One major bug keeping me away from T3D
by Mitovo · in Torque 3D Beginner · 06/10/2013 (4:32 pm) · 15 replies
Hello,
So, I've decided to give T3D another go, but soon after starting a simple - very simple - test environment to get a hang of how things are set up, I ran into an issue that I've had with T3D since 1.0. It happens regardless of my hardware (happened on an older PC as well), driver version, etc.
Basically, at certain camera angles, when I'm attempting to work on something, or even when I'm "in-game" and not in edit mode, entire chunks of the terrain will just disappear at certain camera angles.
Here are a couple screenshots to show you. My camera is above the terrain and if I rotate the camera just a little bit in almost any direction, the terrain will "pop back".
Shot 1
Shot 2
It happens every time, with every terrain I create and edit, regardless of size.
There's several things I'm not crazy about with T3D. Most of them are quirks/idiosyncrasies I can learn to deal with. But this one is a show stopper as it makes working with terrain literally impossible.
I can't believe I'm the only person to have had this problem. Perhaps there's some fix for it somewhere?
Thanks for any help/assistance on this.
So, I've decided to give T3D another go, but soon after starting a simple - very simple - test environment to get a hang of how things are set up, I ran into an issue that I've had with T3D since 1.0. It happens regardless of my hardware (happened on an older PC as well), driver version, etc.
Basically, at certain camera angles, when I'm attempting to work on something, or even when I'm "in-game" and not in edit mode, entire chunks of the terrain will just disappear at certain camera angles.
Here are a couple screenshots to show you. My camera is above the terrain and if I rotate the camera just a little bit in almost any direction, the terrain will "pop back".
Shot 1
Shot 2
It happens every time, with every terrain I create and edit, regardless of size.
There's several things I'm not crazy about with T3D. Most of them are quirks/idiosyncrasies I can learn to deal with. But this one is a show stopper as it makes working with terrain literally impossible.
I can't believe I'm the only person to have had this problem. Perhaps there's some fix for it somewhere?
Thanks for any help/assistance on this.
About the author
#2
to add some camera bookmarks on your map so u can switch from here and there and along with that
did you checked your ViewDistance?
under the MissionGroup
there is the Level Info Object
There "visibleDistance"
does it work with that, sry if u tried that already but thats all that comes to my mind
anyways hope it helps
06/10/2013 (4:38 pm)
when editing its often usefullto add some camera bookmarks on your map so u can switch from here and there and along with that
did you checked your ViewDistance?
under the MissionGroup
there is the Level Info Object
There "visibleDistance"
does it work with that, sry if u tried that already but thats all that comes to my mind
anyways hope it helps
#3
06/10/2013 (4:48 pm)
Never noticed something like that, so maybe not a bug of Torque itself.
#4
CPU: AMD Phenom II quad-core (core unlocked to 6) @ 3 GHz
RAM: 8 Gigs DDR Ram
OS: Windows 7 64-Bit w/ SP1
Video Card: NVidia GeForce GTX 560Ti w/ 1Gig VRAM
Video Driver: 9.18.13.1422 (haven't updated to latest as there's been some issues reported with them)
A brand-new/blank project, on a fresh install of T3D, on a 262 Gig partition, which has 253.6 Gigs free.
It's definitely not due to any lack of ability on my system. And anyway, it's happened going back to T3D 1.0, on previous computers as well, using different hardware, drivers, etc.
Draw distances in the Level Info are:
Minimum: 0.1
Maximum: 1000
Those are the default settings. I haven't touched them.
Here's a video I took showing what happens. This is the base "terrain template". I've only edited it a bit to show the issue, as it turns out it only happens with terrain I've edited. I set the height to 20 (average in that spot was 48 prior to edit), and then started running around in it like you see in the video.
Edit: Video properly linked
06/10/2013 (6:03 pm)
Home-built PCCPU: AMD Phenom II quad-core (core unlocked to 6) @ 3 GHz
RAM: 8 Gigs DDR Ram
OS: Windows 7 64-Bit w/ SP1
Video Card: NVidia GeForce GTX 560Ti w/ 1Gig VRAM
Video Driver: 9.18.13.1422 (haven't updated to latest as there's been some issues reported with them)
A brand-new/blank project, on a fresh install of T3D, on a 262 Gig partition, which has 253.6 Gigs free.
It's definitely not due to any lack of ability on my system. And anyway, it's happened going back to T3D 1.0, on previous computers as well, using different hardware, drivers, etc.
Draw distances in the Level Info are:
Minimum: 0.1
Maximum: 1000
Those are the default settings. I haven't touched them.
Here's a video I took showing what happens. This is the base "terrain template". I've only edited it a bit to show the issue, as it turns out it only happens with terrain I've edited. I set the height to 20 (average in that spot was 48 prior to edit), and then started running around in it like you see in the video.
Edit: Video properly linked
#5
Ron
06/10/2013 (6:46 pm)
Wow, that is truly a strange bug and I have NO idea (YET) as to the hows or whys. Your specs are nearly identical to my development machine so, you should be able to run this without an issue. Let me do some digging around and see if I can find any link to similar issues in the past. I am thinking it may be something as simple as a DX SDK thing.... who knowsRon
#6
I did some poking around since my last message and found out a couple new details.
1. Saving the level and re-loading it eliminates the problem. Nothing disappears once it's reloaded.
2. It only happens after lowering the terrain. Raising the terrain does not have that effect and everything works fine.
Hopefully that'll help with tracking it down. I'll keep poking around and see if anything else comes up.
Edit: Did some more poking around, creating holes and such and nothing else seems to cause the "disappearing".
