What do users think of Torque 3D?
by Bibi · in Torque 3D Beginner · 02/14/2014 (1:17 pm) · 33 replies
Hello everybody. I'm still in college and want to make a game with some of my friends since we've got some free time to kill. We're studying programming but we're new to game development and wanted to start off with a good game engine. We've come across Torque 3D and are seriously considering using it because it seems to have everything we're looking for.
I have searched the web for some debates on this engine regarding what the users think of it, but didn't find much so I thought where would be a better place to ask than here.
I'm not asking for a comparison with other engines. I'm just asking what you (the users) personally think of this engine. Is it hard or easy to learn if you're a beginner? Has it ever happened that you couldn't make something you wanted because the engine didn't support it? Did you ever think that something was just too hard to make and could be implemented much much easier? How is the scripting? What do you think of the engine in general? ...
Thanks to everyone for their answers.
I have searched the web for some debates on this engine regarding what the users think of it, but didn't find much so I thought where would be a better place to ask than here.
I'm not asking for a comparison with other engines. I'm just asking what you (the users) personally think of this engine. Is it hard or easy to learn if you're a beginner? Has it ever happened that you couldn't make something you wanted because the engine didn't support it? Did you ever think that something was just too hard to make and could be implemented much much easier? How is the scripting? What do you think of the engine in general? ...
Thanks to everyone for their answers.
#2
02/14/2014 (1:55 pm)
Quote:Not possible - you have the source. If it doesn't support it, just add it.IMO this is the reason the engine has a significant learning curve. If you're not comfortable with diving into the C++, you'll find yourself fairly restricted. On the other hand, once you get familiar with the engine's insides, you'll open a world of possibility!
#3
I haven't done much coding with TorqueScript, but it is much easier than other engine's scripters.
One of the major problems with T3D is that much of the artwork needs to be done by external programs such as 3dMax, Lightwave, Blender, etc. which has no direct support for T3d's .dts graphics (I believe Houdini is the only program on the market that does support .dts directly)
This would cause the beginner programmer to hunt over the web for external apps to convert the graphics to Torques particular graphics which can be frustrating. (unless you decide to use collada)
The only other problem I have is that I'm still using a windows xp machine I purchased in 2003-4 (I forget the fpu speed at the moment) and T3d operates slowly (Much slower than TGE). (Of course, I could buy a whole new machine with a faster processor, but I figure if what I have works, why buy a new one when I could use the extra money for something else!)
Nevertheless, the torque engines (with a preference for TGE 1.4) will be my number 1 engine, (3d Gamestudio and Unity being number 2) AND bLITZ3D AND monkey number 3.
BTW, not to change the subject, but have you tried Unreal. I believe they still have a free UDK kit available.
02/14/2014 (5:05 pm)
I guess I stand beside Mr. RANFT,I haven't done much coding with TorqueScript, but it is much easier than other engine's scripters.
One of the major problems with T3D is that much of the artwork needs to be done by external programs such as 3dMax, Lightwave, Blender, etc. which has no direct support for T3d's .dts graphics (I believe Houdini is the only program on the market that does support .dts directly)
This would cause the beginner programmer to hunt over the web for external apps to convert the graphics to Torques particular graphics which can be frustrating. (unless you decide to use collada)
The only other problem I have is that I'm still using a windows xp machine I purchased in 2003-4 (I forget the fpu speed at the moment) and T3d operates slowly (Much slower than TGE). (Of course, I could buy a whole new machine with a faster processor, but I figure if what I have works, why buy a new one when I could use the extra money for something else!)
Nevertheless, the torque engines (with a preference for TGE 1.4) will be my number 1 engine, (3d Gamestudio and Unity being number 2) AND bLITZ3D AND monkey number 3.
BTW, not to change the subject, but have you tried Unreal. I believe they still have a free UDK kit available.
#4
02/14/2014 (6:05 pm)
Hey Gary Roberson. We were actually looking for an engine that is open source and would allow us to publish the game without any extra expences. Even if unreal has a free UDK available as I am aware you still have to buy a licence if you want to sell the game, so we were thinking that it would be much better to start off with an open source engine since we have no budget at all.
#5
We're almost in the same situation. Good thing I kept my day job!
Well, as for modeling and artwork
Blender3d for models
Gimp 2.6 for textures and other 2d art work are the best way to go. they are both free.
