A slightly unfortunate attitude....
by Richard Ranft · in General Discussion · 07/11/2013 (2:16 pm) · 102 replies
This quote sums up neatly many posts I've been reading over the last few months:
I'm not picking on anyone in particular - this just seemed to capture the spirit of several statements that have popped up lately.
Lead, follow or get out of the way. The Steering Committee has been having trouble motivating anyone to fix almost anything, though almost everyone is ready to complain about something. There are noticeable exceptions - thank you very much to those who are actively working on fixes or improvements (whether for pride or profit). To everyone else - if you're not going to work on fixing something that bothers you then at least file an issue on GitHub and actively help whoever is working on that issue to track it down and test fixes.
Unlike the situation when GarageGames sold the engines commercially, you are all now in a position to contribute fixes. You are also no longer in a position to complain to anyone about issues - it's open source, it belongs to everyone, so fix it. If you make a cool improvement and you feel you need to charge for it go ahead, but be ready for the crazy flood of people whining about your new bugs - I guarantee there will be some.
One thing I cannot argue with from that quote is that the consequences of making these engines open source are indeed unpredictable. I, like others who were there at the time, believed that this community could pick up and move forward with the engines. I still believe it, but if you're not going to help then don't stand around and complain. Pitch in!
Everyone reading this has the ability to help in some way. Don't be afraid to lend a hand - the Steering Committee is working diligently to ensure that all of the pull requests are solid and that they fit into place snugly.
Thanks for your time. I hope no one is offended, but I also hope that more people will step forward to help find and track bugs and fixes rather than spend their time griping about them.
Quote:Off topic, however in my opinion, I could be wrong, because I am not the master of the truth, but delegate the bugs fixing and the development of a complex software as a game engine on the shoulders of his community, believe me or not, is an extremely risky decision, with unpredictable consequences, unfortunately.
I'm not picking on anyone in particular - this just seemed to capture the spirit of several statements that have popped up lately.
Lead, follow or get out of the way. The Steering Committee has been having trouble motivating anyone to fix almost anything, though almost everyone is ready to complain about something. There are noticeable exceptions - thank you very much to those who are actively working on fixes or improvements (whether for pride or profit). To everyone else - if you're not going to work on fixing something that bothers you then at least file an issue on GitHub and actively help whoever is working on that issue to track it down and test fixes.
Unlike the situation when GarageGames sold the engines commercially, you are all now in a position to contribute fixes. You are also no longer in a position to complain to anyone about issues - it's open source, it belongs to everyone, so fix it. If you make a cool improvement and you feel you need to charge for it go ahead, but be ready for the crazy flood of people whining about your new bugs - I guarantee there will be some.
One thing I cannot argue with from that quote is that the consequences of making these engines open source are indeed unpredictable. I, like others who were there at the time, believed that this community could pick up and move forward with the engines. I still believe it, but if you're not going to help then don't stand around and complain. Pitch in!
Everyone reading this has the ability to help in some way. Don't be afraid to lend a hand - the Steering Committee is working diligently to ensure that all of the pull requests are solid and that they fit into place snugly.
Thanks for your time. I hope no one is offended, but I also hope that more people will step forward to help find and track bugs and fixes rather than spend their time griping about them.
About the author
I was a soldier, then a computer technician, an electrician, a technical writer, game programmer, and now software test/tools developer. I've been a hobbyist programmer since the age of 13.
#22
They gave you two entire game engines for free. What have you given them in return?
@Stefan - <shrug> they're out there - I run across them at least twice a week. I can keep a running thread of them I suppose, but that seems counter-productive.
@Nils - Not picking on you, just pointing out that the sentiment implied in that statement is very pervasive. Didn't mean to seem like I was singling you out. I have to agree with the "programmer's engine" statement though - Torque 3D is indeed very code-intensive, in both scripting and source to get gameplay really dialed in.
I also should contribute more, but I rarely have more than a few minutes at a time. So I have decided that my best contribution is to try to help here on the forums. I have often wanted to take on the "find and fix those hundreds of silly and annoying warnings" issue - that might be suitable for my schedule....
07/12/2013 (9:46 am)
Quote:I think theres is a simple explanation for this attitude, its the attitude of garagegames towards the community.
