Animation and breakdowns is driving me crazy!
by Olexiy Kravchuk · in Torque 3D Professional · 09/06/2014 (8:38 am) · 16 replies
Time I used to think that has turned to solve the problem with the animation but I was wrong in the beginning I was doing animation using the calculation method of quaternions, but he gave an ugly distortion after import into the engine, then a lot of experimenting and conducted tests finally found a method that provided to use the Euler angles based but now using them again, I stumbled upon this disgusting and ugly distortion animation in the engine while in the blender, everything looks oK, this bug too critical, and I just into despair if at such a basic level as a reflection of the animation is created such an outrage that that we talk about more substantive and serious things, and I do not know how this problem has already been a very long time if are still not able to solve it, by correcting it may be necessary to radically rewrite the core of the broken part, leaving only the chain connecting pipeline as an interface and then attach the new kernel if the old is not possible to fix !, I encounter this breakdowns always and everywhere been a pain in the ass from this, in the community calm and silence quieter and quieter, probably many go the distance and do not intend to return it gets cold and lonely, do all surrendered? my head is visited by different thoughts about changing the engine on the other because I'm losing vision of perspectives here, I spent researching this for over a year and the time is still not able to do anything with it to create, if I could personally work full C ++ and what is the correct understanding that I'm doing this could in any way to reverse the situation that I'm pretty stubborn but beat my head into a concrete wall, just stupid, at least someone can say that the continued presence here makes sense and justifies the time spent, which has already invested or more will be in the future? are there any solutions to the key problems? I see a lot of dancing around the graphics and shader but who needs graphics when everything else is in a bad way? random bugs and other things that just do not work as it should be, I'm sorry for all this post, but that's just my convulsions of weakness and inability to change the situation despite all the efforts and the efforts it is just hopeless ...
#2
09/24/2014 (9:52 am)
Just chiming in to say "I feel your pain", Olexiy. I've spent many years banging my head until my forehead was flat, over seemingly inexplicable bugs in the engine (and even more often in my own code, sigh.) I do have some hope for the future of T3D seeing the progress that has been made around here, but I know how maddening it can be to stare helplessly at the same bug for months. Good luck!!!
#3
Daniel @ to reproduce my problem, you just have to take a simple cube, attach it to a single bone, and make few easy poses that will turn the cube around the axis "X" at 360 degrees, then try to create an animation of increasing bone axis "X" for example 20-30 times more than at the beginning of the individual axes (because in each axis, inside the engine you have to see the different effects), then save the file and convert it to a format colada, open the file in the engine and turn on the animation.as a result, you should see that when the cube will have only spinning it will begin to shrink and grow, instead of simply turnover, but when the cube will start to play the animation uncompressing, occur turn to one of the axes, and expand in all destinations at the same time instead of doing it only in one, and the greater the degree of uncompressing the stronger will rotation the cube.
09/24/2014 (11:20 am)
Chris @ Thanks for your support morale of, I still have not given up, and regardless of the resistance, continue to do my Projects. Daniel @ to reproduce my problem, you just have to take a simple cube, attach it to a single bone, and make few easy poses that will turn the cube around the axis "X" at 360 degrees, then try to create an animation of increasing bone axis "X" for example 20-30 times more than at the beginning of the individual axes (because in each axis, inside the engine you have to see the different effects), then save the file and convert it to a format colada, open the file in the engine and turn on the animation.as a result, you should see that when the cube will have only spinning it will begin to shrink and grow, instead of simply turnover, but when the cube will start to play the animation uncompressing, occur turn to one of the axes, and expand in all destinations at the same time instead of doing it only in one, and the greater the degree of uncompressing the stronger will rotation the cube.
#4
Just to make sure, have you run the collada file in other collada viewers besides Blender, to make sure it is only garbage in Torque?
I have had problems with the Torque collada loader and animations, but my problems have all been in relation to the left-handed/right-handed coordinate systems and Y-Z axis flipping. Nothing I've seen has converted rotations into scale, or anything like that. What you're experiencing sounds like it's reading a matrix wrong (row major instead of column major) or something like that, but ... ?
Sorry I can't be more directly useful, I'm not familiar with Blender or the exporter for it really at all, unfortunately. Good luck with it!
09/24/2014 (8:39 pm)
Sorry, a little slow here, just trying to figure out your workflow. You are exporting a collada file from blender? And then loading it into Torque using the collada loader, and it is wrecking horribly?Just to make sure, have you run the collada file in other collada viewers besides Blender, to make sure it is only garbage in Torque?
I have had problems with the Torque collada loader and animations, but my problems have all been in relation to the left-handed/right-handed coordinate systems and Y-Z axis flipping. Nothing I've seen has converted rotations into scale, or anything like that. What you're experiencing sounds like it's reading a matrix wrong (row major instead of column major) or something like that, but ... ?
Sorry I can't be more directly useful, I'm not familiar with Blender or the exporter for it really at all, unfortunately. Good luck with it!
