Is Torque 2D MIT ready for a real game.

#1

Quote:I want to know if torque 2d is stable enough?

Absolutely. It's not a new engine, it's been around for a fair while and it has been used internally for projects.

Quote:I found the documentation is not complete, so is it a good idea to begin a new game using Torque2D right now?

Depends on how much documentation you personally need to write games. There's certainly plenty there. Systems like the GUI haven't changed at all and are the same as they were in TGB.

I've personally spent a good proportion of the last two weeks writing documentation and with the new steering committee more tutorials and information will be coming online ASAP.

You've also got the reference documentation that's produced from the codebase here.

Next week I'll be working on the Scene & SceneObject documents.

#2 @Jiao - Do you believe the Sandbox and its toys are stable, interesting, and fun? Almost all of that was written in a month. All of these games were made using the old tech, which had less capabilities, speed, and stability.

More docs will be rolling out each week. You can even request specific docs by posting in this thread. Anyone can view that thread and write docs to submit. If you ever need help before a doc is written, you can post in these forums or join us in our IRC channel:

Server: irc.maxgaming.net
Channel: #garagegames

So, yes. Torque 2D is ready to make a game. I am already working on two.

#3 Torque 2D is ready to make a real game if you are.

#4 This kind of questions always make me smile.

Huh, what do you expect? People saying here " No, don't waste your time, better be off with something else, with something complete, time tested, because you don't want to redo your game" etc. So the community could blacklist you?

I guess now I am.

You said it yourself

Quote:
I found the documentation is not complete, so is it a good idea to begin a new game using Torque2D right now? When the main parts of the documentation, like gui, will be available?

If you are a pro programmer feel free to fill your boots mate.
Otherwise wait till the engine is well polished, patched, with more documentation and tutorials available to the public.

Personally I feel grateful to garagegames for releasing it free to the public.

But then again it feels like a goodbye kiss.

Jiao - In the future be advised to leave your contact email.

#5 @Vlad I - Maybe my poor English caused some misunderstanding. I have never used T2D before, but I do know that Torque2D has been around for a fair while. I have read many threads and blogs about the MIT version, the "Torque 2D MIT (Part x)" series written by Melv May really impressed me, but another blog www.garagegames.com/community/blogs/view/22091 talked about some differences between the legacy engine and the open source one. Since I never used T2D before, I thought that the interface and document of the old T2D may not be apply to the engine in github. I remember Mich said in some thread that the GUI system may be rewritten using sprite component, is that to say the old GUI system will disappear in the future? Which parts should I use and which not? So I asked is Torque2D ready to make a real game.

Open source is a good thing for every developer and game maker, I don't know why garagegames released it free to the public. I think it wasn't for technical reasons, maybe business reasons or others. For developers it doesn't matter, once the core team grows the community will be stronger, though maybe a little different from before.

I don't know why "it feels like a goodby kiss".

#6 Jiao. Just use it, and make games.

#7 @Jiao - All the current systems are ready for use. If we make any plans to change the core, we will be fully transparent about it. This also includes integrating another developer's pull request. Until then, you can make a game with the current T2D without worry.

@Vlad I - "But then again it feels like a goodbye kiss." What do you mean? I'm curious.

#8 I don't think it matters how it "feels" really. What matters is what is. If GG disappeared in the morning then you've still got an open code-base that you could shape into anything you so desire.

#9 I think it is worth reminding, that when you fork the Torque 2D repository, the copy you now have does not automatically update. So if in the future a major system like the GUI does change, you can continue developing your game with the old system without concern. Github is fairly new to me too, but with a bit of extra effort it should be possible to pick and choose what updates you want to introduce into your working project.

#10 @Michael Well it is obvious you guys have other things to do, like making money for the living. Because of that you couldn't continue working on the game engines the way you did.
Which brings us to the conclusion that we will see you less and less, and we gonna miss you.

Hopefully the community will pick it up and the legacy won't be forgotten.

I hope the above explains what I meant.

#11

Quote:Because of that you couldn't continue working on the game engines the way you did.

Completely true. We are working on the engines more now, able to push changes instantly as we see fit. No red tape or installers or monetization to slow us down. I actually feel like everything has been revitalized and I have new motivation to be more active than in the past.

Quote:Which brings us to the conclusion that we will see you less and less, and we gonna miss you.

Ha! I'm not going anywhere. You all can't get rid of me that easily. If anything, I can become more personal and interactive. I'm not bogged down by having to work for paying customers. Now I can work with peers and people who are as passionate about improving and using T2D as much as I am.

#12 @Vlad - have you seen the amount of work Mich and Melv have put into the engine post release? If their current effort is anything to go by, Torque 2D is in good hands. Now, no one can predict how things will be 1, 2, or 5 years from now, but I think we have a lot of reasons to be optimistic.

