How should we promote T3D?
by Lukas Joergensen · in Torque 3D Professional · 04/28/2013 (2:03 pm) · 170 replies
Ron started a discussion here after yet another awesome T3D-initiative went down the drain.
Tbh it's a shame we can't even raise 10.500$ for an Android and Linux port of T2D, thats a really cheap price for something that would benefit us all.
So the discussion is, how do we make more people aware of the T3D engine? It's a great engine, it's open-source and completely free, we just need to get the word out there and tell people how much T3D has evolved!
One of the ways we can do this is share!
Anyways will try to keep the topic-header clean, so... Discuss!
Tbh it's a shame we can't even raise 10.500$ for an Android and Linux port of T2D, thats a really cheap price for something that would benefit us all.
So the discussion is, how do we make more people aware of the T3D engine? It's a great engine, it's open-source and completely free, we just need to get the word out there and tell people how much T3D has evolved!
One of the ways we can do this is share!
Anyways will try to keep the topic-header clean, so... Discuss!
About the author
IPS Bundle available at: https://www.winterleafentertainment.com/Products/IPS.aspx
#22
IDK what the link is, you'll have to google for: learn torque 3d.
Its a brave attempt, but i dont think it has recieved much attention, very few actually know that Torque 3d is free.
Those who know its free dont try it for they get to read all that 2009 trashy comments about T3d.
04/29/2013 (6:05 pm)
Also i noticed that there is a (new i think) website which teaches Torque 3d Game Development!IDK what the link is, you'll have to google for: learn torque 3d.
Its a brave attempt, but i dont think it has recieved much attention, very few actually know that Torque 3d is free.
Those who know its free dont try it for they get to read all that 2009 trashy comments about T3d.
#23
You are probably referring to my past post and yes, the project is coming along. I am just waiting for all the great stuff in T3D 3.0 to be released before I announce the project and ask for help. It will be a fun project, it will be a difficult project, it will be 100% open source and mod-able and with luck, it will be a GOOD GAME.... not a pack or demo....a full on real co-op GAME.
Ron
04/29/2013 (7:49 pm)
Akash,You are probably referring to my past post and yes, the project is coming along. I am just waiting for all the great stuff in T3D 3.0 to be released before I announce the project and ask for help. It will be a fun project, it will be a difficult project, it will be 100% open source and mod-able and with luck, it will be a GOOD GAME.... not a pack or demo....a full on real co-op GAME.
Ron
#24
I.e., we need cool stuff to show people. There's no point telling them all about how great the engine is without backing it up. Also, unfortunately, IMO the days of 'full source' being a plus for most people are over. Unless you're a full-on production studio, you don't need source to work with something like Unity. That's what Torque never realised, I think - it was telling people 'hey, if you learn C++ and the convoluted inner workings of this ancient engine, you can do anything!', whereas Unity was saying 'you don't have to learn any C++ to do this, that and these.' Which, to be honest, as a developer interested in making games, I would be more attracted to.
Luckily I'm not one of those people - sometimes I feel like I program for its own sake, so Torque was great for me. It's why I've managed to produce Walkabout but not an actual game in my time with the engine.
And now it's the reason why I go on about TorqueScript being bad, and T2D being great - Torque 3D needs to make itself easy to use, and it needs to have great projects built on it that we can point to when people are asking what the engine can do.
04/29/2013 (8:19 pm)
I think stuff like the notice T3D is getting on the Oculus Rift forums/Reddit is almost the only way forward, at least until the engine itself builds up momentum with people using it to develop games. Really looking forward to seeing if Frozen Endzone will drive any interest in the engine.I.e., we need cool stuff to show people. There's no point telling them all about how great the engine is without backing it up. Also, unfortunately, IMO the days of 'full source' being a plus for most people are over. Unless you're a full-on production studio, you don't need source to work with something like Unity. That's what Torque never realised, I think - it was telling people 'hey, if you learn C++ and the convoluted inner workings of this ancient engine, you can do anything!', whereas Unity was saying 'you don't have to learn any C++ to do this, that and these.' Which, to be honest, as a developer interested in making games, I would be more attracted to.
Luckily I'm not one of those people - sometimes I feel like I program for its own sake, so Torque was great for me. It's why I've managed to produce Walkabout but not an actual game in my time with the engine.