Version 2.49 of Blender has .dts support for Torque, but youi have to look for it. I can't remember the thread where I found it? It is a python script.
for training there is Blenders own website, where it has books and DvDs for sale that shows you how to make characters, architecture, and produce animation.
Then there is blendercookie.com that has even more youtube videos on how to use Blender.
As for the art pipeline, I myself use Ultimate Unwrap which translates almost any format to any other format. last I checked, it is only $60.00
Many other programmers speak highly of Milkshape which is a low-cost modeler if you can't afford 3dsMax.
As for scipting, I use something called Notepad ++ which is a free programmers text editor.
Good luck.
@Mr. Ranft,
I see your name a lot on these forums. If you don't mind me asking, have you published any games. Do you have a website. How many hours a day do you spend at the computer.
Thanks,
02/14/2014 (9:36 pm)
I see,We're almost in the same situation. Good thing I kept my day job!
Well, as for modeling and artwork
Blender3d for models
Gimp 2.6 for textures and other 2d art work are the best way to go. they are both free.
Version 2.49 of Blender has .dts support for Torque, but youi have to look for it. I can't remember the thread where I found it? It is a python script.
for training there is Blenders own website, where it has books and DvDs for sale that shows you how to make characters, architecture, and produce animation.
Then there is blendercookie.com that has even more youtube videos on how to use Blender.
As for the art pipeline, I myself use Ultimate Unwrap which translates almost any format to any other format. last I checked, it is only $60.00
Many other programmers speak highly of Milkshape which is a low-cost modeler if you can't afford 3dsMax.
As for scipting, I use something called Notepad ++ which is a free programmers text editor.
Good luck.
@Mr. Ranft,
I see your name a lot on these forums. If you don't mind me asking, have you published any games. Do you have a website. How many hours a day do you spend at the computer.
Thanks,
#6
You have a very good example of a complete game engine with tons of scripts and C++ to look through. You are able to learn the engine and can create a game that fills your needs. Rapid prototyping because you start with a working exmaple.
Worst case:
You see how a commercial class game engine is structured and how some of best networking code in the industry is designed. You also are introduced to a high quality terrain system. The downside is maybe you don't have enough technical ability to complete what you wanted in the time frame you are looking for. Or maybe a design change occurs that requires cross platform "now". So you learn a lot, but it is not the "perfect" engine for the project.
For my current project I ran into the latter. I needed something that I just don't have the time or skill to create at this point in time. So I currently using a different engine that requires more skill in creating a working prototype, but has other features I needed now. So basically with T3D YMMV depending upon the skills of the ppl involved and the technical needs you have now.
02/14/2014 (10:02 pm)
Best case:You have a very good example of a complete game engine with tons of scripts and C++ to look through. You are able to learn the engine and can create a game that fills your needs. Rapid prototyping because you start with a working exmaple.
Worst case:
You see how a commercial class game engine is structured and how some of best networking code in the industry is designed. You also are introduced to a high quality terrain system. The downside is maybe you don't have enough technical ability to complete what you wanted in the time frame you are looking for. Or maybe a design change occurs that requires cross platform "now". So you learn a lot, but it is not the "perfect" engine for the project.
For my current project I ran into the latter. I needed something that I just don't have the time or skill to create at this point in time. So I currently using a different engine that requires more skill in creating a working prototype, but has other features I needed now. So basically with T3D YMMV depending upon the skills of the ppl involved and the technical needs you have now.
#8
In all honesty there is no "best" engine. Just the best engine for the project at hand. If I needed a high quality 2D engine I would start with T2D. If I needed a Windows only app I would stick with T3D. I need something cross platform "now", not 1 to 2 years from now. I don't have the skills or time to make that happen in my time frame with T3D. I cut my teeth on T3D and learned a LOT about game development in general. It is great to see a working engine. I also intend to cut out the networking and use it elsewhere. I will be studying the shaders as well.
02/14/2014 (11:01 pm)
I am currently working with the Panda engine. As I work with it I am still determining if it will do what I want. It is promising so far, but again this is a time and skill based decision. It really has nothing to do with how good T3D is. It just has to do with what I need.In all honesty there is no "best" engine. Just the best engine for the project at hand. If I needed a high quality 2D engine I would start with T2D. If I needed a Windows only app I would stick with T3D. I need something cross platform "now", not 1 to 2 years from now. I don't have the skills or time to make that happen in my time frame with T3D. I cut my teeth on T3D and learned a LOT about game development in general. It is great to see a working engine. I also intend to cut out the networking and use it elsewhere. I will be studying the shaders as well.