#13 Thanks. This is really reassuring.

Quote: No red tape or installers or monetization to slow us down.

I haven't thought about this one.

@ Mike Yeah, I've seen it the day before yesterday.

Overall today's our little chat cleared my head of gloom and doom.
Thanks.

#14 Great! Glad we have reassured everyone in this thread of the capabilities of T2D and the commitment from the internal GG team.

#15 I've already switched my current project over to T2D MIT. Granted, most of the project was server side, but I did have to reintegrate RakNet, and all my custom code which was mostly just a drop in from the old TGB.

The only real work I had to do was redoing my chat lobby UI system, which was mostly a breeze. Now I'm just working on syncing my server<->client box2d network model.

I don't see anything so far that would make me put the breaks on using the MIT version.

#16

Quote:Is Torque 2D MIT ready for a real game?

This question is flawed and is of a "when the planets align" outlook. A person of vision does not let the planets align, a visioneer MAKES them align.

It should be written this way:
"Are YOU ready to make a real game?"
or ask yourself:
"Am I willing to do whatever (ethically and legally) it takes to realize my vision?"

The latter has a never say die attitude no matter how polished the code base is. If you get half way through the project and find a key feature missing what are you going to do? You have choices: either find the engine that has that feature (and might be missing other features), find a way to implement that feature (even if you personally cannot do it), complain about how the engine sucks and switch engines, or just give up. Some of these choices will lead you to success, and some will form a pattern of bitterness and a trail of bad vibes.

You will have setbacks, you will feel like you are going backwards, and often you will start over. This is the game, play it.

#17 It shouldn't be written as "Are YOU ready to make a real game?" because that isn't about Torque2D, it's about making games.

There are a near limitless number of ways to make games, including a multitude of other engines, frameworks, or mods.

IMO, this is a legitimate question. Perhaps better phrased as "How does Torque2D compare to other engines/frameworks, and why would I pick it over others?"

I question this myself. Once you get past the basics of input, rendering, and a few basics, what I see as different engines really begin to blur. I already have the basics of a tile based engine in SDL, with entities, animation, and a few problems resolved. It is difficult to risk even more time not making a game to try out an engine that I may not even need anymore.

Most who would ask such questions do not have the professional experience of making a game with an engine, and making a game without one. Quality Answers could come from people with this experience, such as someone saying "What would have taken me 5 months, only took me 1 month thanks to [engine]!" or "It is less of a headache to use [engine] and create entities, than having to make your own entity classes, due to [this reason] or [that typical problem]." Something to explain why using an engine is better than making your own, when other libraries, books, or tutorials, may give you enough code to setup your own engine in a few hours.

Yet the questions still remains: How much time would it actually save compared to writing your own engine using DirectX, OpenGL, or a library like SDL or SFML? Aren't these types of engines more for people who don't really know how to program? What does Torque2D do besides handle input, render, and handle surfaces and entities? Can a person who isn't already a programmer capable of making their own engine, even competant enough to make a game using a scripting engine? Especially if "real game" means something more than a simple mario or galaxia clone.

I believe when people ask "Is Torque2D capable of making a game?" it is asking all of the above, not really a literal statement defined by a vague definition of 'real'.

#18 @RJAG,
The main developers of T2D responded and I had nothing to add on the technical side of "is it ready" or "can it do it". So I took the big picture outlook on the subject that is oft missed by beginners.

I see people, even experienced developers, come and go because the code may not perfectly do what they want. Some of these developers make a lot of noise and blame the tools, GG, or the community. If a person is prepared for the pain that is inevitable they can have the mental tools to deal with that pain. Once a person learns to deal with that pain they are stronger and can push forward. I go through this cycle all the time. I know many other developers do too. Being mentally prepared for the task is more important than the engine selection itself.

As you pointed out the engine does need to match needs as close as possible. Thanks for mentioning that. However, the engine will not match every possible need. This is where the difficulties begin. So since the OP did not post a requirements list I assumed that they were fairly new to game programming. Thus, the "prepare for the pain" mental preparation.

This would not be the first time I had misread what an OP was really asking, and I was probably presumptuous in saying the question is "flawed". Thanks for the feedback. :)

#19 I should learn english well firstly :)
What I asked is that if the interfaces of T2D will be changed recently. Core developers talked about that(the GUI system, and other improvements), I think it's normal for new comers like me to care about it. If more improvements will be done in the following servel months, will some of the interfaces or asset file format change?
Maybe the title should be changed to "Will the new improvements change the interfaces recently?"

#20 @Demolishun - I don't need a "requirements list" really, I know what a 2D game engine is and have read a lot about torque2d.