And now it's the reason why I go on about TorqueScript being bad, and T2D being great - Torque 3D needs to make itself easy to use, and it needs to have great projects built on it that we can point to when people are asking what the engine can do.
#25
Thank you, that is really great, indescribably big contribution+move towards the Torque 3d users, thank you.
I did feel like it was yours but since i was not sure and i had no link to make sure, directly pointing you would be somewhat silly and in a way, disrespectful, thank you, that's very re-assuring.
_____________________________________________________________
Hmm, the link of Learn Torque 3d is: http://learntorque3d.com/
04/29/2013 (8:51 pm)
Quote:Akash,
You are probably referring to my past post and yes, the project is coming along. I am just waiting for all the great stuff in T3D 3.0 to be released before I announce the project and ask for help. It will be a fun project, it will be a difficult project, it will be 100% open source and mod-able and with luck, it will be a GOOD GAME.... not a pack or demo....a full on real co-op GAME.
Ron
Thank you, that is really great, indescribably big contribution+move towards the Torque 3d users, thank you.
I did feel like it was yours but since i was not sure and i had no link to make sure, directly pointing you would be somewhat silly and in a way, disrespectful, thank you, that's very re-assuring.
_____________________________________________________________
Hmm, the link of Learn Torque 3d is: http://learntorque3d.com/
#26
Ron
04/29/2013 (10:17 pm)
Does anyone know who runs this Learning site? Why is this not pushed here? This is the HOME of T3D right? Another example of a possible GREAT resource NOT being advertised, marketed or pushed! What the hell?Ron
#27
04/29/2013 (10:27 pm)
@Ron looks like it is a WIP, they are probably holding off the advertisement untill it is ready.
#28
04/29/2013 (10:42 pm)
Looks like they currently have nothing on the site. It might be best to not push it till the content develops (at least 2-3 videos). They are looking for a monthly subscription, which might work if the content is good/large enough to justify it.
#29
R
04/29/2013 (11:39 pm)
Thanks guys, and yes.... it should wait....but, gosh....I know at least 1 guy that has a few items he would not mind adding to their library of stuff... (me). Or, if nothing else, ask for contributors or help making this happen quicker. Why must we always develop in a bubble? R
#30
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCIOOjJ1Sk0
I had music on it that I added from Youtube, but it flagged the music I added as a copyright infringement violation. I was like "Seriously? The music you let me add gets the video flagged?" So I stripped the music, but I did all the video editing using Youtubes tools!
The reason I am posting this is because WE should get better about posting cool features and putting links back to Torque for both T2D and T3D. Also make note that it is MIT Open Source. Some people might confuse Open Source for GPL and that turns off commercial interests. I will be looking at my videos and determine what should be promoted better.
I am also going to rework my website to reflect my work with programming, Torque, and cool tech related to software. I think I can help drum up interest by putting up big links and writing articles. Look forward to more blogs on game development and Torque.
Let me know what you think of the video promotion concept for Torque.
04/30/2013 (2:14 am)
Here is something I was playing with yesterday:www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCIOOjJ1Sk0
I had music on it that I added from Youtube, but it flagged the music I added as a copyright infringement violation. I was like "Seriously? The music you let me add gets the video flagged?" So I stripped the music, but I did all the video editing using Youtubes tools!
The reason I am posting this is because WE should get better about posting cool features and putting links back to Torque for both T2D and T3D. Also make note that it is MIT Open Source. Some people might confuse Open Source for GPL and that turns off commercial interests. I will be looking at my videos and determine what should be promoted better.
I am also going to rework my website to reflect my work with programming, Torque, and cool tech related to software. I think I can help drum up interest by putting up big links and writing articles. Look forward to more blogs on game development and Torque.
Let me know what you think of the video promotion concept for Torque.
#31
04/30/2013 (7:13 am)
Quote:Does anyone know who runs this Learning site?I think the website is run by Gary Roberson (http://www.garagegames.com/community/forums/viewthread/133274). I could be wrong though, it's just my guess.
Quote:Let me know what you think of the video promotion concept for Torque.That's a great idea.
#32
04/30/2013 (7:58 am)
I would be willing to help out in any community project. 
#33
Alright, so here's my first suggestion to make this a reality. First, let's not say "How should we promote T3D?" I'd leave the thread titled as it is, since there are more T3D users, so it will get attention.
What it should really be is "How should we promote Torque?" The community has been separated for a while, when we kept messing with the licensing, splitting teams, and giving more attention to one engine or another. Now that this is no longer an issue, we should combine effort.
I'll be talking to Dave today about having a couple of meetings between both committees, to unify some of our effort. I think when it comes to spreading the word of Torque 3D and Torque 2D, especially to overcome the negative reputation, everyone needs to chip in.
That means answering forum posts (people are already doing this), posting blogs about your work (not happening nearly as much as it used to), and posting on other neutral sites. Dave, myself, and Charlie have been posting on Reddit more frequently as of late, and we aren't being greeted with torches and pitchforks. Those kinds of folks are definitely on competitor sites.
Fun story, that ShiVA liquidation thread on Unity's site had a GG representative; me. Go back and look at how I responded. I did not attack Unity. I did not attack its users. I joined in purely to provide some information and express my support for Stonetrip and its workers.
Everyone should be proud of this community, their own work, and the work of others. Focus on the positive, but most importantly, GET IT DONE. GG will hold up its end and has some fun projects in the work, like the Oculus Rift, Leap Motion, and Spine support. We will continue to help with support and gatekeeping, but we really need everyone else to step up the effort if they want the engine to step up in quality.
A lot of folks in this thread are doing just that, so maybe encourage others to do so as well.
04/30/2013 (9:25 am)
Very great thread. I'm glad someone outside of GG and the committees has started this topic, as I've been towing the line for a while now. The Torque engines, both 2D and 3D, do not belong to GarageGames. Open source MIT means anyone who uses it, owns it. If collectively, users want to see it improve and get better attention, then it has to be a collective effort. The Torque committees consist of six guys. That's not enough manpower to improve the engines, maintain the main repositories, drive efforts, and spread the word.Alright, so here's my first suggestion to make this a reality. First, let's not say "How should we promote T3D?" I'd leave the thread titled as it is, since there are more T3D users, so it will get attention.
What it should really be is "How should we promote Torque?" The community has been separated for a while, when we kept messing with the licensing, splitting teams, and giving more attention to one engine or another. Now that this is no longer an issue, we should combine effort.
I'll be talking to Dave today about having a couple of meetings between both committees, to unify some of our effort. I think when it comes to spreading the word of Torque 3D and Torque 2D, especially to overcome the negative reputation, everyone needs to chip in.
That means answering forum posts (people are already doing this), posting blogs about your work (not happening nearly as much as it used to), and posting on other neutral sites. Dave, myself, and Charlie have been posting on Reddit more frequently as of late, and we aren't being greeted with torches and pitchforks. Those kinds of folks are definitely on competitor sites.
Fun story, that ShiVA liquidation thread on Unity's site had a GG representative; me. Go back and look at how I responded. I did not attack Unity. I did not attack its users. I joined in purely to provide some information and express my support for Stonetrip and its workers.
Everyone should be proud of this community, their own work, and the work of others. Focus on the positive, but most importantly, GET IT DONE. GG will hold up its end and has some fun projects in the work, like the Oculus Rift, Leap Motion, and Spine support. We will continue to help with support and gatekeeping, but we really need everyone else to step up the effort if they want the engine to step up in quality.
A lot of folks in this thread are doing just that, so maybe encourage others to do so as well.
#34
forums.indiegamer.com/showthread.php?35391-Orcs-And-Aliens.
A positive word for the game, would in turn mean a positive word for the engine. It just goes to prove that 1 man can make an RTS using the Torque engine.
04/30/2013 (10:42 am)
Well, here is the Orcs and Aliens feedback request thread for the RTS game created using the Torque Game Engine.forums.indiegamer.com/showthread.php?35391-Orcs-And-Aliens.
A positive word for the game, would in turn mean a positive word for the engine. It just goes to prove that 1 man can make an RTS using the Torque engine.
#35
The best way to get a project noticed is by seeing people or games/programs use said project in one way or another. Most people have only ever heard of a game engine because a so-and-so popular game used it. People wanted to use Torque because it came from Tribes 2. People wanted to use Unreal Engine because Unreal Tournament series used it. idTech / Quake engines because Quake 1/2/3 Arena used it. And it goes on, and on.
