Just FYI... Even CryTek is Trying to overcome the 'This engine is FPS only' issue
by Ron Kapaun · in Torque 3D Professional · 07/03/2013 (2:32 pm) · 21 replies
Just a quick note to say that even large companies like CryTek are struggling with similar issues T3D is. They cancelled a project similar to 'The Last of Us' Back in 2012. Here is a short video showing what was finished;
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From what I can gather, they cancelled it for three reasons, the last of which was made public;
1. Too similar (visually) to Alan Wake. (I personally don't see that)
2. Too similar to a FPS version of 'The Last of Us'.
3. They wanted to do something 'NOT FPS'. To show off that the engine is capable of more than per-conceived notions. AKA (CryEngine is only a FPS engine).
So, we can take a bit of pride from this, once again, we face similar issues to a leader in the industry.
Ron
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From what I can gather, they cancelled it for three reasons, the last of which was made public;
1. Too similar (visually) to Alan Wake. (I personally don't see that)
2. Too similar to a FPS version of 'The Last of Us'.
3. They wanted to do something 'NOT FPS'. To show off that the engine is capable of more than per-conceived notions. AKA (CryEngine is only a FPS engine).
So, we can take a bit of pride from this, once again, we face similar issues to a leader in the industry.
Ron
About the author
Guy that has been with Torque Game Engines since... well, since here was a Torque Game Engine. (V12 and beyond).
#2
i believe that just corp (business guys) ppl
decide if a game gets made or not
and those are usually the ones that don`t even play games
and hey Ron
now i see some potential for improvement regarding your ruins setup ;)
07/03/2013 (8:05 pm)
same here tbhi believe that just corp (business guys) ppl
decide if a game gets made or not
and those are usually the ones that don`t even play games
and hey Ron
now i see some potential for improvement regarding your ruins setup ;)
#3
Wow, what a good-looking scenario the game shown in that video has, sorry that it was not completed. This is proof that beautiful scenery and graphics requirement is not enough to make a successful video game and also that a high-end game engine itself does not guarantee prosperous game production.
By the way, I do not know why some people have prejudice about FPS genre games. I have seen in many forums out there, people doing heavy criticism of torque 3D and torque game engine, among other things by the fact that it is a game engine for making FPS genre games.
So, I wonder why the other genres of games would be more important? After all, people buy video games to have fun times, and if they get it, the genre of the game is of little importance at all (my opinion though).
Furthermore, I believe that with a decent team of well skilled programmers in torque script and C++ , as well as, along with good graphic artists, including animators, sound technicians, writers and a budget equal to the big game houses, T3D can produce any genre of games, the same way CryEngine 3 or any other out there.
On the other hand, for a modest indie developer, with a one-man army just to do everything from the story up to sell the product, perhaps the game fps genre be the option less difficult to create a video game.
Once again, I lament that the game in the video above has not been successful; it is always sad to see a great work, money and the most valuable of all assets called time, being wasted for nothing.
Greetings,
07/03/2013 (9:13 pm)
Hi all,Wow, what a good-looking scenario the game shown in that video has, sorry that it was not completed. This is proof that beautiful scenery and graphics requirement is not enough to make a successful video game and also that a high-end game engine itself does not guarantee prosperous game production.
By the way, I do not know why some people have prejudice about FPS genre games. I have seen in many forums out there, people doing heavy criticism of torque 3D and torque game engine, among other things by the fact that it is a game engine for making FPS genre games.
So, I wonder why the other genres of games would be more important? After all, people buy video games to have fun times, and if they get it, the genre of the game is of little importance at all (my opinion though).
Furthermore, I believe that with a decent team of well skilled programmers in torque script and C++ , as well as, along with good graphic artists, including animators, sound technicians, writers and a budget equal to the big game houses, T3D can produce any genre of games, the same way CryEngine 3 or any other out there.
On the other hand, for a modest indie developer, with a one-man army just to do everything from the story up to sell the product, perhaps the game fps genre be the option less difficult to create a video game.