#9
I initially narrowed it down to T3D, Unity Free or UDK, however I wanted to own my games outright with no strings attached and no money upfront. So that left Unity Free or T3D. Personally, regardless of how easy it is to use, Unity's free version is crippled in my opinion. I'm sure others would argue but I want pretty water and real-time shadows and the ability to use LOD. There's more but that did it for me. I've always been drawn to Torque after I first purchased 3D Game Programming all-in-one back in 2003 or something but after it went MIT, I was ecstatic.
Anyway,now I've finally found some free time and can throw myself into working with Torque. My impressions so far are that T3D is pretty easy to get straight at it. I'm working on a zombie survival game(I know, I know..)that is set in a harbor town that looks suspiciously like the town I live in. The zombie game is over-used but I figured this would be a good way to grasp AI, as I could start with pretty dumb enemies.I am using other peoples free assets right now as I learn the engine but eventually I will make my own.
I find T3D's interfaces and set-up very intuitive. I love the way everything is integrated. Plus your game can look really as good as you want depending on how much time you are willing to put into it. TorqueScript, to me makes a lot of sense, coming from ActionScript 2.0. I don't see any reason you couldn't make any genre of game using just TS but have heard that this would be a bit slow.
Anyway, I think Torque 3D is a bit easier then most would think but perhaps it's a bit different for me since I have almost every Torque book ever written. They are great for reference and I found most on Amazon used with CD/DVD's included for very cheap. I've used some tutorial's online also.
I highly suggest to just download the binary and play with it, it has impressed me.
02/15/2014 (4:47 pm)
As a beginner myself, I can only give you my impression so far but first I want to explain why I've decided to go with T3D.I initially narrowed it down to T3D, Unity Free or UDK, however I wanted to own my games outright with no strings attached and no money upfront. So that left Unity Free or T3D. Personally, regardless of how easy it is to use, Unity's free version is crippled in my opinion. I'm sure others would argue but I want pretty water and real-time shadows and the ability to use LOD. There's more but that did it for me. I've always been drawn to Torque after I first purchased 3D Game Programming all-in-one back in 2003 or something but after it went MIT, I was ecstatic.
Anyway,now I've finally found some free time and can throw myself into working with Torque. My impressions so far are that T3D is pretty easy to get straight at it. I'm working on a zombie survival game(I know, I know..)that is set in a harbor town that looks suspiciously like the town I live in. The zombie game is over-used but I figured this would be a good way to grasp AI, as I could start with pretty dumb enemies.I am using other peoples free assets right now as I learn the engine but eventually I will make my own.
I find T3D's interfaces and set-up very intuitive. I love the way everything is integrated. Plus your game can look really as good as you want depending on how much time you are willing to put into it. TorqueScript, to me makes a lot of sense, coming from ActionScript 2.0. I don't see any reason you couldn't make any genre of game using just TS but have heard that this would be a bit slow.
Anyway, I think Torque 3D is a bit easier then most would think but perhaps it's a bit different for me since I have almost every Torque book ever written. They are great for reference and I found most on Amazon used with CD/DVD's included for very cheap. I've used some tutorial's online also.
I highly suggest to just download the binary and play with it, it has impressed me.
#10
I've decided on Torque for different reasons than you, but your game evaluations differ only on one engine. I've evaluated 3D Gamestudio instead of Unreal. if you look at the UI for both systems, they seem to behave the same. The only difference I could see between the two is that 3d Gamestudio doesn't have a visual scripting feature as Unreal does (Kismet).
My plans for Unity are for when i want to develop for the consoles, as Garagegames dropped products that supported development for them for some odd reason.
02/15/2014 (6:53 pm)
Jason, you make me feel proud,I've decided on Torque for different reasons than you, but your game evaluations differ only on one engine. I've evaluated 3D Gamestudio instead of Unreal. if you look at the UI for both systems, they seem to behave the same. The only difference I could see between the two is that 3d Gamestudio doesn't have a visual scripting feature as Unreal does (Kismet).
My plans for Unity are for when i want to develop for the consoles, as Garagegames dropped products that supported development for them for some odd reason.
#11
No, no published games.
www.roostertailgames.com - but it's nothing special. <edit> Of greater interest might be my GitHub repositories. A drag-n-drop "RPG style" inventory system in the T2D "inventory" branch and my AI Tutorial scripts (the tutorial was written but never made it to QA for validation and died on the vine). Anyone at GG know what happened to my work computer? The article might still be on there if it hasn't been repurposed in the last year....
