...before I jab a pen in my eye...
by Mitovo · in Torque Game Engine · 03/26/2004 (3:53 am) · 22 replies
Hey everyone..
Is there anyone who can keep this aspiring environment designer from going insane by either pointing out some useful QuARK tutorials on setting the thing up and using it.. or.. point me to an alternate editor (such as Worldcraft) that *doesn't* have a broken download link?
I'm going out of my mind here with QuARK. I cannot get past just opening the program, creating a new file, deleting the default room and creating a few blocks and then giving up in frustration that I can't do anything else.
I can't figure out how to import textures - or even where to get a WAD file I can *use* (again, all th ones I've found online have broken links or are out-dated). I can't figure out how select individual faces. I can't figure out hardly *anything* that's going to be necessary for me to do anything in that editor... including finding useful tutorials that actually point all that out...
I'm perfectly willing to try a different program if that's what is necessary... in fact I almost prefer that at this stage.
Please? For my sanity? :-P
Is there anyone who can keep this aspiring environment designer from going insane by either pointing out some useful QuARK tutorials on setting the thing up and using it.. or.. point me to an alternate editor (such as Worldcraft) that *doesn't* have a broken download link?
I'm going out of my mind here with QuARK. I cannot get past just opening the program, creating a new file, deleting the default room and creating a few blocks and then giving up in frustration that I can't do anything else.
I can't figure out how to import textures - or even where to get a WAD file I can *use* (again, all th ones I've found online have broken links or are out-dated). I can't figure out how select individual faces. I can't figure out hardly *anything* that's going to be necessary for me to do anything in that editor... including finding useful tutorials that actually point all that out...
I'm perfectly willing to try a different program if that's what is necessary... in fact I almost prefer that at this stage.
Please? For my sanity? :-P
About the author
#2
quark.sourceforge.net/infobase/intro.texturebrowser.html
The QuARK infobase should contain all you need to know about the program itself.
03/26/2004 (4:23 am)
In QuARK, just go to the texture browser -> edit menu -> import files to import or link any textures. If you don't know how to get to the texture browser: search the menus or go here:quark.sourceforge.net/infobase/intro.texturebrowser.html
The QuARK infobase should contain all you need to know about the program itself.
#3
www.garagegames.com/docs/torque.sdk/tools/quark/index.html
03/26/2004 (4:25 am)
Setting up quark for torque and map2dif:www.garagegames.com/docs/torque.sdk/tools/quark/index.html
#4
cartographyshop.thegamecreators.com/
Torque support: only version 3, version 4 is in development.
www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=4571
Basically, you can use every program that supports exporting to Worldcraft/Quake-style .map format, so even 3dsmax, Milkshape or Lightwave/Gamespace would probably work with the right plugins.
03/26/2004 (4:35 am)
And if you don't like QuARK or cannot use Worldcraft, there's cartography shop:cartographyshop.thegamecreators.com/
Torque support: only version 3, version 4 is in development.
www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=4571
Basically, you can use every program that supports exporting to Worldcraft/Quake-style .map format, so even 3dsmax, Milkshape or Lightwave/Gamespace would probably work with the right plugins.
#5
I dunno... I'll see what I can figure out. All I know is it's frustrating because I know QuARK has all the built-in functionality for Torque which would be extremely helpful. And that so many people use and recommend it is evidence enough that it's a good tool..
However, that's also what baffles me. It's so popular, yet there's such an overall lack of tutorials on the 'net for it. Do a search for WorldCraft or Radiant and you get pages of results. Do a search for QuARK and.. at least for me, I've found, maybe 3 links... two of those being the main site and the one that is linked to in this thread.
And even *that* wouldn't be so bad - I prefer a hands-on, experimental approach to learning software. The problem is, I find QuARK to be *extremely* unintuitive. Hardly anything is obvious or logical, to me. Buttons everywhere, confusing configuration setups, no obvious way to perform many of the most basic and common of tasks. Ugh.. It's really flustering.
Anyway... I've tried finding a plugin/exporter for LW to MAP.. but to no avail. I only found one for Mac, and I don't think that'll be compatible on Windows. So that option appears to be out.
I'll try the infobase for QuARK again, but I didn't see anything in there besides a tutorial on how to make a cube and duplicate it to make stairs..
Thanks again, everyone..
03/26/2004 (5:05 am)
Hmmm... I dunno... I'll see what I can figure out. All I know is it's frustrating because I know QuARK has all the built-in functionality for Torque which would be extremely helpful. And that so many people use and recommend it is evidence enough that it's a good tool..
However, that's also what baffles me. It's so popular, yet there's such an overall lack of tutorials on the 'net for it. Do a search for WorldCraft or Radiant and you get pages of results. Do a search for QuARK and.. at least for me, I've found, maybe 3 links... two of those being the main site and the one that is linked to in this thread.
And even *that* wouldn't be so bad - I prefer a hands-on, experimental approach to learning software. The problem is, I find QuARK to be *extremely* unintuitive. Hardly anything is obvious or logical, to me. Buttons everywhere, confusing configuration setups, no obvious way to perform many of the most basic and common of tasks. Ugh.. It's really flustering.