06/10/2013 (7:08 pm)
Awesome, thanks a bunch, Ron :)I did some poking around since my last message and found out a couple new details.
1. Saving the level and re-loading it eliminates the problem. Nothing disappears once it's reloaded.
2. It only happens after lowering the terrain. Raising the terrain does not have that effect and everything works fine.
Hopefully that'll help with tracking it down. I'll keep poking around and see if anything else comes up.
Edit: Did some more poking around, creating holes and such and nothing else seems to cause the "disappearing".
#7
I've got a nearly identical computer as well, minus 4GB of RAM..
Not seen it before. Doesn't look like its the NearClip either. Would love to NVPerfHud and debug that scene!
08/16/2013 (3:19 am)
Hi Mike, and welcome back.I've got a nearly identical computer as well, minus 4GB of RAM..
Not seen it before. Doesn't look like its the NearClip either. Would love to NVPerfHud and debug that scene!
#8
08/16/2013 (8:35 am)
Wow! I have never seen that either. That would be very disconcerting for sure. Does it only ever occur on lowering the terrain then? So wouldn't restarting the engine get rid of this effect? Shader issue?
#9
>Scene Scales (extremely large or small)
>Camera Scale (extremely large or small)
>Camera FOV & Focus very big number or small
>Terrain material setting
>Light Options or so
good luck
08/16/2013 (8:39 am)
In my experience with several 3D editing software, however i am not pro in Torque 3d. I'd say you check this setting might be helpful:>Scene Scales (extremely large or small)
>Camera Scale (extremely large or small)
>Camera FOV & Focus very big number or small
>Terrain material setting
>Light Options or so
good luck
#10
Overclocked and/or unlocked hardware is unsupported for a reason.
08/16/2013 (9:00 am)
Quote: CPU: AMD Phenom II quad-core (core unlocked to 6) @ 3 GHzThere's a reason why those two cores were disabled and I bet once you re-disable those cores suddenly the problem goes away. Probable due to unreliable FPU in one or both of those purposely disabled cores.
Overclocked and/or unlocked hardware is unsupported for a reason.
#11
Well then, it's a good thing you're not betting money. You'd be paying up.
As I said before, this issue goes back to 1.0 of T3D.
It happened on my previous system, which was a dual-core CPU, without overclocking, unlocked cores, or any other modifications.
It happened on my current system prior to me unlocking the two extra cores.
It's happening now with the cores unlocked.
It's a quirk in the editor.
08/16/2013 (2:36 pm)
@NathanWell then, it's a good thing you're not betting money. You'd be paying up.
As I said before, this issue goes back to 1.0 of T3D.
It happened on my previous system, which was a dual-core CPU, without overclocking, unlocked cores, or any other modifications.
It happened on my current system prior to me unlocking the two extra cores.
It's happening now with the cores unlocked.
It's a quirk in the editor.
#12
Edit: btw this thread sounds like is a similar issue.
08/16/2013 (2:40 pm)
Can you use pastebin to share the mission file? (Like "levels/Empty Room.mis")Edit: btw this thread sounds like is a similar issue.
#13
Out of curiosity though, thinking back to another game that I used to play which had a similar issue with things getting culled when they shouldnt, ive noticed the aspect ratio on your screenshot, are you in a window thats been dragged out wide ? i get some really funky happenings when i drag mine out across two or three of my monitors although nothing disappearing like that
08/16/2013 (2:46 pm)
Well, the only time ive seen anything similar in torque is from before occlusion volumes were fixed a bit.... its hard to claim its a quirk in the editor when its just one person reporting the issue...Out of curiosity though, thinking back to another game that I used to play which had a similar issue with things getting culled when they shouldnt, ive noticed the aspect ratio on your screenshot, are you in a window thats been dragged out wide ? i get some really funky happenings when i drag mine out across two or three of my monitors although nothing disappearing like that
#14
These factors meant an extreme drop in priority and in the end we opted to ship it as a known issue. While it is pretty annoying when you're one of the lucky ones who run into it, the bug doesn't block a user from continuing to work with the terrain or ship their game.
08/16/2013 (3:07 pm)
This shipped as a known issue in 1.1 and 1.2 with the workaround of restart the engine. This one was difficult to nail down what the exact cause was for it since it had an unreliable reproduction rate. I've seen two machines that were exactly the same in hardware, created from the same ghost attempt to reproduce this and only one succeed. The angle it needed to be viewed from varied quite a bit as well and the slightest change in the angle would correct it.These factors meant an extreme drop in priority and in the end we opted to ship it as a known issue. While it is pretty annoying when you're one of the lucky ones who run into it, the bug doesn't block a user from continuing to work with the terrain or ship their game.
#15
Thanks for the clarification. I knew it wasn't my hardware, nor anything I was doing wrong. Unfortunately, some people will immediately dismiss the possibility of it being a legitimate issue, and assume that if it's never happened to them, that it's automatically "user error" or "the result of unlocking 2 extra cores on the CPU".
So, thank you again for clearing that up.
Wish I would have known the workaround for it back then (I'd tried searching for it a number of times, but never found anything about it)... I'd have been a lot farther along by now.
08/17/2013 (9:36 am)
@Scott:Thanks for the clarification. I knew it wasn't my hardware, nor anything I was doing wrong. Unfortunately, some people will immediately dismiss the possibility of it being a legitimate issue, and assume that if it's never happened to them, that it's automatically "user error" or "the result of unlocking 2 extra cores on the CPU".
So, thank you again for clearing that up.
Wish I would have known the workaround for it back then (I'd tried searching for it a number of times, but never found anything about it)... I'd have been a lot farther along by now.
Torque Owner Robert Fritzen
Phantom Games Development