About T3D Steering Committee (01/2014)
by Luis Anton Rebollo · in Torque 3D Professional · 01/21/2014 (4:20 am) · 77 replies
It has created some hopelessness toward the Committee since the announcement of his halt.
The committee is made up of all of us. It is a little our fault that no one outside of GG with rights to write to the repository on Github. I myself was thinking on send an apply, but the 2 times i thought that it was not the right person.
It is clear that this is not good for the community that the official repository this so stopped.
I hope to be able to submit my application to the committee when they have time to talk, but I am sure that in the community there are people better prepared than I am.
Torque3D Committee and GREED FPS are good for the community.
The committee is made up of all of us. It is a little our fault that no one outside of GG with rights to write to the repository on Github. I myself was thinking on send an apply, but the 2 times i thought that it was not the right person.
It is clear that this is not good for the community that the official repository this so stopped.
I hope to be able to submit my application to the committee when they have time to talk, but I am sure that in the community there are people better prepared than I am.
Torque3D Committee and GREED FPS are good for the community.
About the author
I'm working on a port of Torque3D to OpenGL and Linux/SteamOS
#42
01/27/2014 (8:42 am)
Also, the offer to hand-over the T3DCE github repository to an interested group still stands. It is set up as an organization instead of single-user. Anyone can be added to one of two teams (read-only or full access), and it appears that there can be an unlimited number of owners. 
#43
I don't think t3d-bones is quite ready for primetime, and I'm waiting to see that Michael's templates are like before I evangelise one or the other. Its main lacks are editors and networking, but apparently Jeff Raab has been working on both of these (and I'm pretty sure Lukas got editors in there, too).
I'd also hold off making any more forks until we see where GG's fork is heading. The T3DCE would be a good place to bring people together, but I have my misgivings about T3D's future in the current set of forks. An initial download is nearly a gig, which is just silly, and will be even sillier if the engine should move to a more lightweight componentised system (in C++ or in scripts).
01/28/2014 (4:06 am)
I'll also repeat some information from private correspondence:I don't think t3d-bones is quite ready for primetime, and I'm waiting to see that Michael's templates are like before I evangelise one or the other. Its main lacks are editors and networking, but apparently Jeff Raab has been working on both of these (and I'm pretty sure Lukas got editors in there, too).
I'd also hold off making any more forks until we see where GG's fork is heading. The T3DCE would be a good place to bring people together, but I have my misgivings about T3D's future in the current set of forks. An initial download is nearly a gig, which is just silly, and will be even sillier if the engine should move to a more lightweight componentised system (in C++ or in scripts).
#45
This engine has a limited sized community. That's mostly because:
a) It's seen as a one trick pony. You really have to invest a lot of time and effort and know TorqueScript inside out to be able to figure out how to make a game that isn't a kind of outdated 1990s-style FPS.
b) It's seen as a one-platform pony. Any game you make in T3D does not yet have an easy way to port to consoles or mobile devices.
Splitting the community further is just going to be the nail in the coffin I feel, particularly when those splits are focusing mainly on perpetuating the "one trick" thing.
I think the best chance this engine has of surviving is going to be continued development in the main T3D repo, and open contributions by everyone to get all the cool tech people have made and plan to make together in one place, under the MIT licence.
The main thing though is that it has to become cross platform (thankfully good work already happening there), it has to be inclusive (supporting people making different sorts of games) and above all else it has to be free and open MIT licensed.
01/28/2014 (12:39 pm)
I just wanted to weigh in with my mostly-outsider opinion on this...This engine has a limited sized community. That's mostly because:
a) It's seen as a one trick pony. You really have to invest a lot of time and effort and know TorqueScript inside out to be able to figure out how to make a game that isn't a kind of outdated 1990s-style FPS.
b) It's seen as a one-platform pony. Any game you make in T3D does not yet have an easy way to port to consoles or mobile devices.
Splitting the community further is just going to be the nail in the coffin I feel, particularly when those splits are focusing mainly on perpetuating the "one trick" thing.
I think the best chance this engine has of surviving is going to be continued development in the main T3D repo, and open contributions by everyone to get all the cool tech people have made and plan to make together in one place, under the MIT licence.
The main thing though is that it has to become cross platform (thankfully good work already happening there), it has to be inclusive (supporting people making different sorts of games) and above all else it has to be free and open MIT licensed.
#46
01/28/2014 (12:51 pm)
@Monkeychops, thanks for pitching in with some outsider-views, thats invaluable! 
#47
Just look how Cocos2d-x is coming.
