How should we promote T3D?

#61 @Duion,
Now you are getting it. People will be looking for an engine that can do the "Minecraft like" game play. This is an opportunity to cash in on the concept and bring people to T3D/T2D. It is about promoting the engines. It also has the potential to add to the already powerful arsenal in the code. It also shows how T3D can be something other than an FPS.

#62 I like the "sandbox game" idea. Not only a minecraft sandbox but I think the community would benefit from other "sandbox games" also. I know the community over at unity has done the same thing in there with the "sandbox games" it gives the developer(s) a quick start to what ever game they are trying to produce. Any game specific feature that they would need, they would have to be programmed themselves.

#63 You can already play sandbox with the default Torque3D, but networking is limited to objects and building things is limited to the admin of the game, so at the moment players can just watch getting trolled by the admin.

There is also a kit developed at the moment, "Oneworld" by Winterleaf Entertainment, which will support full collaborative editing.

So with Torque3D + update, you would already be very close to a minecraft game, but after that the hard part will start, where you have to program your own game and set the rules and game dynamics, since you would not want everyone to have admin powers and so on and also you would need a big base of artwork.

The drawback on all this plans is, that nobody wants to do the dirty work, most people just want to play around or mod an existing game, so you have to decide if you want to promote the engine or take on a full functional game.

#64 I think the hardest thing I am having issues with is placing objects. I think it could be mocked up using SimObject for active blocks and when they are fixated in place a lightweight object is placed and the simobject destroyed. The placed objects may not even need to be networked except for initial map generation.

I guess I am not sure what "sandbox" means to other people. I see it as a literal sandbox to build persistent things during the game. The mechanics themselves allow alteration of the game. A good example of a sandbox game would be an RPG that lets you build worlds by interacting with NPCs. Minecraft is a sandbox game that lets you place blocks. Other games let you placed buildings. So to me there are sandbox features in an RTS.

One reason I chose the Minecraft model is because there is ONE model for all blocks. So all blocks, plus some really simple textures and the world artwork is done. There will still be shader work, but most of the default shaders are pretty much there. Models for the different monsters would be so dang easy it could be done by a coder in a couple of weeks, an artist in a few days.

Networking code is not hard once you get into it. Also redoing some of the low level objects may be needed to make things fast on hit detection for the terrain. Of course only exposed blocks can even be hit.

The point is not to create that type of game, but to work in the functionality of that type of game. That way people who want to make that type of game or similar can jump in an play in the sandbox.

#65 Well, the most core element to a sandbox(outside ability to move and other obviously basic parts of a game) is paging/streaming.

Minecraft does it, Skyrim does, and so on. To create any *sizable* sandbox would necessitate a way to zone the world and page in zones as players traverse the world.
So making a sandbox template/demo would require the ability to page content in.

Once that's sorted, I don't think a minecraft-esque game to demo off the sandbox abilities would be a bad idea, partially because how simple the art is means it'd be faster to hash out the content side.

#66 On the topic of sandbox games, just wanted to hop in and present an idea for Torque 2D. The two biggest 2D sandbox games that are hot right now are Terraria and Starbound. Terraria has already been released, but is about to get a major update. Starbound is releasing this year. They recently ran a crowd-funding campaign on their own site and raised an unbelievable amount of money from players who are waiting to get the game.

I've always wanted to make a 2D sandbox kit for Torque 2D, similar to Terraria, but I just don't have the time to tackle it myself. So for anyone who is reading this thread, is hot on the idea of sandbox games, and wants to use Torque 2D, check those games out.

#67 Demolishun, I totally agree.

Quote:The point is not to create that type of game, but to work in the functionality of that type of game. That way people who want to make that type of game or similar can jump in an play in the sandbox.

I've been saying that same thing. Only difference I feel it should be done for other genres as well, kind of like the action adventure kit.
Each kit would hold basic functionality that is unique for that type of game. It would work great if there were some kind of out - the - box AI but I suppose torquescript could handle it, but not for sure.

#68 @Kory
Oh, you could definitely write fleshed out AI with TS. Most everything code-wise that makes the TAIK AI work is script with a little bit of supporting engine tweaks.

#69 Ok, so nearly half of the system work is already done for a basic RTS. The RTS Prototype combined with the AI Tutorial scripts (replace the orc burrow with the stock tower and the Boombot with soldiers, set skin on spawn to match teams) and you're pretty much set. Add in resources and you're there. After that it's all about map creation. If you want to flesh it out you can add tech trees and more unit types.

