MY TWO 1/2 CENTS.
by Ron Kapaun · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 02/25/2013 (9:30 pm) · 18 replies
Hey all,
(Not that anyone really cares, but I had to say something) I know this is not probably a 'proper' forum for this sort of thing but, I think it affects all of us that use the digital world to create the alternate reality. First off, those of you that watched the Oscars last night probably know about the "Life of Pi" winning for best visual effects. However, did you also know that the company that supplied the special effects for this film filed for bankruptcy? How? Why? well if you take a look into this industry, you will see a MAJOR problem. For example, did you know that Digital Domain *yes, that... Digital Domain started by James (I am successful and I don't pay anyone for the stuff I make) Cameron did the same thing!)
Here are a couple of links that spell it out:
www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_st_lucie_county/port_st_lucie/digital-domain-layoff...
thebigsocialpicture.blogspot.ro/2013/02/the-oscar-protest-that-you-didnt-know.ht...
And here is a quick link to the amazing work Rhythm and Hues has done, (so that we all can remember and lament)
www.3dtotal.com/index_news_detailed.php?id=11225&type=2#.USxJeFf-WNE
How does this affect our industry? Well, I read tutorials, and info and watch the film industry really close to see 'what's the next new thing?'. Eventually, everything these artists do filters down to our realm. Just look at how 'cinematic' AAA games are now! Do you think we all just 'invented' this stuff? No, we stood on the shoulders of those that passed before us to create our place. Not to mention our brothers that have fallen. Game studios that were underpaid, or received nothing because the title they were working on did not perform to 'industry expectations'. Keep in mind, this does not mean FAILED. Just 'did not perform as expected'.
This leads to layoffs, stress and god knows what else for all the artists that do EXACTLY what WE do each and every day! (Sit in front of a computer and try to come up with the next 'great' thing. Be it indie, AAA, visual effects, or the blessed programers that allow us to do what we do.) Now, I am not saying participate in protests or anything, I just want everyone to be aware that the world is what WE make of it. To quote Fight Club...." We cook your meals, we haul your trash, we connect your calls, we drive your ambulances. We guard you while you sleep. Do not... f**k with us." Would "Life of Pi" have won "Best Visual Effects" if the company that made ALL of the effects stepped away? I don't think so. Just remember, we have SKILLS that others do not. We have TALENT that others do not possess.
Just a comment on the current status of visual designers, and programmers as a whole. We should support each other, across the board.
Keep Doin all that YOU do.
Ron
(Not that anyone really cares, but I had to say something) I know this is not probably a 'proper' forum for this sort of thing but, I think it affects all of us that use the digital world to create the alternate reality. First off, those of you that watched the Oscars last night probably know about the "Life of Pi" winning for best visual effects. However, did you also know that the company that supplied the special effects for this film filed for bankruptcy? How? Why? well if you take a look into this industry, you will see a MAJOR problem. For example, did you know that Digital Domain *yes, that... Digital Domain started by James (I am successful and I don't pay anyone for the stuff I make) Cameron did the same thing!)
Here are a couple of links that spell it out:
www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_st_lucie_county/port_st_lucie/digital-domain-layoff...
thebigsocialpicture.blogspot.ro/2013/02/the-oscar-protest-that-you-didnt-know.ht...
And here is a quick link to the amazing work Rhythm and Hues has done, (so that we all can remember and lament)
www.3dtotal.com/index_news_detailed.php?id=11225&type=2#.USxJeFf-WNE
How does this affect our industry? Well, I read tutorials, and info and watch the film industry really close to see 'what's the next new thing?'. Eventually, everything these artists do filters down to our realm. Just look at how 'cinematic' AAA games are now! Do you think we all just 'invented' this stuff? No, we stood on the shoulders of those that passed before us to create our place. Not to mention our brothers that have fallen. Game studios that were underpaid, or received nothing because the title they were working on did not perform to 'industry expectations'. Keep in mind, this does not mean FAILED. Just 'did not perform as expected'.
This leads to layoffs, stress and god knows what else for all the artists that do EXACTLY what WE do each and every day! (Sit in front of a computer and try to come up with the next 'great' thing. Be it indie, AAA, visual effects, or the blessed programers that allow us to do what we do.) Now, I am not saying participate in protests or anything, I just want everyone to be aware that the world is what WE make of it. To quote Fight Club...." We cook your meals, we haul your trash, we connect your calls, we drive your ambulances. We guard you while you sleep. Do not... f**k with us." Would "Life of Pi" have won "Best Visual Effects" if the company that made ALL of the effects stepped away? I don't think so. Just remember, we have SKILLS that others do not. We have TALENT that others do not possess.
Just a comment on the current status of visual designers, and programmers as a whole. We should support each other, across the board.
Keep Doin all that YOU do.
Ron
About the author
Guy that has been with Torque Game Engines since... well, since here was a Torque Game Engine. (V12 and beyond).
#2
02/26/2013 (9:25 am)
One issue I see with game development is thinking the movie industry is a "good" model to follow. It is stupid and degrades the gaming media. The gaming/interactive media is something entirely different than the indoctrination garbage coming from the MPAA and the RIAA. We have the ability to reach people in ways movies and music cannot. As an industry we should be looking beyond what others have done. We are better than that. 