They gave you two entire game engines for free. What have you given them in return?
@Stefan - <shrug> they're out there - I run across them at least twice a week. I can keep a running thread of them I suppose, but that seems counter-productive.
@Nils - Not picking on you, just pointing out that the sentiment implied in that statement is very pervasive. Didn't mean to seem like I was singling you out. I have to agree with the "programmer's engine" statement though - Torque 3D is indeed very code-intensive, in both scripting and source to get gameplay really dialed in.
I also should contribute more, but I rarely have more than a few minutes at a time. So I have decided that my best contribution is to try to help here on the forums. I have often wanted to take on the "find and fix those hundreds of silly and annoying warnings" issue - that might be suitable for my schedule....
#23
As soon as we invest in addons it becomes more complicated as any small changes in an AFXsomething.cpp or .h file will mean that I am working under other conditions than MIT(as far as I know). The only way I contribute by now is whenever I have an issue I let the thread stand as it is and report back when a suggested solution works or not. I also try to help people by pointing them in the right direction with searches on the forum or directly help if possible(and have the time for it).
The engine contribution is really not an option right now even though I would LOVE to make Torque 3D run on directX 10 and 11(I simply do not have the time to start such a huge project at this time). That is something I hope to be able to in the future.
07/12/2013 (9:56 am)
Well my visual Studio C++ is building... so here we go. Well I have done some changes to my project and that is all fine, but AFX is NOT MIT so I can not contribute my stuff on github, also I have not ported to MIT 3.0 as my engine MIT 2.0 do what I need it to.As soon as we invest in addons it becomes more complicated as any small changes in an AFXsomething.cpp or .h file will mean that I am working under other conditions than MIT(as far as I know). The only way I contribute by now is whenever I have an issue I let the thread stand as it is and report back when a suggested solution works or not. I also try to help people by pointing them in the right direction with searches on the forum or directly help if possible(and have the time for it).
The engine contribution is really not an option right now even though I would LOVE to make Torque 3D run on directX 10 and 11(I simply do not have the time to start such a huge project at this time). That is something I hope to be able to in the future.
#24
/Goes back to lurking in the depths of the IRC channel and poking at things related to present projects.
07/12/2013 (11:10 am)
For myself, I'll fix what I can fix when I can fix it as I run across it in production, and point out what I can point out when it comes up. The priority is, and must be, making games though. Cardboard boxes are uncomfortable./Goes back to lurking in the depths of the IRC channel and poking at things related to present projects.
#25
Right on :o)
07/12/2013 (11:15 am)
"For myself, I'll fix what I can fix when I can fix it as I run across it in production, and point out what I can point out when it comes up. The priority is, and must be, making games though."Right on :o)
#26
Oh, I've not been very active with the blogs. Thanks for the heads up!
I'm not sure about everyone else, but I have a few features (that are general enough to be usable by everyone) but I have no idea how GitHub works or what the chances are they will be integrated. I've filed a bug report once (Gui mouse stuff), but it was ignored even though I supplied a fix.
I've got a variable tick system and a culling plugin system I would like to share eventually, but they are quite large (though not very complex) and I'm not sure how feasible it would be to "merge".
07/12/2013 (2:25 pm)
Quote:
@Stefan - I think it's a lot more of constructive criticism, as well as a massive amount of suggestions for improvements. There are entire blogs and threads that turn into a laundry list of Torque shortcomings and tech suggestions, even if the original topic is not related to it. The number of people suggesting vs the number of people contributing is absurdly unbalanced. So it's not necessarily whining or "this sucks", as much as "It would be great if it had this...let me know when it's done."
Oh, I've not been very active with the blogs. Thanks for the heads up!
I'm not sure about everyone else, but I have a few features (that are general enough to be usable by everyone) but I have no idea how GitHub works or what the chances are they will be integrated. I've filed a bug report once (Gui mouse stuff), but it was ignored even though I supplied a fix.
I've got a variable tick system and a culling plugin system I would like to share eventually, but they are quite large (though not very complex) and I'm not sure how feasible it would be to "merge".
#27
'Off topic, however in my opinion, I could be wrong, because I am not the master of the truth, but delegate the bugs fixing and the development of a complex software as a game engine on the shoulders of his community, believe me or not, is an extremely risky decision, with unpredictable consequences, unfortunately.'