#5
Yes, I tried to make test, but my way can be a little confusing, I just did not have any other programs that use colada files, but i will do so ... I created a cube in a blender with the bone, and then export it to a format colada, and then from the resulting file is imported back into the blender, then I checked the animation and distortions that I have seen in the torque was not, but I understand that this test is not conclusive. Need more testing, but I have no other opportunity to check in a different environment.
09/25/2014 (9:09 am)
Quote:Yes, I exactly has made this is so
Sorry, a little slow here, just trying to figure out your workflow. You are exporting a collada file from blender? And then loading it into Torque using the collada loader, and it is wrecking horribly?
Quote:
Just to make sure, have you run the collada file in other collada viewers besides Blender, to make sure it is only garbage in Torque?
Yes, I tried to make test, but my way can be a little confusing, I just did not have any other programs that use colada files, but i will do so ... I created a cube in a blender with the bone, and then export it to a format colada, and then from the resulting file is imported back into the blender, then I checked the animation and distortions that I have seen in the torque was not, but I understand that this test is not conclusive. Need more testing, but I have no other opportunity to check in a different environment.
#6
In Blender be sure you're in object mode, select the cube, and in the bottom left of the main 3D viewport click 'Object'. From the menu, hover over Apply, and then choose Scale. Once any scale transforms are applied like so, then try to re-export it to collada again.
May or may not be related, about the only thing I could think of right off that may be the cause.
09/25/2014 (10:05 am)
Are you performing any scale operations on the cube in Blender prior to exporting it? Perhaps you need to be sure to apply any of the changes to be sure they are 'locked in' prior to export. In Blender be sure you're in object mode, select the cube, and in the bottom left of the main 3D viewport click 'Object'. From the menu, hover over Apply, and then choose Scale. Once any scale transforms are applied like so, then try to re-export it to collada again.
May or may not be related, about the only thing I could think of right off that may be the cause.
#7
I'm afraid you do not understand the situation, the problem is not in the creation of a key of pose, or its absence, but the fact that it incorrectly calculated its inside the engine.
09/25/2014 (11:09 am)
Jesse@I'm afraid you do not understand the situation, the problem is not in the creation of a key of pose, or its absence, but the fact that it incorrectly calculated its inside the engine.
#8
09/25/2014 (1:20 pm)
Nothing I suggested had anything to do with creating keys or poses...I think this may just be a language barrier, lol. 
#9
09/25/2014 (3:31 pm)
github.com/Azaezel/modelExperiments/commit/908784dbd3a6ffdbf238b696ebef72875ec38... Reproduction case. Do seem to see the model compress and extend as it animates.
#10
lol :) yeah you're right, it's the language barrier, and apparently I'm not quite correctly translated and understood what you talked about, I'm sorry for this ridiculous confusion on my part :)) I translate again more carefully, and realized that you did not talk about keys or poses, I translated back again, and you will be laugh, this time I have translated very differently. I wrote an answer but then decided to check again, and translate more details having verified with a landmarks interface that you specify in a blender, and here for the third time, I realized that that does not understand what you had in mind)))))
PS I once again apologize for my incompetence translation :)
09/26/2014 (8:08 am)
Jesse@lol :) yeah you're right, it's the language barrier, and apparently I'm not quite correctly translated and understood what you talked about, I'm sorry for this ridiculous confusion on my part :)) I translate again more carefully, and realized that you did not talk about keys or poses, I translated back again, and you will be laugh, this time I have translated very differently. I wrote an answer but then decided to check again, and translate more details having verified with a landmarks interface that you specify in a blender, and here for the third time, I realized that that does not understand what you had in mind)))))
PS I once again apologize for my incompetence translation :)
#11
In Blender:
Select the Object
Pick Apply -> Scale from Object menu
Export
Again may not be your problem, but it was something that can cause problems on Blender exports. Good luck!
09/26/2014 (8:54 am)
Hey, that's okay. There are a lot of users who come here and English isn't their native language. Try:In Blender:
Again may not be your problem, but it was something that can cause problems on Blender exports. Good luck!
#12
I applied the scale and try to export, but it does not have any effect in the engine :(
09/26/2014 (10:03 am)
Jesse@I applied the scale and try to export, but it does not have any effect in the engine :(
#14
09/28/2014 (4:38 pm)
Unsure just yet. I doubt I'll be able to provide more than an example of the issue occurring for a bit, but it at least gives folks something to test against. 
#15
09/28/2014 (5:00 pm)
Olexiy - Az linked to a commit that added a Collada shape which reproduces the issue you're seeing. We're still unsure what the underlying cause it. We'll take a look at it after this week (the 3.6 release). 
Torque Owner Daniel Buckmaster
T3D Steering Committee
And, as I said on your datablock post, if you can give us a clear set of steps to reproduce what appears to be a bug, the more likely it is we can identify and fix it!