I spend 8~16 hours a day at a computer. Some of it is work, some is entertainment. Sometimes work and entertainment coincide.
02/15/2014 (9:39 pm)
Quote:I see your name a lot on these forums. If you don't mind me asking, have you published any games. Do you have a website. How many hours a day do you spend at the computer.I used to spend a lot of time here looking for answers, now I spend a lot of time here looking for interesting questions....
No, no published games.
www.roostertailgames.com - but it's nothing special. <edit> Of greater interest might be my GitHub repositories. A drag-n-drop "RPG style" inventory system in the T2D "inventory" branch and my AI Tutorial scripts (the tutorial was written but never made it to QA for validation and died on the vine). Anyone at GG know what happened to my work computer? The article might still be on there if it hasn't been repurposed in the last year....
I spend 8~16 hours a day at a computer. Some of it is work, some is entertainment. Sometimes work and entertainment coincide.
#12
02/16/2014 (10:35 am)
@bibi - download T3D and try to do a little something with it and you will have your answer. 
#13
1. - To many chief on the boat.
2. - To many variation from different developer. So for new user is hard to figurative out what to start using...
3. - Tutorial are to old very old not up to day with the little change made to the engine. The video tutorial are old search Google and see for you self.
4.- No direct export/support for the later 3D modeling app. (like Max/Maya 2014)
I think these need separate site with a control group/developer with EXPERIENCE to add and update the engine so it be came stable and competitive and you can actually finish a game with without have to have a stuff of programer with you a simple strait forward reach with elements for the Graphic/Level Designer and Application Developer.
And for all those reason we are not using these yet for any of our projects.
Again my opinion only i know other may see it different and is all find we live on a democracy.
02/17/2014 (6:36 pm)
Well I been around these forum for only few weeks must reading and observing how these open source GD Engine is working for new user and old users, so im not impress Why?1. - To many chief on the boat.
2. - To many variation from different developer. So for new user is hard to figurative out what to start using...
3. - Tutorial are to old very old not up to day with the little change made to the engine. The video tutorial are old search Google and see for you self.
4.- No direct export/support for the later 3D modeling app. (like Max/Maya 2014)
I think these need separate site with a control group/developer with EXPERIENCE to add and update the engine so it be came stable and competitive and you can actually finish a game with without have to have a stuff of programer with you a simple strait forward reach with elements for the Graphic/Level Designer and Application Developer.
And for all those reason we are not using these yet for any of our projects.
Again my opinion only i know other may see it different and is all find we live on a democracy.
#14
Aw, come on. You can make a basic FPS without any real programming in T3D. Very basic. You will need programmers to make any game - unless you're just going to re-skin the same game over and over. You can't make your game truly unique without programming (in at least some form - might be a "visual script system" but that's still programming).
Torque 3D is not the "best" game engine out there. But as far as complete solutions with source code provided and no legal encumbrances (you can use it freely - no royalties, no restrictions, free), it is the best available.
02/18/2014 (7:28 am)
Quote:...and you can actually finish a game with without have to have a staff<sic> of programmers<sic> with you...
Aw, come on. You can make a basic FPS without any real programming in T3D. Very basic. You will need programmers to make any game - unless you're just going to re-skin the same game over and over. You can't make your game truly unique without programming (in at least some form - might be a "visual script system" but that's still programming).
Torque 3D is not the "best" game engine out there. But as far as complete solutions with source code provided and no legal encumbrances (you can use it freely - no royalties, no restrictions, free), it is the best available.
#15
I'm curious about this one. Are you talking about a DTS/DSQ exporter? Or are you talking about the Collada support?
Or are you referring to something like FBX support, which is standard to Autodesk programs?
02/18/2014 (8:37 am)
Quote:4.- No direct export/support for the later 3D modeling app. (like Max/Maya 2014)
I'm curious about this one. Are you talking about a DTS/DSQ exporter? Or are you talking about the Collada support?
Or are you referring to something like FBX support, which is standard to Autodesk programs?
#16
IMO there is just a few things keeping it from being a complete solution but the plug-in are there.
With things like ports for other platforms and occlusion culling in the works. The engine is rapidly getting to that point.
02/18/2014 (9:32 am)
I personally think T3D is great...The scripting like any is going to take a little learning but it works.IMO there is just a few things keeping it from being a complete solution but the plug-in are there.