Once again, I lament that the game in the video above has not been successful; it is always sad to see a great work, money and the most valuable of all assets called time, being wasted for nothing.
Greetings,
#4
07/03/2013 (9:17 pm)
We've already shown that T3D can make a RTS pretty easily.
#5
07/04/2013 (3:40 am)
Ops wrong thread... Sorry.
#6
Basically, people who can't program believe that an engine is defined by its games - that Torque is a "FPS engine" because that's what has been made with it. They don't understand that the engine isn't the game and that having the source code means that your game is customizable in ways that they can't even imagine.
Admittedly, Torque is set up from the get-go to support FPS games very extensively so making something else is more work. This is where people new to making games in general will make that statement as well - "Wow, T3D is a FPS engine! It takes so much work to do anything else with it!" But making a game is a lot of work and no matter what you start with and what you want to make this will be true. Just imagine how much more work it would be without a game engine to build on....
Dwarf King makes my final point very concisely: The time it takes to adapt T3D to your particular game is far shorter than the time it takes to build an equivalent engine from scratch. It's probably also about the same as making your game on any of the other available engines out there with one big advantage - you have the source and can add engine functionality to support your game. This is something you can't do with most of the other full engines out there.
07/04/2013 (8:24 am)
I remember Hinterland!Basically, people who can't program believe that an engine is defined by its games - that Torque is a "FPS engine" because that's what has been made with it. They don't understand that the engine isn't the game and that having the source code means that your game is customizable in ways that they can't even imagine.
Admittedly, Torque is set up from the get-go to support FPS games very extensively so making something else is more work. This is where people new to making games in general will make that statement as well - "Wow, T3D is a FPS engine! It takes so much work to do anything else with it!" But making a game is a lot of work and no matter what you start with and what you want to make this will be true. Just imagine how much more work it would be without a game engine to build on....
Dwarf King makes my final point very concisely: The time it takes to adapt T3D to your particular game is far shorter than the time it takes to build an equivalent engine from scratch. It's probably also about the same as making your game on any of the other available engines out there with one big advantage - you have the source and can add engine functionality to support your game. This is something you can't do with most of the other full engines out there.
#7
07/04/2013 (11:36 am)
The thing may be, that the companies that do some different game with an engine usually do not open source it, so everyone who grabs the engine starts with the FPS-Template they were released with and so the only thing they can do with it for the start are FPS games, otherwise good programming skills are needed to change the game mechanism, but most people do not have the skill or time to change it all. 
#8
I have always thought T3D should have at least 2 templates as standard, the RTS tutorial could be extended and made into a template, that would give people a choice at least.
07/04/2013 (1:07 pm)
Duion has a point, if you get an engine and all it has is a FPS template and you're not hot on programming, even if you're a good programmer if you have never used that script before you're likely to start with a FPS to learn.I have always thought T3D should have at least 2 templates as standard, the RTS tutorial could be extended and made into a template, that would give people a choice at least.
#9
I'm still saying that even if you are a good programmer, and artist, and sound engineer, and designer (because if you're working by yourself you must be all of these things to make a game) there is still a ton of work. Even with a starter template for every possible genre available there is still a massive volume of work to do in all disciplines to make a full game. Having all of those templates may help to get rid of the "FPS Engine" stigma but I'm sure someone will then turn around and say "it's not focused" or some other tag that is equally inaccurate.
07/04/2013 (5:22 pm)
I'll bite. And since the RTS and Adventure game types are very similar we could add an Adventure Template. See the tutorial in the docs.I'm still saying that even if you are a good programmer, and artist, and sound engineer, and designer (because if you're working by yourself you must be all of these things to make a game) there is still a ton of work. Even with a starter template for every possible genre available there is still a massive volume of work to do in all disciplines to make a full game. Having all of those templates may help to get rid of the "FPS Engine" stigma but I'm sure someone will then turn around and say "it's not focused" or some other tag that is equally inaccurate.
#10
Also to be slightly contentious, there are thing added to the engine that are very much first person centric rather than generic. The point is that the fps template notwithstanding it is very much easier to make an FPS type game than any other game type.
There are a bunch of purchasable kits that "convert" the engine to different genres
The AFX system despite claims to avoid the stereotyping converts to a 'common style' RPG.
The 3DAAK adds extra features and allows you to create more puzzle based RPGs like zelda or darkside.
I'll apologise now and state that i haven't followed the work you guys have been doing on the RTS project, but i doid follow the original guide way back when and created a mini RTS based purely on the tutorial in the docs, so that potential has always been there.
As somebody who clearly has nothing better to do than armchair develop, it seems simple enough to create separate git projects to make a variety of starter projects.
My plan involves a basic RPG template project, originally this was to be a 'product' but increasingly i'm considering this to be a more useful community resource as an RPG starter kit now that the original one hosted here has gone missing. Again it seems to me that somebody somewhere has made a game of xyz type for torque and could rip that down to a basic framework as a template.
07/05/2013 (9:52 am)
It was said many moons ago that there should be starter kits for many other genres.Also to be slightly contentious, there are thing added to the engine that are very much first person centric rather than generic. The point is that the fps template notwithstanding it is very much easier to make an FPS type game than any other game type.
There are a bunch of purchasable kits that "convert" the engine to different genres
The AFX system despite claims to avoid the stereotyping converts to a 'common style' RPG.
The 3DAAK adds extra features and allows you to create more puzzle based RPGs like zelda or darkside.
I'll apologise now and state that i haven't followed the work you guys have been doing on the RTS project, but i doid follow the original guide way back when and created a mini RTS based purely on the tutorial in the docs, so that potential has always been there.
As somebody who clearly has nothing better to do than armchair develop, it seems simple enough to create separate git projects to make a variety of starter projects.
My plan involves a basic RPG template project, originally this was to be a 'product' but increasingly i'm considering this to be a more useful community resource as an RPG starter kit now that the original one hosted here has gone missing. Again it seems to me that somebody somewhere has made a game of xyz type for torque and could rip that down to a basic framework as a template.
#11
As a developer, do I give my work and research away to the core project or do I try to support myself with my research and skill set? I have literally dozens and dozens of things that I could add to the MIT version of T3D and they would benefit the engine as core features.
The problem boils down to this; I spend dozens and dozens of hours (this is no joke, and anyone who knows me can probably attest to this) working this stuff out. Bug tracking, error hunting, and generally making sure any features I work on meet my personal (and I feel) high standards. Keep in mind, I view myself not as just an Artist, but a technical artist. This means I spend my time making things look and behave correctly in engine. Be it through art or scripts or even core engine changes. Now, I am all about supporting the community. I firmly believe that if the community does well then I as a developer do well. However, when does my sense of community support effect me negatively as a 'game engine developer'?
This is a question I have been struggling with over last several weeks. I am nearly 100% certain I am NOT the only dev that feels this way. (Though I am probably the more vocal of the bunch). When I started this little endeavor, T3D was a paid product and it was generally accepted that certain features could be add-ons and features that were purchased to enhance the engine. When I found out this engine was going MIT (and I found out a little bit prior to everyone else.) I did not know if this was good for development or bad. After a couple of weeks and a lot of thought, I decided I needed to help guide the direction that T3D was going so, I offered to join the MIT group. This was an AMAZING experience! The first thing I found out was how much I did NOT know about the engine. I literally spent weeks 'catching up'. Most of you know this already so I skip now to the point.
Isn't that extra knowledge and effort on my part worth something? Even if the base engine is free, do I give away everything because it's expected, and the engine is free anyway? I work hard to 'stand out' and learn new ways to do things.
07/05/2013 (5:39 pm)
Yes, there are 'kits' that help with preset conditions. I should know, I have more than a couple in various stages of 'finished'. This includes RTS, ISO-metric (diablo type games) and even an as yet 'non-public' 3rd person adventure set (similar to Tomb Raider). Do we need more 'templates'. Yes, I fully agree we do. However.....As a developer, do I give my work and research away to the core project or do I try to support myself with my research and skill set? I have literally dozens and dozens of things that I could add to the MIT version of T3D and they would benefit the engine as core features.
The problem boils down to this; I spend dozens and dozens of hours (this is no joke, and anyone who knows me can probably attest to this) working this stuff out. Bug tracking, error hunting, and generally making sure any features I work on meet my personal (and I feel) high standards. Keep in mind, I view myself not as just an Artist, but a technical artist. This means I spend my time making things look and behave correctly in engine. Be it through art or scripts or even core engine changes. Now, I am all about supporting the community. I firmly believe that if the community does well then I as a developer do well. However, when does my sense of community support effect me negatively as a 'game engine developer'?
This is a question I have been struggling with over last several weeks. I am nearly 100% certain I am NOT the only dev that feels this way. (Though I am probably the more vocal of the bunch). When I started this little endeavor, T3D was a paid product and it was generally accepted that certain features could be add-ons and features that were purchased to enhance the engine. When I found out this engine was going MIT (and I found out a little bit prior to everyone else.) I did not know if this was good for development or bad. After a couple of weeks and a lot of thought, I decided I needed to help guide the direction that T3D was going so, I offered to join the MIT group. This was an AMAZING experience! The first thing I found out was how much I did NOT know about the engine. I literally spent weeks 'catching up'. Most of you know this already so I skip now to the point.
Isn't that extra knowledge and effort on my part worth something? Even if the base engine is free, do I give away everything because it's expected, and the engine is free anyway? I work hard to 'stand out' and learn new ways to do things.
#12
With regards to the RTS tutorial... honestly, in my opinion, mine is better in many aspects. I took what was presented in the tutorial and because I knew things at a slightly deeper level, I was able to improve on what was done. This is NOT bragging or anything. It's about experience. Now, if we add the RTS as a template... do we add the base tutorial? Sure, sounds good since it is available as a public resource. Do I add in my changes and additions because I found some more efficient ways to do things? This is my problem.... I don't know. In game dev, we ALL stand on the shoulders of Giants. In this case, I could not have pulled off what I did without Richard Ranft's initial work. (Seriously, this guy is a Pro Torque dude if ever there was one) At the same time, what I have done with his base idea was build off of it and make it run more efficiently, and a bit more effectively. Now, he is NOT the only one. I used the recast stuff by Daniel, the base AI code from Mark Holcomb (most of you new guys probably don't know who he is, but back in the day he was my 'go to guy' for AI) and on top of all that I personally tweeked the render side of things to make it all possible from a milliseconds per frame POV.
Now, since I built my version on top of these guy's shoulders, do I release it or, do I charge for it? I am leaning toward charging since none of the contributions work without someone pulling it all together. Would it be expensive? No... at least not in my opinion. It should be designed and released so that a kid with just a paper route could afford it.
Since T3D and even T2D went MIT, I see many people asking 'Will feature X or Y be added to the base features or next release'? It's the one thing I have been thinking about ever since I knew these engines were going open source. What do I or any other 'serious developer' do?
Honestly, if everything 'should be free because the core is MIT' then I walk away. I hope I am not the only developer that feels that way but, I can focus my same effort and energy into another engine where my dedication and focus is rewarded rather than criticized.
Let's look at one other aspect, (yes I know this is a HUGE post...sorry) What is STOPPING everyone from building on what is presented? If you need an RTS template....why not build it for yourself? (I know, I know, 'I don't know how..') Well, heck neither did I until I took the time to learn it. We have the code, we have the scripts and honestly, NONE of it is that complex. Anyway, that is my thoughts on adding templates and whatnot.... If you don't agree, that's cool. If you understand where I am coming from, that's cool too. Not trying to start any arguments, just trying to change the notions of why we choose to use these engines.
Ron
07/05/2013 (5:40 pm)
Continued....With regards to the RTS tutorial... honestly, in my opinion, mine is better in many aspects. I took what was presented in the tutorial and because I knew things at a slightly deeper level, I was able to improve on what was done. This is NOT bragging or anything. It's about experience. Now, if we add the RTS as a template... do we add the base tutorial? Sure, sounds good since it is available as a public resource. Do I add in my changes and additions because I found some more efficient ways to do things? This is my problem.... I don't know. In game dev, we ALL stand on the shoulders of Giants. In this case, I could not have pulled off what I did without Richard Ranft's initial work. (Seriously, this guy is a Pro Torque dude if ever there was one) At the same time, what I have done with his base idea was build off of it and make it run more efficiently, and a bit more effectively. Now, he is NOT the only one. I used the recast stuff by Daniel, the base AI code from Mark Holcomb (most of you new guys probably don't know who he is, but back in the day he was my 'go to guy' for AI) and on top of all that I personally tweeked the render side of things to make it all possible from a milliseconds per frame POV.
Now, since I built my version on top of these guy's shoulders, do I release it or, do I charge for it? I am leaning toward charging since none of the contributions work without someone pulling it all together. Would it be expensive? No... at least not in my opinion. It should be designed and released so that a kid with just a paper route could afford it.
Since T3D and even T2D went MIT, I see many people asking 'Will feature X or Y be added to the base features or next release'? It's the one thing I have been thinking about ever since I knew these engines were going open source. What do I or any other 'serious developer' do?
Honestly, if everything 'should be free because the core is MIT' then I walk away. I hope I am not the only developer that feels that way but, I can focus my same effort and energy into another engine where my dedication and focus is rewarded rather than criticized.
Let's look at one other aspect, (yes I know this is a HUGE post...sorry) What is STOPPING everyone from building on what is presented? If you need an RTS template....why not build it for yourself? (I know, I know, 'I don't know how..') Well, heck neither did I until I took the time to learn it. We have the code, we have the scripts and honestly, NONE of it is that complex. Anyway, that is my thoughts on adding templates and whatnot.... If you don't agree, that's cool. If you understand where I am coming from, that's cool too. Not trying to start any arguments, just trying to change the notions of why we choose to use these engines.
Ron
#13
But you have to be willing to put in the time and effort. If you're not willing to do that, then take your butt on out of here because TANSTAAFL baby. Either you pay in money or you pay in time and brainsweat, there ain't no other way.
Even if I gave everything I know away for free it won't drop into your game without effort. It is not possible. You have to see how it works, understand how it will fit into what you have and then tailor it to your needs. This is unavoidable.
@Ron - I'm glad you took the time and improved on that RTS prototype (I think Mich put it together originally - I just got it running with 1.2 and put a little added polish on it thanks to Steve). I left many things as exercises for the reader....
07/05/2013 (6:22 pm)
I think people can contribute templates if they like. I also think people should sell what they feel they should sell. If someone doesn't want to buy something then they can make it themselves - I dare anyone to say that they can't get help with this stuff here!But you have to be willing to put in the time and effort. If you're not willing to do that, then take your butt on out of here because TANSTAAFL baby. Either you pay in money or you pay in time and brainsweat, there ain't no other way.
Even if I gave everything I know away for free it won't drop into your game without effort. It is not possible. You have to see how it works, understand how it will fit into what you have and then tailor it to your needs. This is unavoidable.
@Ron - I'm glad you took the time and improved on that RTS prototype (I think Mich put it together originally - I just got it running with 1.2 and put a little added polish on it thanks to Steve). I left many things as exercises for the reader....
#14
I agree with you. Put up or shutup :-) Effort is the thing, even if we make the greatest templates in the world, they are still templates. What are you as a developer going to do to step up and move beyond what everyone with an account can produce?
By the way, I ment what I said. You are a pro at this stuff and the rest of us stand on the shoulders of guys like you (yes I know Mich did the original stuff... you made it work in the latest version though) in an effort to improve things. Thanks for the encouragement but, I will make sure EVERYONE knows I could not have done what I did without your initial efforts. Again, this feeds into my 'massive' post, since it's not all mine, how do I handle that as an end product? My more 'human' side will release it as a standard MIT improvement. In the end though, I will question that from a business standpoint. If that makes sense.
Ron
07/05/2013 (6:49 pm)
Richard,I agree with you. Put up or shutup :-) Effort is the thing, even if we make the greatest templates in the world, they are still templates. What are you as a developer going to do to step up and move beyond what everyone with an account can produce?
By the way, I ment what I said. You are a pro at this stuff and the rest of us stand on the shoulders of guys like you (yes I know Mich did the original stuff... you made it work in the latest version though) in an effort to improve things. Thanks for the encouragement but, I will make sure EVERYONE knows I could not have done what I did without your initial efforts. Again, this feeds into my 'massive' post, since it's not all mine, how do I handle that as an end product? My more 'human' side will release it as a standard MIT improvement. In the end though, I will question that from a business standpoint. If that makes sense.
Ron
#15
I think you're too worried about this - your work is good and I feel that everything you've put out has been for a better than fair price.
I wouldn't turn down a mention in the credits.... lol
07/05/2013 (10:15 pm)
Well, my opinion is that if you invested time and effort you should expect to get something for it. Technically, 95% of the work that I did on that RTS doc was on company time, so I was paid.I think you're too worried about this - your work is good and I feel that everything you've put out has been for a better than fair price.
I wouldn't turn down a mention in the credits.... lol
#16
I think it would be great if we had all the templates and maybe people made art packs that fit in with it all. But you had to do too much ground work to get it working.
This is where the community buyouts come in I think. Maybe a toned down template is migrated in to T3D as MIT and the cost is somewhat paid off and your extra art content and examples that fit in to it are sold as a pack?
However I really want to see more T3D focused content packs available. Updates and constant blogs giving more attention to them. The commercial side of T3D I think is very important to it's growth and not just those that are able to give all their time and resources to it for free.
We used to have more people making content packs for T3D, now they are more focused towards Unity etc. We need to get great looking art and addons for T3D available. And if you need to charge what is fair for the work you've done then I'm happy for that.
07/06/2013 (1:49 am)
@Ron Personally Ron everything you come out with is fantastic and you really support your products and that is really important.I think it would be great if we had all the templates and maybe people made art packs that fit in with it all. But you had to do too much ground work to get it working.
This is where the community buyouts come in I think. Maybe a toned down template is migrated in to T3D as MIT and the cost is somewhat paid off and your extra art content and examples that fit in to it are sold as a pack?
However I really want to see more T3D focused content packs available. Updates and constant blogs giving more attention to them. The commercial side of T3D I think is very important to it's growth and not just those that are able to give all their time and resources to it for free.
We used to have more people making content packs for T3D, now they are more focused towards Unity etc. We need to get great looking art and addons for T3D available. And if you need to charge what is fair for the work you've done then I'm happy for that.
#17
07/06/2013 (5:40 am)
Ops wrong thread... Sorry. 
#18
On the topic of templates I do think a Git with some simple templates (nothing major)like the original templates in TGE would help newbies and also others that are not strong programmers. You wouldn't need new asset unless whomever was leading the project decided to.
For a person to make a original and unique game. You would want to replace the art anyways.
The focus of the templates should just be simple game mechanics and things like camera positions and what not. Maybe if I can get some more free time I would put the templates project(s) in motion.
Of course (I know this is off topic) if T3D had things like an AI editor out of the box. You would be able to do a more complete template. Including AI enemies and camera paths for cutscenes. Just my two cents!!!
07/08/2013 (9:00 pm)
I agree, if a person put in their hard work and time into a project, then they should be compensated for it. Plain and simple!On the topic of templates I do think a Git with some simple templates (nothing major)like the original templates in TGE would help newbies and also others that are not strong programmers. You wouldn't need new asset unless whomever was leading the project decided to.
