Torque on PS2?

#1 My thought: Do a forum search on PS2

#2 I already tried that. It didn't turn up the results I needed. Does anyone know how to get the dev kit?

#3 *Not* the linux one BTW - the kit from sony to make bootable cds

#4 Travis,

Find me a development PS2 and I'll be more than happy to organize a team to port TGE to the PS2, the thing is, dev PS2 systems are difficult to come by at best and are usually accompanied by a sizeable liscensing fee IIRC. Another thing you should take note of is that a port of TGE to the PS2 might be against the EULA set forth by GG, though I'm not sure of this... I've seen quite a few threads on porting to x-box, ps2, gamecube, even bizzare platforms that nobody has ever heard of.

All that aside, I've had the opportunity to visit a few places developing for the PS2 and having seen what I've seen, it would be a massive undertaking to port TGE to the PS2 as the PS2 has a proprietary rendering API... I could go on about the negativities of porting to the PS2 for hours, but to save you the headache of listening to me spew, let me just say I recommend against trying it.

#5 I actually asked the GG guys about porting during IGC. They all the same answer X-box port, would be easiest, followed by Gamecube. The PS2 on the other hand would need a huge rewrite. Aside from this you don't just go and port something hoping to sell it to Sony. Sony comes to you first.

#6 Simply put. Forget it. Its just not worth the effort.

You cant publish anything you do with the port, so what is the point?

Phil.

#7 Yes, that's true I suppose. But wouldn't the experience be worthwhile too since this is the field I'm going into?

#8 Travis, check your adrenalade.com email :)

#9 You can publish games using Torque on the PS2, GC or XBox.

The Torque license agreement doesn't forbid you from porting to new platforms, and doesn't forbid you (anymore) from selling through Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft for any platform, if that's what you want to do. Getting the development kit might be difficult, though. It's more than just paying the several thousand dollars to qualify for one. www.metrowerks.com has information on the SDK for XBox, PS2 and GameCube (or at least did at one point in time) under the relevant compiler.

The issue is, to hit these platforms, you have to have a publisher.

However, given that the Torque engine were ported to one of these platforms and used in a game title on them, you would still be writing to the same engine API as the PC version. So rather than spend $10000 and port your game to the PS2, why not go to your local electronics store, buy a $15 PS2 to PC USB adapter, use the PC version of Torque, and make the changes to it so that it supports the controller, then write your game to the PC version of Torque?

Later on, if someone ports it to the PS2, or if you get the SDK and feel like trying your hand at porting it, then your game will run on it just like it runs on the PC. You might have to adjust polygon counts or special effects or whatever, but then with the PS2.5 coming out in January or Febuary of this year and supporting better video hardware, having these things as adjustable variables, even in a PS2 game, starts to make a lot of sense.

And that's not to mention the PS3, XBox 3, or GC2 systems currently on the horizon.

If you can make a PC game that uses small save files, doesn't use the keyboard, and doesn't use the mouse -- using Torque or any other engine -- then you're where you need to be to write console games. Memory management is trickier and some other things, but today's consoles aren't like the early ones. If you can run on a 256M Celeron 733 Windows 2000 PC, chances are your program will run on an XBox if you get the SDK and port your engine.

Almost all modern games use a data-driven engine. You have script files, sprite files, etc. that are data the engine uses, and the engine itself abstracts the hardware and operating environment. This is so you can port to multiple systems, but it's also so that it's easier to test and throw away things.

You can make a script for weapon xyz, and if it isn't working the way you'd like, you can adjust the script without having to sit through a recompile and relink of the engine.

Even games that are only for one platform typically use this design. It's just the right way to do things.

#10 Might i add a comment, I agree with Dave, but i wouldn't just go get a ps2 to usb cord, i'd spend 200$ @ the sony store, and get their PS2 Linux Kit, and set up a home network, between my ps2 and my pc, because they i could build/compile on the PS2 and burn the cd on the pc, but, it would take to port it over, in my calculations (Which i am probably wrong), A. Making the video work together. B. Making the controllers work right, C. Being able to save the game on a memory card, and most of all adding network support for the ps2 network adapter ;), but if you can hold your self, wait untill the Phantom, or PS3 system comes out, they are rated at the top, for now. I donno if this helped at all, but anywhoo just thought i'd post my idea . . . feel free to chew me out :D

#11 As far as I know the Linux kit for the PS2 ommits any high performance graphics or sound access that would be needed for a game. Sony made sure functionaly and legaly that the linux kit can not be use to develop games for the PS2 without their permission.