With things like ports for other platforms and occlusion culling in the works. The engine is rapidly getting to that point.
#17
I'm talking FBX, is 2 step to port model/export fbx - convert collada.
But that is not that important is a inconvenient only.. the important part are to me are good Tutorial up today. the Chinatown is old i been seen that for a long time, but like i said if you like a challenger them you can expend severe days/months/year recoding these open source engine to fit you need. That is find as a hobby not production. But if you planing to have a product on the street on time these is not the right tool. If I have to get a stuff of developer and have them rework/debug and improve the engine to be used on production I will spend several dollars paid those people I will end up better to go and buy a ready for production and full technical support product. Again you like to experiment these is great it not cost you a penny.
02/18/2014 (11:38 am)
Quote:4.- No direct export/support for the later 3D modeling app. (like Max/Maya 2014)I'm talking FBX, is 2 step to port model/export fbx - convert collada.
But that is not that important is a inconvenient only.. the important part are to me are good Tutorial up today. the Chinatown is old i been seen that for a long time, but like i said if you like a challenger them you can expend severe days/months/year recoding these open source engine to fit you need. That is find as a hobby not production. But if you planing to have a product on the street on time these is not the right tool. If I have to get a stuff of developer and have them rework/debug and improve the engine to be used on production I will spend several dollars paid those people I will end up better to go and buy a ready for production and full technical support product. Again you like to experiment these is great it not cost you a penny.
#18
Old tread but really. Know the tools on the market to make your life easier.
Ultimate Unwrap 3D Pro will with two clicks convert any fbx(at least the older files so far) file into a .dae file with animations and everything. Even .dts if needed.
Hence if you can afford to buy software like Max of Maya 2014(also don't they come with collada exporters?) then you should be able to afford such a low cost option as Ultimate Unwrap 3D Pro.
Ultimate Unwrap 3D Pro is really a nasty evil piece of software when it comes to converting one file format to another. It does it quickly, lighting fast and without any issues in no time.
04/12/2014 (8:41 am)
Quote:4.- No direct export/support for the later 3D modeling app. (like Max/Maya 2014)
Old tread but really. Know the tools on the market to make your life easier.
Ultimate Unwrap 3D Pro will with two clicks convert any fbx(at least the older files so far) file into a .dae file with animations and everything. Even .dts if needed.
Hence if you can afford to buy software like Max of Maya 2014(also don't they come with collada exporters?) then you should be able to afford such a low cost option as Ultimate Unwrap 3D Pro.
Ultimate Unwrap 3D Pro is really a nasty evil piece of software when it comes to converting one file format to another. It does it quickly, lighting fast and without any issues in no time.
#19
04/13/2014 (7:41 am)
And all of the "later 3D modeling applications" export to COLLADA directly either natively or with a free plug-in.
#20
But their is a nice little plugin addon to Milkshape 3D that will help you export models and animations nicely to .dts format. The plugin is free and Milkshape 3D is MUCH cheaper than Houdini(as a tool that makes 3D model and export them to .dts format that is).
Edit: Try to use the already installed version in Milkshape 3D first, before downloading the newer version below(if it ain't broken don't fix it).
the latest version:
MS2DTS Exporter Plus
04/13/2014 (8:12 am)
Quote:which has no direct support for T3d's .dts graphics (I believe Houdini is the only program on the market that does support .dts directly)
But their is a nice little plugin addon to Milkshape 3D that will help you export models and animations nicely to .dts format. The plugin is free and Milkshape 3D is MUCH cheaper than Houdini(as a tool that makes 3D model and export them to .dts format that is).
Edit: Try to use the already installed version in Milkshape 3D first, before downloading the newer version below(if it ain't broken don't fix it).
the latest version:
MS2DTS Exporter Plus
Torque Owner Richard Ranft
Roostertail Games
Not possible - you have the source. If it doesn't support it, just add it.
Again - if you don't like it, change it.
It's quirky but it gets the job done just fine.
Free, fairly stable, living community (not going to say "large" or "active", but we're alive), and you get the full source code unencumbered in any way. If you don't want to pay Unity, Epic Megagames or some other company a share of your game's profits (assuming you plan to publish something) then it's a viable choice.
There are plenty of areas that need improvement - the art pipeline, cross-platform support, the renderer, the script interpreter, general cleanup and such - but all-in-all it's a f**king awesome engine and people are doing very cool things with it all the time, like this: