Character tutorial?

#41 @Rick:

I got tired of banging my head with this and purchased DoIt! from this site:

www.gameartstore.com/www/

This plugin will setup the bounds/collision and hierarchy for Torque shapes for you and has quite a bit of additional functionality. Depending on what your Max version is you can export directly to dts or setup in max and export to collada...

#42 Well at $15.95 I'd be stupid NOT to grab a copy of that, even if it doesn't work it at that price its no big deal, thanks!

EDIT: some kind of error when trying to buy just DoIt, but buying all 3 packs(DoIt, PhysIt, and BreakIt) works fine, better bargain anyway.

#43 Updates: Having the max file in the export folder did not help, moving right along...

#44 Attempting to try out DoIt, unfortunately much like the character art pipeline in Torque, the documentation just isn't very good. The instalation instructions are clear and concise up to here:

Step #3.) Start Max and run the script named: doit2.0.1.mse

Where it says that, then proceeds to give extensive background into version history and never once mentions how to actually do the thing it says to do. I tried opening the folder where the file was located and got an error. I am dimly aware that scripting exists inside 3D studio max, but in going on 9 years of working with the software I have never once had occasion to use it.

So this is kinda frustrating. I emailed there support, doubt I'll hear back.

EDIT: response from G.A.S. was surprisingly quick and helpful on the second email. Now to see if this stuff works!

#45 After loading up DoIt and using it to do all the setup for me(as near as I can tell - its doing a fine job) I get as far as the export and get this error:

Cannot collapse node "Bip01" because it is a bone.

The DTS documentation helpfully says:

Error: "Cannot collapse node "name" because it is a bone!"
You are likely using your CFG file to never export a bone that is currently in your scene, this can cause an error because the exporter thinks that the mesh (with Skin modifier) in your scene needs this bone to perform the deformation. Delete your mesh and then try exporting again.

E.G. its suggesting I delete the mesh... which is the thing I was trying to export in the first place.

But, ya know, still progress.

#46 So it turns out having Bip01 listed as a bone was the reason for THAT error, now I'm getting a different error that may or may not be regarding the mesh. So I gotta go over the mesh a bit more thoroughly.

And now the whole thing is just crashing when I try to export. But, hey, I feel like progress is happening.

#47 So here is where I feel like I am on this process:

I know how to rig and animate a character in MAX. I was taught to do this in school, I am familiar with all of the concept and theory behind producing a mesh, giving it bones, and then making it dance.

However, this is knowledge that applies strictly to 3D Studio MAX, and is not specific to the torque game engine.

There is a series of steps, then, that go from "here's your rigged, animated, completely just set up like this in MAX" state, to the "Now your character has everything it needs to work in Torque" state, and I cannot figure out these steps.

The tidbits of information I have managed to clean from helpful forum folk, terrible documentation, and various other sources over the past few weeks, do not fill in this void.

For example, I understand there is this concept of "nodes". Every single source of information I can find on the subject assumes I am already totally familiar with it and know how to set it up. I had to straight up GUESS that a "node" was a Dummy Object in 3D Studio MAX. I also understand they are supposed to be linked in various ways... nothing explians how, they just give me screen shots of the schematic view which tells me nothing.

I have been banging my head against a wall in frustration for several weeks now. I've tried working in other programs - there the documentation is either totally incomplete or the program itself is borderline unusable(and the documentation my also suck, its hard to tell honestly).

The level of frustration here is beyond all description. This is not something that should be so hard... but instead of breezing through it and being able to focus on making it look good, I am stuck at the most basic beginning steps of a process that should be documented.

Why? Why is this so hard? What is so incredibly challenging about writing down a series of steps so the next person to come along doesn't find themselves wheeping in a corner trying to carry out the simplest task?

#48

#49 I feel your pain :(. I wish I could offer some help, but I've never been able to nail down a process (with Blender) either. I stick to code :P.

#50 At least I'm not alone :P Thanks!

#51 Have you seen these two tutorials? They helped me get my custom character working. I did ignore the standard skeleton setup though, so I am not sure how much trouble following that causes.

#52 I hadn't seen either of those, I'll look over them, thanks!

EDIT: that second one looks like it MIGHT actually be a complete A-Z tutorial for 3D Studio max... if so that's EXACTLY What I've been searching for!

#53

Quote:
...they just give me screen shots of the schematic view which tells me nothing.

That is unfortunate (and upon reflection understandable) - I found the schematic view pretty clear but just about everything else to be mud.

#54 Okay there's a lot to read here. I can make you a tutorial on want u need step by step to get a character into the engine is this what you need?

#55 That would be awesome Kevin! And the T3D Wiki would be the optimal location for such a tutorial to live. Thanks a million for the offer man, you're a life saver!

#56 Would you want to start from a character rigged and ready to go into the engine where all there is left is to add the dummy nodes and helpers?

Also if you are using max i would suggest getting the openCollada plugin as the default collada exporter will sometimes give you garbage when you import a rigged character.

I can also supply some tips that can help you avoid the annoying thing when trying to match animation to your character so you aren't looking everywhere to figure out how to z out Z-rotation values and how to flip an animation 180 because you did not know that Torque flips the Y axis on you.

#57 There's a T3D wiki? Of do you mean the doc section?

Also I don't like writing 30,000 lines as im a visual and audio learner so that's the main reason i do video tutorials would this work for said wiki's?

#58 https://github.com/GarageGames/Torque3D/wiki is what I meant, but apparently it's not exactly what I think of as a wiki....

Perhaps we can get it shoehorned into the documentation. If you make the video I'll work on getting it into the doc repo - deal? And that list of helpful tips would be nice, too.

#59 I would also happily contribute to making a documented tutorial if there was a good video to start from.

Yes, starting from rigged with no helpers or dummies would be perfect. That's as far as my formal education on character creation went, as I understand it after that everything else is engine-specific.

One thing that's been giving me a lot of trouble that gets glossed over is the linking. I know how to use Schematic View and I have lots of screenshots of what a proper hierarchy looks like(and even fully rigged'N'ready characters to look at, but nowhere does it explain exactly how you are supposed to create the links. Is that just something you do on the schematic page or is there more to it?

Finally, while any sort of tutorial would be invaluable, my specific project is still using the .DTS pipeline(even though its a fairly modern T3D engine... who new?). I'm certain I could make a Collada character work eventually, and the next project will definitely use the collada pipeline, but that's where I am now.

Anyway, Kevin, if you make this tutorial you are a hero!

#60 I always assumed they meant to Link them - using the Select and Link functionality in MAX for instance. Not sure how to do it in Blender....