So I guess what I'm saying is the biggest promotion you can give Torque is by showing off what you can do with it. That's pretty much it.
04/30/2013 (1:05 pm)
My take on this simply just keep doing what you all have been doing. Offering improvements to the community by submitting pull requests to the repositories (development branch only please), making games that use Torque, creating tutorials and/or documentation, etc..The best way to get a project noticed is by seeing people or games/programs use said project in one way or another. Most people have only ever heard of a game engine because a so-and-so popular game used it. People wanted to use Torque because it came from Tribes 2. People wanted to use Unreal Engine because Unreal Tournament series used it. idTech / Quake engines because Quake 1/2/3 Arena used it. And it goes on, and on.
So I guess what I'm saying is the biggest promotion you can give Torque is by showing off what you can do with it. That's pretty much it.
#36
04/30/2013 (1:17 pm)
Spot on Nathan. A tech is proven capable by the end result.
#37
Check this out : www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw85AIG1Y4k
Never heard of the guy, but he reviewed some stuff Dave, Mike Hall and myself did and he was pleased with it! So there is a bit of good news...
Ron
04/30/2013 (1:58 pm)
Hey guys,Check this out : www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw85AIG1Y4k
Never heard of the guy, but he reviewed some stuff Dave, Mike Hall and myself did and he was pleased with it! So there is a bit of good news...
Ron
#38
that guy in the video ron showed the link
said it -
t3d has leap motion/ hydra and rift support... 3magic things out of the box thx to our steering commitee
and since the GMK went open src - it would be perfectly suitable to be integrated into T3D - am talking more about the template scripted objects system and cutscene camera stuff.
with it T3D would get a easier way of adding stuff
even if my talkin about the GMK doesnt sound like its fitting in here...
Think twice - T3d would have a easier way to make scripted events that could be compared to UDK`s Kismet
and thats just 1 thing....
04/30/2013 (2:21 pm)
more ppl will pick up t3d with timethat guy in the video ron showed the link
said it -
t3d has leap motion/ hydra and rift support... 3magic things out of the box thx to our steering commitee
and since the GMK went open src - it would be perfectly suitable to be integrated into T3D - am talking more about the template scripted objects system and cutscene camera stuff.
with it T3D would get a easier way of adding stuff
even if my talkin about the GMK doesnt sound like its fitting in here...
Think twice - T3d would have a easier way to make scripted events that could be compared to UDK`s Kismet
and thats just 1 thing....
#40
I agree I purchased GMK and it works great for cut scenes, just take a little bit of Torque script knowledge. He also made mention that guidebot would be going open source soon. That added with the NAV mesh resource and I would think you would be able to get some pretty good AI.
Like I said before I willing to help out in any open source community project(s).
My idea for open source community project(s) if people would be willing to contribute. I even would like to make to source available, so it gives people good templates to start from.
For example: years ago there was a Gear of Torque demo that was done to show off what (I believe was TGEA)could do.
I think we could do something similar, kind of remake different genre games.
Example:
torqueRim (skyrim)MMORPG template
torqueFighters (smash bros; or any fighting game) template
etc, etc.. try to cover as many genres as we can. They don't have to be the full game but enough to show off what torque can do. Release those demos plus the source and tutorials of how it was done.
04/30/2013 (3:41 pm)
JOlinar,I agree I purchased GMK and it works great for cut scenes, just take a little bit of Torque script knowledge. He also made mention that guidebot would be going open source soon. That added with the NAV mesh resource and I would think you would be able to get some pretty good AI.
Like I said before I willing to help out in any open source community project(s).
My idea for open source community project(s) if people would be willing to contribute. I even would like to make to source available, so it gives people good templates to start from.
For example: years ago there was a Gear of Torque demo that was done to show off what (I believe was TGEA)could do.
I think we could do something similar, kind of remake different genre games.
Example:
torqueRim (skyrim)MMORPG template
torqueFighters (smash bros; or any fighting game) template
etc, etc.. try to cover as many genres as we can. They don't have to be the full game but enough to show off what torque can do. Release those demos plus the source and tutorials of how it was done.
Akash