#12 See, thast why i said a network, you make it alright, remove all the linux stuff, convert it back to a reg PS2, and burn the game to a dvd-r or dvd-rw on the pc, and play it on the PS2

#13 No can do. The linux compiler can't do that - it depends on the linux system libs, so you'd have to have linux built...

And even so, it would be illegal, which means that if you brought it to market, Sony would be all over you.

#14 Thats very true, never thought of it that way, my advice, BUILD ON THE PC!!!! i've seen many games do it, and you can go on ebay, i once say on ebay a complete XBOX developement set-up for like 4 grand

P.S. Microsoft used it too

#15 Well, if you go to or are planning to go to, the University of Advancing Technology in Tempe Arizona (which is where I go now), then you can use their PS2 Dev Kit (which is an official kit not that linux joke [Not bashing linux as I use it all the time and love it]). You can even take classes on PS2 Development. Great school by the way if anyone is looking for a school that will lead them to a career in Game Development (in all its forms).
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MachineGOD

#16 Try The Sourceforge PS2 DEv Site

#17 *Laughs* PS2? What a joke of a system. Sure if you like blood pooring from your eyes, and buying all this extra crap to make it worthwhile its great, but if you dont I recommend the mightiest of systems, the PC. Second to that, and a system I considered for its strength is the Xbox. But as a last resort I would choose the Gamecube, because it is cheap, and you can mess around with the hardware at little to no cost. Xbox uses an nvidia card, gamecube uses ati(when they were still below nvidia in performance), but the ps2 uses a proprietary card, and may be difficult to work with. In contrast with pc development, consoles dont have endless amounts of ram to work with, and on the ps2 it is very limiting. I own a ps2, and tried the development path for the system, but there are just so many better options, and so many weak points on the system, I decided to leave it collecting dust(besides socom, but now I have RainBow6-3), and work with my PC.

#18 Well, Chris, you do have a point. However, learning to develop on a console is/can be an important thing to learn. For one, consoles are where the money is at. Console sales annihilate PC sales. I myself prefer to play most games on the PC as I tend to find PC games of higher quality and better replay value. I do, however, enjoy consoles and currently own an XBOX. Learning to develop games on a console (Dreamcast is a great start for newbies) is very important if you want to get into the game industry. As far as indies are concerned, stick with the PC for now. I personally would recommend messing around in the Dreamcast indie scene or the up and coming XBOX indie scene. These are the most accesible at the moment which is why I recommend them to anyone who is interested in console development. I reccomend learning on outdated consoles (well except XBOX) because you learn the basics of the console dev path and the communities are thriving or building momentum. I wouldn't recommend Torque at its current state unless you are a wicked programmer who plans on rewriting the engine to suit your and the consoles needs. I recommend looking into the DC scene and reading up on the API and trying to code some demos. Also, consoles appear to be taking a new road that desktop PC's might not follow in the near future. The PS3 is going to have Cell technology (which sounds like a very interesting concept if you ask me) and the XBOX2 is planning on having some nifty tricks as well. Consoles in general appear to be taking a technological road in order to distance themselves from the current console(graphics)>pc(graphics) to pc(graphics)>console(graphics) loop. Anyway, that is just my 2 cents.

#19 @Chris - so you have an offical Sony Playstation 2 Game dev kit and I am not talking about the Linux dev kit which has nothing to do with game making?

#20 I've heard about several attempts to port various engines to PS2, most fall apart as soon as they see the NDA. I would like to be able to develop console games, though personally I'm going to try to develop some decent PC games first.

Dave Bacher

Quote:And that's not to mention the PS3, XBox 3, or GC2 systems currently on the horizon.

Now I don't know if this was a typo or not, either way it made me laugh, an XBox 3? If Ms is going to call there next system XBox 3, I'll have to seriously wonder if they can count. Or, do they skip numbers just to sound impressive? No, that couldn't be it... MSN 8.0 anyone?!

~sj