Yeah, Torque is probably right for you.
by Richard Ranft · in General Discussion · 03/11/2013 (3:31 pm) · 10 replies
This gets asked about a TON. I mean, all the time.
Unless you already own Unreal 2+, Gamebryo or some other $100k+ engine then you won't find much out there to beat Torque 3D. Also, unless you have the desire and a few years to spend making one yourself just for fun when Torque 3D is free and can be learned faster than building a comparable engine there's no reason not to use it.
As for Torque 2D, the same reason applies. Unless you already have something comparable there is no sane reason not to use it.
So stop dithering and just use it.
PS: Did I mention FREE? The license is pretty simple.
Unless you already own Unreal 2+, Gamebryo or some other $100k+ engine then you won't find much out there to beat Torque 3D. Also, unless you have the desire and a few years to spend making one yourself just for fun when Torque 3D is free and can be learned faster than building a comparable engine there's no reason not to use it.
As for Torque 2D, the same reason applies. Unless you already have something comparable there is no sane reason not to use it.
So stop dithering and just use it.
PS: Did I mention FREE? The license is pretty simple.
About the author
I was a soldier, then a computer technician, an electrician, a technical writer, game programmer, and now software test/tools developer. I've been a hobbyist programmer since the age of 13.
#2
i mean T3D just went MIT and it is gonna take some months till some noticeable projects come to life
and there is enough going on
behind the curtain ;)
1 wrong assumption that many ppl get is that T3D is just a FPS engine, it is not - it is what u make of it and there a couple of resources that show other ways
along with that it is easy compareable with the big ones it is just too early to be taken serious for the "mainstream" - however this will change with time.
03/11/2013 (5:28 pm)
Wouldn`t worry too much about ppl being confusedi mean T3D just went MIT and it is gonna take some months till some noticeable projects come to life
and there is enough going on
behind the curtain ;)
1 wrong assumption that many ppl get is that T3D is just a FPS engine, it is not - it is what u make of it and there a couple of resources that show other ways
along with that it is easy compareable with the big ones it is just too early to be taken serious for the "mainstream" - however this will change with time.
#3
Ya know, this is probably the best forum post I have seen since T3D and T2D went MIT. Now, I can't speak directly for the T2D guys, but my first 'task' with the T3D Steering Committee was to sit down and do a realistic current comparison between T3D and most of the leading 'free' engines out there. In doing this, I discovered a couple of things. T3D and T2D really do not have much to 'compare to' when it comes to other solutions because there is NOTHING out there like these tools. (Keep in mind, I can NOT speak directly as a rep for the T2D guys (with hope they will chime in on this) specifically, but they are great guys and are all about making T2D the best it can be.)
First and foremost, the Torque series engines are truly 100% free. Unity, Unreal, and even CryEngine have free 'VERSIONS'. All of which are very limited in what you can do. There is no source code available with these engines and you are stuck with what the developers of these other engines allow you to do.
Heck, with the Torque series of engines, you don't even need to let people know you used Torque if you choose them. I personally call mine the RONICONAPOLIS development package...Ok, not really but, my point is if I make enough changes, it's no longer T3D and I can for all intents push it out as a new engine. (I would not recommend this unless you do some truly unique changes, since T3D is very well known and your customers will likely balk at something like that.) Then again, if you choose to rewrite vast chunks of code, you could do JUST that.
Here in this community, you can make your MMO, you can make your version of COD or Angry Birds, you can make whatever you want! You just need to take the time to LEARN how to do it. With Torque (no matter what version), you have access to the source, this means you can make the engine do what you want. For 1/4 million bucks (for one seat) you can do 'extra stuff' with CryEngine, or for 1500$ you can unlock features in Unity (we won't go into Epic's price scheme). Here, with the Torque series, you can do it for free with just a bit of patience and work. No, we don't have a 'make game' button but, you have the option to make whatever you want if you have the drive and patience.
I can also tell you, without feeling like I am blowing the Torque horn, since T3D has gone MIT, the committee (including myself) do our best to LISTEN to the users and do our best to FIX things and ADD things that the community wants and needs in the engine core. We can disagree as to what version system we use or whether or not fixes are coming fast enough, but the engine core has made some MAJOR improvements and some really amazing things are cued for the next release and future releases!
Did anyone besides me notice the FPS increase and the general increase in performance for Stock MIT from release to 2.0? This is because Mike and Dave and others did some major clean ups and optimizations. This stuff of course, goes unnoticed to the general community and that's the way it should be, but there is a large increase in performance. With other engines, you are at the mercy of 'trends' and what the developers are interested in giving you. We have a community that drives development. This is why Torque is the right engine for you. Game development is NOT easy. If it was, we would all be rich and famous. If you are serious, then TORQUE is the engine you need to learn.
Now, according to OUR T3D charter, we develop the core engine. This means, we do not add anything new unless it benefits the base engine, therefore, we are not going to add "mmo" specific or FPS specific features or any feature that is 'genre' specific. However, we want to provide the best BASE engine so that you, the community, can create your game in whatever genre you choose using the core tech, without having that tech 'get in the way'. This is another thing that we all are working on in order to give you the 'best engine'.
I know I went into a bit more detail than Richard did but, this is why T3D and T2D are right engines for your project. We are NOT the largest dev group out there, but we are all dedicated to helping each and every one of you to make your project successful.
Thanks for reading
Ron
03/11/2013 (6:14 pm)
Richard,Ya know, this is probably the best forum post I have seen since T3D and T2D went MIT. Now, I can't speak directly for the T2D guys, but my first 'task' with the T3D Steering Committee was to sit down and do a realistic current comparison between T3D and most of the leading 'free' engines out there. In doing this, I discovered a couple of things. T3D and T2D really do not have much to 'compare to' when it comes to other solutions because there is NOTHING out there like these tools. (Keep in mind, I can NOT speak directly as a rep for the T2D guys (with hope they will chime in on this) specifically, but they are great guys and are all about making T2D the best it can be.)
First and foremost, the Torque series engines are truly 100% free. Unity, Unreal, and even CryEngine have free 'VERSIONS'. All of which are very limited in what you can do. There is no source code available with these engines and you are stuck with what the developers of these other engines allow you to do.
Heck, with the Torque series of engines, you don't even need to let people know you used Torque if you choose them. I personally call mine the RONICONAPOLIS development package...Ok, not really but, my point is if I make enough changes, it's no longer T3D and I can for all intents push it out as a new engine. (I would not recommend this unless you do some truly unique changes, since T3D is very well known and your customers will likely balk at something like that.) Then again, if you choose to rewrite vast chunks of code, you could do JUST that.
Here in this community, you can make your MMO, you can make your version of COD or Angry Birds, you can make whatever you want! You just need to take the time to LEARN how to do it. With Torque (no matter what version), you have access to the source, this means you can make the engine do what you want. For 1/4 million bucks (for one seat) you can do 'extra stuff' with CryEngine, or for 1500$ you can unlock features in Unity (we won't go into Epic's price scheme). Here, with the Torque series, you can do it for free with just a bit of patience and work. No, we don't have a 'make game' button but, you have the option to make whatever you want if you have the drive and patience.
I can also tell you, without feeling like I am blowing the Torque horn, since T3D has gone MIT, the committee (including myself) do our best to LISTEN to the users and do our best to FIX things and ADD things that the community wants and needs in the engine core. We can disagree as to what version system we use or whether or not fixes are coming fast enough, but the engine core has made some MAJOR improvements and some really amazing things are cued for the next release and future releases!
Did anyone besides me notice the FPS increase and the general increase in performance for Stock MIT from release to 2.0? This is because Mike and Dave and others did some major clean ups and optimizations. This stuff of course, goes unnoticed to the general community and that's the way it should be, but there is a large increase in performance. With other engines, you are at the mercy of 'trends' and what the developers are interested in giving you. We have a community that drives development. This is why Torque is the right engine for you. Game development is NOT easy. If it was, we would all be rich and famous. If you are serious, then TORQUE is the engine you need to learn.
Now, according to OUR T3D charter, we develop the core engine. This means, we do not add anything new unless it benefits the base engine, therefore, we are not going to add "mmo" specific or FPS specific features or any feature that is 'genre' specific. However, we want to provide the best BASE engine so that you, the community, can create your game in whatever genre you choose using the core tech, without having that tech 'get in the way'. This is another thing that we all are working on in order to give you the 'best engine'.
I know I went into a bit more detail than Richard did but, this is why T3D and T2D are right engines for your project. We are NOT the largest dev group out there, but we are all dedicated to helping each and every one of you to make your project successful.
Thanks for reading
Ron
#4
03/11/2013 (6:48 pm)
Yes I noticed the performance increase, because I have a pretty old computer and when I recorded my first video I switched to 800x600, postfx except sunrays all off, antisoptric filtering limited to 1 to make it run over 20fps, now I can switch all on and turn to HD resolution and it runs smooth. 
#5
(Actually that is not entirely true. I knew that this scenario would occur so I put a sign on it that said $50. My neighbor saw us wheeling it out so they said they wanted it. I told them they could have it. They asked if it worked and I said it did. They asked about the $50 sign. I told them we wanted someone to steal it. So technically the fridge did not even make it to the curb before someone got it for $0.)
Right now Torque kind of looks like the "free fridge" to people. When a few games get shipped with the MIT engines it will look a bit different.
We are going to get a lot of people who don't understand that any game will cost them something to develop. Be it time, money, or both. The price of the engine in Torque's case has always been the smaller part of the investment.
03/12/2013 (11:26 am)
I needed to get rid of a refrigerator. I put it on the curb with a sign that says "free fridge". It stayed there for a week. Then I put a sign that said "fridge $50". It was stolen the next day. (Actually that is not entirely true. I knew that this scenario would occur so I put a sign on it that said $50. My neighbor saw us wheeling it out so they said they wanted it. I told them they could have it. They asked if it worked and I said it did. They asked about the $50 sign. I told them we wanted someone to steal it. So technically the fridge did not even make it to the curb before someone got it for $0.)
Right now Torque kind of looks like the "free fridge" to people. When a few games get shipped with the MIT engines it will look a bit different.
We are going to get a lot of people who don't understand that any game will cost them something to develop. Be it time, money, or both. The price of the engine in Torque's case has always been the smaller part of the investment.
#6
So far the people I've seen asking about the engine seem to understand this. They're just wondering if it's going to take them x hours longer or be y weeks faster - and there really are no meaningful comparisons to make. How would I answer that? I have no idea how fast you work and you have no idea how fast I work, so if it saved me a month how does that have any meaning for you? This isn't electrical construction where there is a book with rough estimates for time to install practically every thing possible.
I'm mainly hoping that people will be encouraged to try out simple things with the engines and realize what the engines can do for them this way. As they experiment and research they'll be able to gain insight on how much time they will save instead of how much time I saved.
03/14/2013 (9:38 pm)
Quote:We are going to get a lot of people who don't understand that any game will cost them something to develop. Be it time, money, or both. The price of the engine in Torque's case has always been the smaller part of the investment.
So far the people I've seen asking about the engine seem to understand this. They're just wondering if it's going to take them x hours longer or be y weeks faster - and there really are no meaningful comparisons to make. How would I answer that? I have no idea how fast you work and you have no idea how fast I work, so if it saved me a month how does that have any meaning for you? This isn't electrical construction where there is a book with rough estimates for time to install practically every thing possible.
I'm mainly hoping that people will be encouraged to try out simple things with the engines and realize what the engines can do for them this way. As they experiment and research they'll be able to gain insight on how much time they will save instead of how much time I saved.
#7
03/22/2013 (3:56 pm)
Torque is the one, the only one... My precious... Torque! TorqueTorque!!! :o)
#8
Now, after 5 years creating an engine from scratch, the engine would be very game dependent and not as flexible as Torque. You also would not have the 5 years of additional development the community put into Torque.
How does that sound? I pulled that right out of my...head.
03/23/2013 (2:43 am)
If you wrote a game from scratch that was as high a quality as one based on Torque it will take 5 years. The same game should take 6 to 12 months with Torque. This assumes the skill base of a professional programmer with experience in the game industry. So lets say it will take 80% less time using a Torque product.Now, after 5 years creating an engine from scratch, the engine would be very game dependent and not as flexible as Torque. You also would not have the 5 years of additional development the community put into Torque.
How does that sound? I pulled that right out of my...head.
#9
03/23/2013 (12:02 pm)
There's no doubt Torque is the best option no matter if you are beginner or developer with a couple of years experience in the game development. 
Duion
Especially in the software section it is hard to compensate something with money, because most consists of users testing it and bugfixing.
The main advantage of the popular engines is, that they have more people using it and improving it when they come across bugs or something missing.