01/29/2014 (4:36 am)
Quote:the best chance this engine has of surviving is going to be continued development in the main T3D repo, and open contributions by everyone to get all the cool tech people have made and plan to make together in one place, under the MIT licence.I agree with Monkeychops.
Just look how Cocos2d-x is coming.
#48
They were able gradually to transform an engine from multi-platform to mono-platform. We have not seen any real improvement, even a incredible decrease of the performance. When others make progress, the T3D continues to retreat.
In my opinion, it is little left to do with the T3D. Except for a rewrite of the entire rendering system.
Until it is corrected, you will always have a mediocre engine in the hands.
This is not an attack on GG, only considerations with the test results obtained to date.
Lukas and Luis, like Daniel and others have worked hard and with great results. But I think in the end, you'll never come out with a game that can make a difference. Much less, an engine that can compete with the rest of the world.
01/29/2014 (10:07 am)
Let's face it. The Torque since it is in the hands of the "new" GG, went adrift.They were able gradually to transform an engine from multi-platform to mono-platform. We have not seen any real improvement, even a incredible decrease of the performance. When others make progress, the T3D continues to retreat.
In my opinion, it is little left to do with the T3D. Except for a rewrite of the entire rendering system.
Until it is corrected, you will always have a mediocre engine in the hands.
This is not an attack on GG, only considerations with the test results obtained to date.
Lukas and Luis, like Daniel and others have worked hard and with great results. But I think in the end, you'll never come out with a game that can make a difference. Much less, an engine that can compete with the rest of the world.
#49
If you're trying to make the next ultra-realism Modern Military FPS game, then that's probably true, but there are a lot of ways to make a game.
That said, I'm curious if you have any specific input on what the rendering portion of the engine should be like. It's pretty easy to say 'the whole thing needs to be rewritten' but that's obviously SUPER vague. Do you have any specific ideas? I'd be interested in hearing about them.
01/29/2014 (4:00 pm)
@AlfioIf you're trying to make the next ultra-realism Modern Military FPS game, then that's probably true, but there are a lot of ways to make a game.
That said, I'm curious if you have any specific input on what the rendering portion of the engine should be like. It's pretty easy to say 'the whole thing needs to be rewritten' but that's obviously SUPER vague. Do you have any specific ideas? I'd be interested in hearing about them.
#50
Several times i asked to the GG to fix parts of culling (Request not fixed)
Or fix the Mesh Culling, from 5M Poly to 1.5M Poly, and from 5549 to 968 drawcalls. From 3.6fps to 21.9fps... i think it's obvious the problem (a good culling solve everything).
Also implement some culling system on objects such as terrains and water plane(Same thread, but feature never added to the engine).
The directx relate code need also to lighten calls... (eg device flush useless... see the CE project).
The ShaderGen is great, but the generated code is very heavy to compute. Too many steps in too many ways on the render pipeline.
Remove the BL for more clean code
And more, more, and more...
For almost two years i do not follow this engine, but trying the new T3D 3.5, is little changed from this point of view.
01/29/2014 (6:43 pm)
I think is wrong going to explain here point to point, and it would be useless.Several times i asked to the GG to fix parts of culling (Request not fixed)
Or fix the Mesh Culling, from 5M Poly to 1.5M Poly, and from 5549 to 968 drawcalls. From 3.6fps to 21.9fps... i think it's obvious the problem (a good culling solve everything).
Also implement some culling system on objects such as terrains and water plane(Same thread, but feature never added to the engine).
The directx relate code need also to lighten calls... (eg device flush useless... see the CE project).
The ShaderGen is great, but the generated code is very heavy to compute. Too many steps in too many ways on the render pipeline.
Remove the BL for more clean code
And more, more, and more...
For almost two years i do not follow this engine, but trying the new T3D 3.5, is little changed from this point of view.
#51
Though I understand that you don't want to spend your time fixing all this stuff yourself.
01/29/2014 (8:41 pm)
Well the cool thing about the decision to go MIT is that you can make all these changes, publish them in your own branch, and if people like the code, they'll use it. No more need for a T3DCE-style restricted repository.Though I understand that you don't want to spend your time fixing all this stuff yourself.
#52
It was a shame that as soon as T3D went open source you disappeared from the community. It seemed like an opportune time for someone like you to step up and help shape the engine into the future.
And that was a primary reason to make T3D open source under a MIT license. Many hands make light work and all that. Unfortunately, it has been difficult to move people away from the "Wait for GarageGames to do it" mind set.
- Dave
01/29/2014 (9:57 pm)
@Alfio:It was a shame that as soon as T3D went open source you disappeared from the community. It seemed like an opportune time for someone like you to step up and help shape the engine into the future.
And that was a primary reason to make T3D open source under a MIT license. Many hands make light work and all that. Unfortunately, it has been difficult to move people away from the "Wait for GarageGames to do it" mind set.
- Dave
#53
01/30/2014 (3:01 pm)
@Dave, any approximate date for decision on new members? 
#54
01/31/2014 (9:58 am)
We reviewed the submissions yesterday and are reaching out to some other devs in addition to those we've selected from the submissions. After we hear back from them we'll be contacting people to let them know they were selected.
#55
We at Mad Otter are fans of Torque3D. We are especially fans of Eric and Dave who have been a great help.
The biggest shortcoming of T3D is that it's not on consoles and tablets. An OpenGl version would be great.
Torque3D has great networking built-in, full source, excellent tools, and a fully modern rendering engine. We had to profile and do some optimizing, but this is typical for any game. We have one successful game soon to be released in Torque3D (now running live in TGE), and the improvements are absolutely stunning.
Damon
01/31/2014 (12:39 pm)
Hello Everyone,We at Mad Otter are fans of Torque3D. We are especially fans of Eric and Dave who have been a great help.
The biggest shortcoming of T3D is that it's not on consoles and tablets. An OpenGl version would be great.
Torque3D has great networking built-in, full source, excellent tools, and a fully modern rendering engine. We had to profile and do some optimizing, but this is typical for any game. We have one successful game soon to be released in Torque3D (now running live in TGE), and the improvements are absolutely stunning.
Damon
#56
Our biggest concern right now is not having enough qualified people to help make decisions and move the engine forward. Too small of a committee puts a lot of stress on its members to test and approve/reject/rewrite Pull Requests, and general community management. If you know of anyone that would be qualified to help move T3D forward while ensuring the engine remains a stable base for all, please encourage them to step forward and send me an email. Thanks!
- Dave
02/10/2014 (11:13 am)
I've just sent out emails to everyone that has shown an interest in being a part of the new T3D community committee. Thanks to everyone who put their names forward!Our biggest concern right now is not having enough qualified people to help make decisions and move the engine forward. Too small of a committee puts a lot of stress on its members to test and approve/reject/rewrite Pull Requests, and general community management. If you know of anyone that would be qualified to help move T3D forward while ensuring the engine remains a stable base for all, please encourage them to step forward and send me an email. Thanks!
- Dave
#57
It is always great to hear when T3D is being used in a commercial project. It would really help if you put together a blog on GG.com stating exactly what you have here, and show off your game.
- Dave
02/10/2014 (11:16 am)
@Damon:It is always great to hear when T3D is being used in a commercial project. It would really help if you put together a blog on GG.com stating exactly what you have here, and show off your game.
- Dave
#58
My name is Anti Danilevski and currently I took a lead in AfterWorld project. We have invested money into it (for seven years it was developed on enthusiasm, and now it's a commercial project). So I want you, and everyone else, to know two things:
1. AfterWorld is in fullpower development again, and soon enough we will increase our team of developers;
2. We will be sharing some of the code (effects, improvements, shaders, probably tools and maybe even more complicated, low-level parts of the code) with the community;
3. I'm ready to reserve some of the work time of our lead programmer (you know him perfectly) to take care of the repository. But, of course, not a full-time. If this is acceptable, he will send you a e-mail to discuss details.
We are interested in Torque3D evolution and ready to help it evlolve. I hope there are plenty of other serious developers that would follow our example. Together, we are able improve Torque3D significantly, but it will require everyone's contribution.
Cheers,
- Anti
02/10/2014 (10:45 pm)
Hello Dave, and hello community.My name is Anti Danilevski and currently I took a lead in AfterWorld project. We have invested money into it (for seven years it was developed on enthusiasm, and now it's a commercial project). So I want you, and everyone else, to know two things:
1. AfterWorld is in fullpower development again, and soon enough we will increase our team of developers;
2. We will be sharing some of the code (effects, improvements, shaders, probably tools and maybe even more complicated, low-level parts of the code) with the community;
3. I'm ready to reserve some of the work time of our lead programmer (you know him perfectly) to take care of the repository. But, of course, not a full-time. If this is acceptable, he will send you a e-mail to discuss details.
We are interested in Torque3D evolution and ready to help it evlolve. I hope there are plenty of other serious developers that would follow our example. Together, we are able improve Torque3D significantly, but it will require everyone's contribution.
Cheers,
- Anti
#59
02/10/2014 (11:17 pm)
[wave] 
#60
02/11/2014 (2:44 am)
Yup, we are also interested and might be able to share some aspects of our terraforming engine into Torque 3D. But actual game (lifeisfeudal.com) is a priority so far of course. 
Associate Michael Hall
Distracted...