Yes, I wrote the quote above, which was extracted from Nils Eikelenboom's post titled 'Prefabs do not hide'.
First of all, I'm sorry, and I apologise if anyone felt himself offended by the words I wrote above, in particular, Richard Ranft, that seemed to me quite offended and nervous in this thread. Again, my apologies if you were offended, because my intention just warns the responsible for the development of the Torque 3D.
Another point mentioned a lot in this segment were the various criticisms made by people concerning Torque 3D. I know it's hard to hear criticism; nobody likes, nor I, either constructive or destructive ones; however, we must thank the people who criticize because they like the product and want to see its improvement.
Nobody finds fault what is really good, so far I've never seen anyone regretting anything because it was excellent. Something like: Damn it! I am going to sell my car or house because it is/are outstanding! or I am going to complain because this product is fantastic!
Therefore, the criticism should be heard, taken seriously and try to find a solution for them if possible, but never ignored.
In other hands, people who do not like a product, simply turn away and go looking for another product and will not waste their time with something that they have given up a long time. Therefore, the criticism should be welcomed.
Another point I would like to mention is about the freedom of expression of people in these forums. In my opinion, people should have the liberty to express themselves in a manner completely free, of course, always respecting the rules of conduct and courtesy established by direction of the forum on the issues under discussion, without suffering any kind of intimidation or harassment.
I also recognize the work and efforts of some members of this forum always trying to help people as much as possible, as well as members of the Steering Committee of the Torque 3D for their effort to improve the game engine.
I started studying the Torque 3D, nearly a year ago, when it was closed source, and with great difficulty and persistence, I managed to overcome the initial difficulties, and I'm still here, and whenever I can I am trying to help people within my knowledge and my time availability, which are few, the best possible way and always with courtesy, respect and dignity.
In my opinion, I consider Torque 3D an excellent game engine, maybe not the best one, but also it's not the worst of them, and if I make any critical or warning is because I want to see it getting better and better. And I will continue to do so, always within the rules of conduct and respect this forum, while I may do that.
Many thanks for your attention and time.
Good luck!
07/12/2013 (11:55 pm)
Hello all,'Off topic, however in my opinion, I could be wrong, because I am not the master of the truth, but delegate the bugs fixing and the development of a complex software as a game engine on the shoulders of his community, believe me or not, is an extremely risky decision, with unpredictable consequences, unfortunately.'
Yes, I wrote the quote above, which was extracted from Nils Eikelenboom's post titled 'Prefabs do not hide'.
First of all, I'm sorry, and I apologise if anyone felt himself offended by the words I wrote above, in particular, Richard Ranft, that seemed to me quite offended and nervous in this thread. Again, my apologies if you were offended, because my intention just warns the responsible for the development of the Torque 3D.
Another point mentioned a lot in this segment were the various criticisms made by people concerning Torque 3D. I know it's hard to hear criticism; nobody likes, nor I, either constructive or destructive ones; however, we must thank the people who criticize because they like the product and want to see its improvement.
Nobody finds fault what is really good, so far I've never seen anyone regretting anything because it was excellent. Something like: Damn it! I am going to sell my car or house because it is/are outstanding! or I am going to complain because this product is fantastic!
Therefore, the criticism should be heard, taken seriously and try to find a solution for them if possible, but never ignored.
In other hands, people who do not like a product, simply turn away and go looking for another product and will not waste their time with something that they have given up a long time. Therefore, the criticism should be welcomed.
Another point I would like to mention is about the freedom of expression of people in these forums. In my opinion, people should have the liberty to express themselves in a manner completely free, of course, always respecting the rules of conduct and courtesy established by direction of the forum on the issues under discussion, without suffering any kind of intimidation or harassment.
I also recognize the work and efforts of some members of this forum always trying to help people as much as possible, as well as members of the Steering Committee of the Torque 3D for their effort to improve the game engine.
I started studying the Torque 3D, nearly a year ago, when it was closed source, and with great difficulty and persistence, I managed to overcome the initial difficulties, and I'm still here, and whenever I can I am trying to help people within my knowledge and my time availability, which are few, the best possible way and always with courtesy, respect and dignity.
In my opinion, I consider Torque 3D an excellent game engine, maybe not the best one, but also it's not the worst of them, and if I make any critical or warning is because I want to see it getting better and better. And I will continue to do so, always within the rules of conduct and respect this forum, while I may do that.
Many thanks for your attention and time.
Good luck!
#28
There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism. There is also nothing wrong with requesting features. As you mentioned, this is a result of people caring about a product and wanting to see its improvement.
Here is where things break down: Who should hear this criticism, who should take it seriously, and who should find a solution?
There is no company standing behind the engines anymore, acting on criticism to improve T2D/T3D in the hopes of increasing their revenue and profit.
In an open source project, the best person to act on that criticism is the very same person that offered it - either by directly solving the issue or helping on a different issue to free up the time for another person to address it.
So yes, anyone can "care" about the engines by offering criticism but if those people really care about either T2D or T3D, then their help is needed in some way through a contribution.
07/13/2013 (3:12 am)
Hi Joao,There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism. There is also nothing wrong with requesting features. As you mentioned, this is a result of people caring about a product and wanting to see its improvement.
Quote:Therefore, the criticism should be heard, taken seriously and try to find a solution for them if possible, but never ignored.
Here is where things break down: Who should hear this criticism, who should take it seriously, and who should find a solution?
There is no company standing behind the engines anymore, acting on criticism to improve T2D/T3D in the hopes of increasing their revenue and profit.
In an open source project, the best person to act on that criticism is the very same person that offered it - either by directly solving the issue or helping on a different issue to free up the time for another person to address it.
So yes, anyone can "care" about the engines by offering criticism but if those people really care about either T2D or T3D, then their help is needed in some way through a contribution.
#29
I have been planning to make a game for quite some time. Couple of years or so. I tried a lot of different things before I chose to go along with T3D. During the years a lot of things happened with GG. I went for the great deal to buy the Pro version for only a $100 after GG's dip. I did compare licences and found that UDK would cut too much from the revenues and Unity Pro was 15 times as expensive as T3D. So I went along with 1.1, accepting the license and therefore had an agreement with GG. After lots of experimenting, bug fixing, changing and struggling to create the time and resources (you all know how that is!) 1.2 came out! I bought it and ported what I had, trying to get rid of some issues (meshroads etc). A part of those issues remained and never got fixed until this day. Not very long after 1.2 came the announcement of the release of 2.0 with an entirely different licence. With 1.2 I already started developing a game and in the past year managed to elvolve it pretty well already. I didn't port the project to 2.0, so untill now, the old licence is still applied if I would publish the game today. The reason why I'm writing all this, is because I bought software with the understanding that if needed, I would have support. And if there are issues, the party I bought it from will try to help me fix it or help to resolve these issues. I was affraid that after 2.0 came out, I wouldn't receive any support. Yet the community has helped me a lot so 3rd parties were the ones who gave that support. This is not an complaint towards GG. I understand the difficulties of continuing business and drastic steps you sometimes need to make. to protect continuation. Though I'm not affraid to point out that with actions in the past also comes responsibilities for the future. It's not all gone by releasing new versions under an MIT licence. But you know that better then I do so I won't go further on this subject. I don't want to sound like a wining customer and I will probably have to switch to the new licence anyway.
I will contribute to the T3D community for 2 reasons; 1st of all to give back what has been given. All the effort and time sone of you have given, small or big contributions, my deep respect for you, no one excluded. 2nd is it utterly important for me that T3D remains to be an attractive engine with a good name. I'm pretty far with 1st stage my project and almost ready to start looking for funding or investments. With that it needs more people, and they should have confidence in T3D as well. We also should listen to the critics and except any kind of evolvement; even without concrete contributions. I'm not going to make contributions because symply of MIT, it's fun to do, makes me feel good or somebody tells me to do so.
07/13/2013 (7:37 am)
I'm not a good writer and limited to a mobile phone isn't helpful either.I have been planning to make a game for quite some time. Couple of years or so. I tried a lot of different things before I chose to go along with T3D. During the years a lot of things happened with GG. I went for the great deal to buy the Pro version for only a $100 after GG's dip. I did compare licences and found that UDK would cut too much from the revenues and Unity Pro was 15 times as expensive as T3D. So I went along with 1.1, accepting the license and therefore had an agreement with GG. After lots of experimenting, bug fixing, changing and struggling to create the time and resources (you all know how that is!) 1.2 came out! I bought it and ported what I had, trying to get rid of some issues (meshroads etc). A part of those issues remained and never got fixed until this day. Not very long after 1.2 came the announcement of the release of 2.0 with an entirely different licence. With 1.2 I already started developing a game and in the past year managed to elvolve it pretty well already. I didn't port the project to 2.0, so untill now, the old licence is still applied if I would publish the game today. The reason why I'm writing all this, is because I bought software with the understanding that if needed, I would have support. And if there are issues, the party I bought it from will try to help me fix it or help to resolve these issues. I was affraid that after 2.0 came out, I wouldn't receive any support. Yet the community has helped me a lot so 3rd parties were the ones who gave that support. This is not an complaint towards GG. I understand the difficulties of continuing business and drastic steps you sometimes need to make. to protect continuation. Though I'm not affraid to point out that with actions in the past also comes responsibilities for the future. It's not all gone by releasing new versions under an MIT licence. But you know that better then I do so I won't go further on this subject. I don't want to sound like a wining customer and I will probably have to switch to the new licence anyway.
I will contribute to the T3D community for 2 reasons; 1st of all to give back what has been given. All the effort and time sone of you have given, small or big contributions, my deep respect for you, no one excluded. 2nd is it utterly important for me that T3D remains to be an attractive engine with a good name. I'm pretty far with 1st stage my project and almost ready to start looking for funding or investments. With that it needs more people, and they should have confidence in T3D as well. We also should listen to the critics and except any kind of evolvement; even without concrete contributions. I'm not going to make contributions because symply of MIT, it's fun to do, makes me feel good or somebody tells me to do so.
#30
@Richard; I know it wasn't personally. You have contributed a lot and therefore you have my respect and gratitude. I believe Joao has good intentions and really made contributions like the vid about prefabs. After seeing the qoute I couldn't just keep quiet.
1/2 of my years go into projects that bring in the cash (graphic design). Good luck with your job and don't be grumpy; bad for your health!
Joao; please don't be offended by this. I thank you for trying to help me out, even with a video about that specific subject. I believe it's one of many ways to make a contribution. Continue your project and let me know if you need any help.
07/13/2013 (7:41 am)
I have put my trust in GG and T3D and put a lot of effort and time in this project. I also need to ensure continuation; time is money and money is food on the table. Hopefully we can all profit from it in time, money or happiness or whatever one is searching...@Richard; I know it wasn't personally. You have contributed a lot and therefore you have my respect and gratitude. I believe Joao has good intentions and really made contributions like the vid about prefabs. After seeing the qoute I couldn't just keep quiet.
1/2 of my years go into projects that bring in the cash (graphic design). Good luck with your job and don't be grumpy; bad for your health!
Joao; please don't be offended by this. I thank you for trying to help me out, even with a video about that specific subject. I believe it's one of many ways to make a contribution. Continue your project and let me know if you need any help.
#32
I know if I had a hobby that annoyed me I would probably find another hobby :)
That said, I don't really know what this thread is about... is it because
users are asking for features, or pointing out bugs in a way that is irritating to some of the elite members here ?
Yes I understand the open source principle, but also know that a large majority of T3D users are not comfortable with using git hub, or perhaps don't believe their contributions are "professional" enough to put forward.
I'm not a great programmer, am more of an artist, but can find my way around code when I have too. And I don't feel I'm anyway near the same level of expertise as some of our major contributors here, and that is sort of intimidating (being honest here).
To me the best way for everyone to accomplish making their game ( there I said it.. MAKING A GAME !) is to work together, utilising the skills of each individual, and I believe the best place to discuss this is on the forums, not in the git-hub.
What can I offer ? well I guess that would be modelling advise, optimization, uvmapping and lightmapping using PureLight.
(Note: I'm a 3Ds MAX user, not got any time with other 3D products, except a bit of ZBrush).
I also offer money !! by that I mean I have bought many art packs from both GG and members here, along with other great addons from the community.
Time (lack there of), as I guess is the same for most of us, is a factor though :(
Cummon guys and gals, lets start making games.. and be HAPPY :D
Hewster
07/14/2013 (8:40 am)
Hmm.. I thought hobbiest game development was supposed to be fun ?I know if I had a hobby that annoyed me I would probably find another hobby :)
That said, I don't really know what this thread is about... is it because
users are asking for features, or pointing out bugs in a way that is irritating to some of the elite members here ?
Yes I understand the open source principle, but also know that a large majority of T3D users are not comfortable with using git hub, or perhaps don't believe their contributions are "professional" enough to put forward.
I'm not a great programmer, am more of an artist, but can find my way around code when I have too. And I don't feel I'm anyway near the same level of expertise as some of our major contributors here, and that is sort of intimidating (being honest here).
To me the best way for everyone to accomplish making their game ( there I said it.. MAKING A GAME !) is to work together, utilising the skills of each individual, and I believe the best place to discuss this is on the forums, not in the git-hub.
What can I offer ? well I guess that would be modelling advise, optimization, uvmapping and lightmapping using PureLight.
(Note: I'm a 3Ds MAX user, not got any time with other 3D products, except a bit of ZBrush).
I also offer money !! by that I mean I have bought many art packs from both GG and members here, along with other great addons from the community.
Time (lack there of), as I guess is the same for most of us, is a factor though :(
Cummon guys and gals, lets start making games.. and be HAPPY :D
Hewster
#33
;)
07/14/2013 (8:51 am)
Quote:Madness! Madness I say!
I thought hobbiest game development was supposed to be fun ?
;)
#34
It would help if The List (of requested features, someone help me out with a link) were better advertised.
I'll freely admit that my attitude is probably not the most productive - "if you don't like it, change it." It's how I raised my kids ("Dad, I don't want that for dinner..." "Ok, go make your own.") Is it right? Probably not. But this is where my general position comes from - I'm not trying to be mean or insulting. Each of us has different priorities when it comes to fixes or improvements - I work on what is at the top of my list, you work on what's at the top of your list. Hopefully there is some overlap of interest.
07/14/2013 (10:29 am)
@Joao - I didn't mean to imply that suggestions should be cast aside. I've seen your posts and your contributions through the forums are terrific. What I was saying is that the engine belongs to all of us and that we, as a community now have responsibility for the engine. And I don't think this is a bad thing. As you said, though - it is most definitely unpredictable.It would help if The List (of requested features, someone help me out with a link) were better advertised.
I'll freely admit that my attitude is probably not the most productive - "if you don't like it, change it." It's how I raised my kids ("Dad, I don't want that for dinner..." "Ok, go make your own.") Is it right? Probably not. But this is where my general position comes from - I'm not trying to be mean or insulting. Each of us has different priorities when it comes to fixes or improvements - I work on what is at the top of my list, you work on what's at the top of your list. Hopefully there is some overlap of interest.
#35
games plenty of them, will help Torque, not being grumpy or anything like it.
07/14/2013 (10:57 am)
Program mode initiated... Logging in... Ladies and gentlemen we encourage all to use this forum... Help mode initiated... Question and Answer mode initiated... Innovation box created... Question and Answer arrays inserted... Gentle brain massage sound prepared... RTFM programming sound ready please click hereRTFM
User now ready to create games and not grumpy... Program mode terminated... Logging out...
games plenty of them, will help Torque, not being grumpy or anything like it.
#36
I understand that sometimes under strong emotions or pressures, caused by several reasons; any person may speak, write or commit undue or offensive actions, is part of human nature. However, actions might also generate many different consequences.
I also understand that people in these forums may disagree freely in the field of their ideas and that the understanding and cooperation might only be achieved using the reason and good will of the interlocutors, otherwise is to try to impose a faith at all cost.
For me, the subject of this thread it is a closed case and with no resentment on my part.
Let's move!
Greetings,
07/14/2013 (4:09 pm)
@Richard Ranft,I understand that sometimes under strong emotions or pressures, caused by several reasons; any person may speak, write or commit undue or offensive actions, is part of human nature. However, actions might also generate many different consequences.