Anyway... I've tried finding a plugin/exporter for LW to MAP.. but to no avail. I only found one for Mac, and I don't think that'll be compatible on Windows. So that option appears to be out.
I'll try the infobase for QuARK again, but I didn't see anything in there besides a tutorial on how to make a cube and duplicate it to make stairs..
Thanks again, everyone..
#6
Has anyone tried Tread here? If so, can I get a yea or nay as to its usefulness?
From what I understand, all I need is something that can save/export to a Quake .map format..
I suppose I could just import that into QuARK and then place the Torque-specific entities, etc... Or is there a naming convention that can be used to do it in a different editor that will work when imported into Torque?
Thanks!
03/26/2004 (5:35 am)
I just located another editor that I think might hold some promise, though it doesn't inherently support Torque.. Has anyone tried Tread here? If so, can I get a yea or nay as to its usefulness?
From what I understand, all I need is something that can save/export to a Quake .map format..
I suppose I could just import that into QuARK and then place the Torque-specific entities, etc... Or is there a naming convention that can be used to do it in a different editor that will work when imported into Torque?
Thanks!
#7
03/26/2004 (5:42 am)
You just need more patience, and read more before you try something , then read more before you give up so easily. Quark does have an obtuse workflow but it is very well documented on what that work flow is, the documentation is just not on the GG website.
#8
Yeah, patience by the bucket-load is definitely what I need for that program, I think.
As for the docs not being on the GG site.. that's not even the extent of it. If there were a frequent-flyer program for using Google, I could fly to France without a penny out of pocket at this point. I've been doing every variation on searches for "Quark" and "Tutorials" and "Quake Army Knife" I can think of.. and never came up with more than a few results. :shrug:
I'll figure something out...
03/26/2004 (5:54 am)
Jarrod..Yeah, patience by the bucket-load is definitely what I need for that program, I think.
As for the docs not being on the GG site.. that's not even the extent of it. If there were a frequent-flyer program for using Google, I could fly to France without a penny out of pocket at this point. I've been doing every variation on searches for "Quark" and "Tutorials" and "Quake Army Knife" I can think of.. and never came up with more than a few results. :shrug:
I'll figure something out...
#9
03/26/2004 (6:01 am)
What's wrong with the QuARK infobase? It explains everything quite detailed, it just doesn't provide an example for "ho do I build a complete level?", if that is what you're looking for, however it should get you started on the main QuARK workflow.
#10
I'm not asking to be told how to make an entire level... But knowing how to select an individual face without having to dig through pages of a reference guide to find it would be nice. Or, at least a button readily available and in clear view in the program itself that achieves that function. Most every other level editor, or 3D editor in general, that I've ever used has provided those such basic functions right on the main interface - you don't have to dig to find them. That's why I find QuARK unintuitive.
I have used several other editors: Worldcraft (a while back before Valve acquired it), WED for GameStudio, Serious Editor, Unreal Editor (still my reigning favorite), Radiant, the various editors for Reality Factory/Genesis 3D, and a few others.. Each of those has provided *some* sort of quick access to the most basic and oft-used functions.
My problem isn't not knowing how to create a level.. I'm fine with that. My problem is not being able to find the proper tools and functions to do so in QuARK. A 3D level editor is supposed to empower and enable the designer so they can get working as quickly and smoothly as possible.. not have them constantly having to refer to some pages-long reference to find out how to go into "face select" mode.
03/26/2004 (6:18 am)
Well, it acts as more of a Reference than a instructional resource.I'm not asking to be told how to make an entire level... But knowing how to select an individual face without having to dig through pages of a reference guide to find it would be nice. Or, at least a button readily available and in clear view in the program itself that achieves that function. Most every other level editor, or 3D editor in general, that I've ever used has provided those such basic functions right on the main interface - you don't have to dig to find them. That's why I find QuARK unintuitive.
I have used several other editors: Worldcraft (a while back before Valve acquired it), WED for GameStudio, Serious Editor, Unreal Editor (still my reigning favorite), Radiant, the various editors for Reality Factory/Genesis 3D, and a few others.. Each of those has provided *some* sort of quick access to the most basic and oft-used functions.
My problem isn't not knowing how to create a level.. I'm fine with that. My problem is not being able to find the proper tools and functions to do so in QuARK. A 3D level editor is supposed to empower and enable the designer so they can get working as quickly and smoothly as possible.. not have them constantly having to refer to some pages-long reference to find out how to go into "face select" mode.
#11
03/26/2004 (6:31 am)
Ok, I understand that. Selecting faces in QuARK: select the brush that contains the face that you want to select. The brush should be highlighted now and shows handles on each face, which you can use to move that face. If you just click on such a handle (don't drag like when you move the face), the face is selected. Its properties are shown in one of the tabs in the window on the lower left side of the gui. I hope that helps a little...
#12
Thank you! That is exactly what I've been trying to figure out.
I've been Ctrl-clicking, Alt-clicking and all sorts of other things and everything's been selecting the entire object.
