTS geometry, etc, along with clever usage of the terrain and of course BSP based geometry, environments with a similar level of detail as seen in UT2 engine-based games can be achieved in Torque.
Some examples:
Cliffs that are comprised of DTS geometry (so-called Hardware Brushes in UT) cutting into the terrain, while the terrain that would normally be there is simply "erased" so there's no overlap. You could create anything from a sheer cliff, to an overhang with moss and vines and roots hanging down over a natural pool cutting into the terrain..
DTS-based underground tunnels modeled and then imported to create an entire section of a level that blend seamlessly with the terrain providing a very natural and organic look.
Boulders, ruined walls, trees, etc. etc... all things that can provide so much detail and believability to an environment.
In the U2 tech, you can have tree shadows "projected" on the ground that sway slightly... I notice a lack of shadows cast by DTS geometry.. so I don't know if that technique is possible as a substitute in Torque or not.
I see no reason why all this can't be achieved in Torque.
There's only a few ways I can think of off-hand that might handicap Torque to a degree.. and for all I know, they could be overcome by some nifty coding.. Please let me know if I'm wrong here...
Continued in next post...
What I've come to realize is that environment editing in Torque closely resembles level design with the Unreal2 engine (UT2k3, UT2k4, etc.)...
For example:
- Both have a height-map based terrain editing system that work very similarly, with very similar tools. (though I find Torque's more straight-forward and easier to get a grasp on)
- Both provide the ability to have terrain and bsp-based geometry coexisting in the same "world" with a seamless transition between the two.
- Both allow you to "cut away" polys from a terrain to allow entrance into subterrainean areas.
- The Unreal2 engine allows you to implement any number of terrains, as well as the ability to "flip" one to make it act as a "roof" - I don't know if this is possible in Torque or not... but it could be very useful.
That in mind, it seems to me that through clever use of DTS geometry, etc, along with clever usage of the terrain and of course BSP based geometry, environments with a similar level of detail as seen in UT2 engine-based games can be achieved in Torque.
Some examples:
Cliffs that are comprised of DTS geometry (so-called Hardware Brushes in UT) cutting into the terrain, while the terrain that would normally be there is simply "erased" so there's no overlap. You could create anything from a sheer cliff, to an overhang with moss and vines and roots hanging down over a natural pool cutting into the terrain..
DTS-based underground tunnels modeled and then imported to create an entire section of a level that blend seamlessly with the terrain providing a very natural and organic look.
Boulders, ruined walls, trees, etc. etc... all things that can provide so much detail and believability to an environment.
In the U2 tech, you can have tree shadows "projected" on the ground that sway slightly... I notice a lack of shadows cast by DTS geometry.. so I don't know if that technique is possible as a substitute in Torque or not.
I see no reason why all this can't be achieved in Torque.
There's only a few ways I can think of off-hand that might handicap Torque to a degree.. and for all I know, they could be overcome by some nifty coding.. Please let me know if I'm wrong here...
Continued in next post...
About the author
#2
But not now.
I will try to write a reply to this sometime in the next few days, depending on insanity levels.
03/28/2004 (9:28 pm)
Yes.But not now.
I will try to write a reply to this sometime in the next few days, depending on insanity levels.
#3
LOL... Okay..
I knew I was writing a book there (I'm extremely affluent at being long-winded).. but it's a topic that I'm extremely interested in (different engines, technologies, design tricks taking advantage of the tech, etc..), and I thought it'd be an interesting thread to try and start up here, since I haven't seen any yet.
Anyway.. there ya go..
I look forward to your replies!
Take care,
Mike
03/28/2004 (9:41 pm)
Ben, LOL... Okay..
I knew I was writing a book there (I'm extremely affluent at being long-winded).. but it's a topic that I'm extremely interested in (different engines, technologies, design tricks taking advantage of the tech, etc..), and I thought it'd be an interesting thread to try and start up here, since I haven't seen any yet.
Anyway.. there ya go..
I look forward to your replies!
Take care,
Mike
Torque Owner Mitovo
First, I'll refer to the Unreal2 engine:
One thing that Epic did when upgrading the Unreal1 engine to the new tech is to do away with the visibility calculations derived from a BSP tree, which was a limiting factor in the amount of detail they could have in Unreal1 generation games. By eliminating that process (while retaining portals), they opened themselves up to the ability to increase environment detail in Unreal2 up to 100x over Unreal1 tech. Of course, without the visibility calculations, you're talking slow-down city since the engine could now "see" through any wall into entire regions if they weren't safely "concealed" behind a zone portal.
Thus, they implemented Anti-Portals to control the amount of detail drawn in such circumstances.. and those are used to great effect in Unreal2 games - especially in outdoor areas. If you remove the Anti-Portals from some of the shipped maps, the performance difference is staggering in many cases.
I don't believe Anti-Portal tech is implemented in Torque. But if it were implemented, I think it could definitely open the possibilities wide to provide such a level of detail without the cost of a substantial performance hit.
For now, we have LOD and Portals to work with as our main weapons against overdraw and slow-down, correct?
Well, in those cases, I wonder what the limitations are?
There's a LOD system for pretty much all geometry, correct? Terrain, DIF and DTS? Well, I guess with enough work, you could get pretty close to a high level of detail without killing the client computer.
The only potential problem I can think of is how the terrain LOD functions.. I've heard that at some points, before it comes into full detail, that holes cut in the terrain will "fill in", causing a rather unnatural "glitch" in the visuals. I wonder what ways you could implement to keep this to a minimum? Perhaps by making sure any DTS geometry placed in that "void" is large enough as to cover the terrain even when it does "pop in" momentarily...
I've read something about LOS - though I haven't seen too much info on it I don't know exactly what function that plays in it all.
Anyway.. the whole point of this rambling is, I think that, with the right planning and careful use and placement of geometry, you could probably accomplish some very lush, detailed environments in Torque - perhaps even without the use of Anti-portals and the such...
Would anyone like to shed more light, insight or corrections to any of what I've said here?