I also understand that people in these forums may disagree freely in the field of their ideas and that the understanding and cooperation might only be achieved using the reason and good will of the interlocutors, otherwise is to try to impose a faith at all cost.
For me, the subject of this thread it is a closed case and with no resentment on my part.
Let's move!
Greetings,
#37
Haha. That's been my attitude forever. (eccept..if my kids didn't want that for dinner, go without.)
07/21/2013 (9:57 am)
[quote=Richard Ranft]"if you don't like it, change it." It's how I raised my kids ("Dad, I don't want that for dinner..." "Ok, go make your own.")[/quote]Haha. That's been my attitude forever. (eccept..if my kids didn't want that for dinner, go without.)
#38
At our house we tell our two kids to try to taste it first, and if you do not like it then we will find a solution where all parts are happy. It works out very well :o)
I guess telling a three years old son making his own food is not going to work out so well so I guess we make what he likes and try to expose him for many new tastes and food concepts :o)
Also I know that Ranft means it well and yes this forum do have some grumpers here and there.
07/21/2013 (10:10 am)
Quote:"Dad, I don't want that for dinner..." "Ok, go make your own.
At our house we tell our two kids to try to taste it first, and if you do not like it then we will find a solution where all parts are happy. It works out very well :o)
I guess telling a three years old son making his own food is not going to work out so well so I guess we make what he likes and try to expose him for many new tastes and food concepts :o)
Also I know that Ranft means it well and yes this forum do have some grumpers here and there.
#39
07/21/2013 (3:30 pm)
There must be loads of people who bought Torque with the sole intention of making a game. They didn't sign up to support a cause like some sort of weird charity.
#40
But now that it's free and in the hands of the community it's up to the community to make the fixes and changes, not Garage Games. They're now more like a stabilizer than a motor - no longer the driving force.
Rather than think of it as a "weird charity" (made me chuckle - I like that) think of it more as a social experiment. Can we pull together as a community and knock the rust off of the Torque engines? And as for the "weird charity" part - poke around in the forums; you'll find spots here and there where I and many, many others have been weirdly charitable....
I think that we can do this. All of you guys are bright and everyone has something to offer, even if it's not Super Ultra Megatastic Coding Powers. Art advice, little things that help you be more efficient or ways to approach problems that just work better - these are all helpful (and thanks, by the way, to everyone who has ever contributed to finding a solution to any Torque problem ever).
07/21/2013 (8:20 pm)
I bought it to make a game - but I also bought it to learn about making games.But now that it's free and in the hands of the community it's up to the community to make the fixes and changes, not Garage Games. They're now more like a stabilizer than a motor - no longer the driving force.
Rather than think of it as a "weird charity" (made me chuckle - I like that) think of it more as a social experiment. Can we pull together as a community and knock the rust off of the Torque engines? And as for the "weird charity" part - poke around in the forums; you'll find spots here and there where I and many, many others have been weirdly charitable....
I think that we can do this. All of you guys are bright and everyone has something to offer, even if it's not Super Ultra Megatastic Coding Powers. Art advice, little things that help you be more efficient or ways to approach problems that just work better - these are all helpful (and thanks, by the way, to everyone who has ever contributed to finding a solution to any Torque problem ever).
Employee Michael Perry
ZombieShortbus
1. Pull request containing code changes
2. Pull request containing art changes
3. Writing documentation, be it reference or tutorial.
4. Weigh in on others' contributions
Oh man, I can't emphasize how important 3 and 4 are. At any point, you can review the open issues for each engine on the GitHub pages. Someone will submit a pull request containing a bug fix or an improvement, then no one weighs in. Seriously, it is a huge help to the committee if someone reviews the pull request. Does it fix the bug? Is the improvement worth merging into the core repo? Are there stability problems? Can you add to the pull request to make it even better?
Documentation. What's my old quote? Oh yeah:
I developed that quote after several years working on Torque documentation. Do you know how I started writing documentation? I figured out how to do something in the engine, saved the code, then wrote instructions on how to use it. It can be as simple as how to use SimSets in TorqueScript. It can be as detailed and complex as the RTS guide Richard has been improving.
You can even add on to existing documentation. Point out errors or outdated material. Provide the text or updated images. It's really easy and supremely helpful.
You do not have to be an expert to contribute to the engines.