Now I just need to figure out how to uniform and un-uniform scale..
Oh yeah.. and find a working .WAD file that I can actually import and use.
Thanks again :-)
03/26/2004 (6:38 am)
Stefan:Thank you! That is exactly what I've been trying to figure out.
I've been Ctrl-clicking, Alt-clicking and all sorts of other things and everything's been selecting the entire object.
Now I just need to figure out how to uniform and un-uniform scale..
Oh yeah.. and find a working .WAD file that I can actually import and use.
Thanks again :-)
#13
I found that in the "Creating a Map: Using brushes (polyhedrons)" tutorial from the infobase. It was the first place I looked when I read this topic. It made sense that face selection would be under texturing.
03/26/2004 (6:41 am)
Http://quark.sourceforge.net/infobase/maped.tutorial.polyhedrons.html#texturingQuote:To change the texture on just one face, you select the face by clicking on its face-handle. The same handle you used to size the brush with. You will see that the 'Face-view' now appears instead of the polyhedron-view.
I found that in the "Creating a Map: Using brushes (polyhedrons)" tutorial from the infobase. It was the first place I looked when I read this topic. It made sense that face selection would be under texturing.
#14
Initially, the texture browser is probably empty, so let's import/link textures:
First, create a new texture list by clicking on the first icon in the second toolbar (looks like a brickwall in front of a picture and a tag). Ignore the warning.
Select the list in the tree view. Now select edit -> import files -> import (copy) files and select the textures of your choice. You can also choose 'make file links' which just creates a link to the texture and doesn't copy it in the addon file.
03/26/2004 (6:50 am)
For Torque editing, you don't need .wad files, just use the textures by themselves (however, .png is not supported). To do that, bring up the texture toolbox: in the map editing window, select in the menu: toolboxes -> texture browser Initially, the texture browser is probably empty, so let's import/link textures:
First, create a new texture list by clicking on the first icon in the second toolbar (looks like a brickwall in front of a picture and a tag). Ignore the warning.
Select the list in the tree view. Now select edit -> import files -> import (copy) files and select the textures of your choice. You can also choose 'make file links' which just creates a link to the texture and doesn't copy it in the addon file.
#15
Thanks for that..
I wouldn't have thought about checking in Texturing as I was trying to find out how to select a single face so I could scale it down some. But in that context, yeah, the Texturing section does make sense.
I guess I'm just gonna have to suck it up and keep that InfoBase open... Ugh.. lol..
Thanks again for the feedback..
03/26/2004 (6:50 am)
David..Thanks for that..
I wouldn't have thought about checking in Texturing as I was trying to find out how to select a single face so I could scale it down some. But in that context, yeah, the Texturing section does make sense.
I guess I'm just gonna have to suck it up and keep that InfoBase open... Ugh.. lol..
Thanks again for the feedback..
#16
I don't have to import a WAD file? And all this time... all those Google searches and "file not found" messages...
Oh man.. lol..
03/26/2004 (6:51 am)
@ StefanI don't have to import a WAD file? And all this time... all those Google searches and "file not found" messages...
Oh man.. lol..
#17
Select the brush(es) you want to scale. You might have to select the selection mode first by clicking on the icon that show an empty rectangle with icons on the upper right corner (you can now select stuff by dragging a box around them). To scale, just use the handles that show up on the selection lines. If you use the round handles in the corners, you can scale and rotate. By holding down ctrl, you can limit this to only scale/zoom, just have a try at that.
03/26/2004 (6:54 am)
Scaling:Select the brush(es) you want to scale. You might have to select the selection mode first by clicking on the icon that show an empty rectangle with icons on the upper right corner (you can now select stuff by dragging a box around them). To scale, just use the handles that show up on the selection lines. If you use the round handles in the corners, you can scale and rotate. By holding down ctrl, you can limit this to only scale/zoom, just have a try at that.
#18
If only I weren't at work right now.. I could actually *do* all this stuff..
Thanks once again for the help!
:-)
03/26/2004 (7:24 am)
Cool! If only I weren't at work right now.. I could actually *do* all this stuff..
Thanks once again for the help!
:-)
#19
I know you can create curved surfaces/patches in QuARK for Q3 maps.. Are these supported in Torque... or are they converted over somehow to act like "normal" BSP data? If so that'll be something very neat to experiment with down the road when I've gotten all the basics down.
Thanks ;-)
03/26/2004 (8:51 am)
I'm not trying to get ahead of myself, but I'm curious...I know you can create curved surfaces/patches in QuARK for Q3 maps.. Are these supported in Torque... or are they converted over somehow to act like "normal" BSP data? If so that'll be something very neat to experiment with down the road when I've gotten all the basics down.
Thanks ;-)
#20
Matthew Fairfaix has been working on adding Q3 BSP support to the engine though
03/26/2004 (9:06 am)
At this time Torque does not support the Q3 patches. Matthew Fairfaix has been working on adding Q3 BSP support to the engine though
Torque Owner Stefan Lundmark
On the other hand, I do not know any working link so, sorry.
Wish you all the best of luck.