For a person to make a original and unique game. You would want to replace the art anyways.
The focus of the templates should just be simple game mechanics and things like camera positions and what not. Maybe if I can get some more free time I would put the templates project(s) in motion.
Of course (I know this is off topic) if T3D had things like an AI editor out of the box. You would be able to do a more complete template. Including AI enemies and camera paths for cutscenes. Just my two cents!!!
#19
On giving people your improvements be careful for a couple of reasons: one, it could be very solution/genre specific, and two, it may take away those small victories that allow the person to progress.
I think sparse templates are a good thing as a person learns the system by adding things. I found this with TGE. I wanted a database driven mission system. I found a resource that showed me how to tie in Sqlite. Then I needed a way to dump objects to a string to put into the database so I found a resource for that. Then I realized there was a potential memory overflow issue, so I found a dynamic memory solution for the dump to string. With a few modifications to the mission startup script I was able to load objects to and from the database. I also made it so I could leave one object and "possess" another game object. Putting this all in one resource would have been very solution specific. So I think a good resource index with that status of those resources may be more important than templates.
07/08/2013 (11:53 pm)
@Ron,On giving people your improvements be careful for a couple of reasons: one, it could be very solution/genre specific, and two, it may take away those small victories that allow the person to progress.
I think sparse templates are a good thing as a person learns the system by adding things. I found this with TGE. I wanted a database driven mission system. I found a resource that showed me how to tie in Sqlite. Then I needed a way to dump objects to a string to put into the database so I found a resource for that. Then I realized there was a potential memory overflow issue, so I found a dynamic memory solution for the dump to string. With a few modifications to the mission startup script I was able to load objects to and from the database. I also made it so I could leave one object and "possess" another game object. Putting this all in one resource would have been very solution specific. So I think a good resource index with that status of those resources may be more important than templates.
#20
I am someone who makes a living by developing code and the decision to give work away for free is never easy - but the simple fact is, without catching up with the competition in those areas, the engine doesn't have much of a future. If people can pick up the engine for free, with fully open source licenses and get going making the type of game they want to make they will surely be willing to buy asset packs, advanced templates, consultancy services etc. No-one is willing to invest in those things though until they start to believe in the engine and their ability to use it.
A few simple templates for common games and common features would go a long, long way. People could then opt to extend them themselves, or save themselves the effort and buy something that's already a lot more mature.
To me the thought process needs to change from:
"Ok, I've got no idea how to make anything except an FPS, I don't really understand this tutorial and I can't get started. I may as well buy the Unity starter pack and get going there."
to
"Ok, I've got a nice adventure game started, made a nice scene and got something playable... so I know this all works for me... but it's going to take me years to get something as advanced as this pack that I can buy for $50, I may as well buy that..."
07/13/2013 (3:11 am)
My view is that people who are able to contribute back to MIT torque to make it more powerful, more flexible and quicker for newcomers to get started in different genres should really do so. Even if that involves releasing hundreds of hours or work for free.I am someone who makes a living by developing code and the decision to give work away for free is never easy - but the simple fact is, without catching up with the competition in those areas, the engine doesn't have much of a future. If people can pick up the engine for free, with fully open source licenses and get going making the type of game they want to make they will surely be willing to buy asset packs, advanced templates, consultancy services etc. No-one is willing to invest in those things though until they start to believe in the engine and their ability to use it.
A few simple templates for common games and common features would go a long, long way. People could then opt to extend them themselves, or save themselves the effort and buy something that's already a lot more mature.
To me the thought process needs to change from:
"Ok, I've got no idea how to make anything except an FPS, I don't really understand this tutorial and I can't get started. I may as well buy the Unity starter pack and get going there."
to
"Ok, I've got a nice adventure game started, made a nice scene and got something playable... so I know this all works for me... but it's going to take me years to get something as advanced as this pack that I can buy for $50, I may as well buy that..."
Associate Simon Love
As beautiful as this is, it's got nothing on Alan Wake's atmosphere.