It would be a good idea to add some support functionality for AI processing on the engine side - it runs OK as it stands, but begins to bog down noticeably with around 250 units on screen....

Who wants to build it? ;p

#70 @Richard
sounds good, i might be able to drop some art assets in
or let me reprahse that
if u keep/take on the code part i would be willing to support a rts demo module with art assets

as in
basic buildings
vehicles and some enviroment art
(player models might possible aswell but at a later point)

Am sure you agree that something like
a one level demo
with 2gametypes and
2 different foot soldier classes
1 mobile class
and lets say 3 building classes
as in
deploy factory - for foot soldiers
mobile factory - for mobile class deployment
turret station - for defense
would be more then enough to get ppl started

if this meets your idea i would be happy to work with you on this one
and as this is just about making something usefull
there should not be stress and we might be done with it by the time of 4.0s arrival.

as a sidenote with this we might be able to make the first step -establishing a community driven demo game module section-

#71 As far as buildings go for a RTS and common features. I believe the following will be an example of something that is playable and a solid basis.

I think:
Generator - for power (buildings take up power to be operational)
Barracks - for simple soldiers
Academy - to add more advanced units to the barracks (shows an upgrade via buildings and contains tech tree options)
Motor pool - for simple vehicles
Pillbox - manned defense structure

Income in RTS is important also and has its structures:
Oil refinery - could be built on top of oil deposits

I wonder if it would be possible to get a team together that would create a community game but also a community/commercial game (profits going towards further T3D development?). A kickstarter could be started to provide some funding, but also it would state that the feature set of the game will become a part of T3D MIT as an example module for the engine.

Thus creating a module for all, and funding to create a great example of T3D. I suppose for all the examples it could be done this way.

#72 Edward, I like that sound good to me. The only issue I see is putting it on kickstarter as T3D projects in the past haven't done too well but excellent idea.

#73 Easy now - let's keep it simple and leave something for the kit users to do....

#74 Oops...

#75 We need more users BEFORE we attempt another kickstarter. My friend and I are already thinking we are going to use some concepts from Minecraft for our game. Which is not a sandbox game BTW. I just like the very good ideas they used in the game.

I am going to start looking in the engine to determine how to approach this. It will require some research. Does anyone have any links to the paging terrain used in Minecraft and other paged landscape games. That one feature could bring a lot more people to T3D.

#76

Quote:We need more users BEFORE we attempt another kickstarter.

Strongly agreed.

#77 @Demolishun
Isn't Terrain Master doing a paged terrain system? It's free and open source:
Edit: Added a link to a more relevant blog.
Introducing T3D Terrain Master

#78 It is true we do need more users, or at least a very good game idea that would draw people. But it would need a lot of marketing to draw attention before a kickstarter.

An idea I had was to not go the kickstarter route for T3D/T2D but to add a layer on top of the voting system for requested features. GG could accept donations for that feature. It would remove the 7% loss of funds to kickstarter and also show where people are willing to put the money, not just votes. What someone may vote for may not be actually considered a priority at this time in the development stage.

However it needs to be clear that its for added features to pay a GG employee to work on a feature along with the community. I think it would be beneficial for these features to be an open branch and community could also help to develop/test them.

#79 Hey Just thought I would chime in on this.

I will start off by saying Tourqe 2D/3D needs more games even if they are just tech demos.

I will point at Unreal Engine 4 - They have released a few tech demos such as their most recent infiltrator tech demo. They are awesome from both a technical and a artistic point of view.


Garage Games has a big one up on Unreal because of the open source aspect of the Tourqe 3D engine.

As for Tourqe 2D I would highly recommend the same thing.

I would also recommend getting a Facebook page, Twitter, and Google Plus page up so that we can spread the word :)

#80 Honestly think the best way to promote the engine and gg's hard work on it as well as the community, is to get something into the light of the public that people wouldn't believe is done with it. With 3.0 I can already see how different it looks just on the environmental point alone (terrain and atmosphere). It's a stark contrast, it really does look good. With what's actually possible with a little creative
ingenuity, there really could be a very good game in many genre's with the engine, especially now.

The community can be as much a part of increasing the engine as anything (with the 3rd release that's showing too). Which is great! I guess my point is, there are MUCH less roadblocks in the way now than there EVER has been. It just takes some effort and persistence to keep moving with any project. I've seen a lot of people get discouraged, and one of the major dividing factors between success and failure, is actually risking it and putting something out there on the line. Keeping it to yourself doesn't do any service to any project in that respect. Ok I think I'm rambling now, too long awake for me.