#3
I believe that it is a hard path to work as a contractual worker or freelance artist but it is necessary if we want things to change. At one point, the tables will turn and the AAA companies will be unable to act like they are doing right now, they will be forced to embrace the world of tomorrow.
Utopian, maybe, but that's how you build a future.
02/26/2013 (9:30 am)
The thing that affects me the most in this is the companies treating workers like they are expendables. Having worked in the games industry for a while, this is routine : long-term employment is an illusion, plan and simple. Same goes for the Visual FX industry.I believe that it is a hard path to work as a contractual worker or freelance artist but it is necessary if we want things to change. At one point, the tables will turn and the AAA companies will be unable to act like they are doing right now, they will be forced to embrace the world of tomorrow.
Utopian, maybe, but that's how you build a future.
#4
02/26/2013 (10:17 am)
Thats why I chose to go with Torque and not with CryEngine, even if its the best engine on the market, but their company policy is awkward, I just like to do my things with ease even if I never see a cent for it. 
#6
02/26/2013 (12:50 pm)
Ops wrong thread... Sorry.
#7
@Dwarf King,
I love your perspective on the markets. The PC will forever be expanding while the consoles will forever be in flux. They are still a market, but I see one day people using phones for that purpose instead. So I think you can safely lump the phones into the PC paradigm.
@Simon,
If you look at trends EVERY industry is moving toward the employee looking out for one self. There are no 30-40 year positions anymore. The market is moving to "pay for performance" rather than "tenure".
@J0linar
@Ron,
After watching the video showing all of the work "Rhythm and Hues" has done it makes me sick to think that they went bankrupt. Also, after understanding how their contracts are manipulated to not have to pay out their fair share is also sick. We don't need that sickness in the game industry! In addition, I don't see this as having anything to do with foreign talent, that just compounds the issue. It is greed and not wanting to fairly compensate a class of talent for their honest work. It is also a warning sign for any industry that wants to participate in such dishonest business tactics. To me that is telling me the media giants have more problems than they are letting on. No wonder they are trying to prevent the internet from being a free market place! They want to keep their dirty little arrangements and dictate the terms of their social agreements in a one sided manner. It is ripe for a revolt against such powers! I completely agree with your challenge for the game industry to wholesale reject this diseased business model from further gaining traction in our industry! I salute your efforts!
02/26/2013 (6:41 pm)
Quote:Program hard and retire youngDon't EVER retire. If you do what you love then you will never want to retire. I would tweak this to say: "Align your passions with your profits. Learn how to leverage your efforts such that your passions do not become your master and bind you into servitude." Most people don't understand how to leverage their efforts. So they end up hating the thing they used to love.
@Dwarf King,
I love your perspective on the markets. The PC will forever be expanding while the consoles will forever be in flux. They are still a market, but I see one day people using phones for that purpose instead. So I think you can safely lump the phones into the PC paradigm.
@Simon,
If you look at trends EVERY industry is moving toward the employee looking out for one self. There are no 30-40 year positions anymore. The market is moving to "pay for performance" rather than "tenure".
@J0linar
Quote:Nice link!I second this remark!
@Ron,
After watching the video showing all of the work "Rhythm and Hues" has done it makes me sick to think that they went bankrupt. Also, after understanding how their contracts are manipulated to not have to pay out their fair share is also sick. We don't need that sickness in the game industry! In addition, I don't see this as having anything to do with foreign talent, that just compounds the issue. It is greed and not wanting to fairly compensate a class of talent for their honest work. It is also a warning sign for any industry that wants to participate in such dishonest business tactics. To me that is telling me the media giants have more problems than they are letting on. No wonder they are trying to prevent the internet from being a free market place! They want to keep their dirty little arrangements and dictate the terms of their social agreements in a one sided manner. It is ripe for a revolt against such powers! I completely agree with your challenge for the game industry to wholesale reject this diseased business model from further gaining traction in our industry! I salute your efforts!
#8
"Cancel your media, cable, etc subscriptions if you have any. I am going to cancel my Netflix and explain that this issue is the reason." It will at least make them think about their position. Money talks.
02/26/2013 (6:55 pm)
BTW, I know one way I can hit the industry in the pocket book over this:"Cancel your media, cable, etc subscriptions if you have any. I am going to cancel my Netflix and explain that this issue is the reason." It will at least make them think about their position. Money talks.
#9
07/03/2013 (6:48 pm)
Agreed, Money talks and BS ends up not finishing what they intended. (look at The Sound Of Thunder versus the original Jurassic Park) I am NOT a person that believes we directly effect the end result. (though, if you think about it, visual (and audio) are what our industry is all about).... I am all about equal pay for results. In other words, if your movie/game is mostly visuals, then PAY for them. Don't cheat some of the hardest working people in your industry. 
#10
It also seems the media doesn't want people to see what really happened at the oscars.
www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/24/jaws-oscars-life-of-pi-_n_2756380.html?utm_hp_...
07/04/2013 (7:49 am)
My son is an artist who wants to get into the games/visual arts arena. This is the reason I told him it was a bad idea. (he doesn't like change) I followed your links. Wow. Some awesome artwork, and the story of Rhythm and Hues and Visual Effects are heartbreaking.It also seems the media doesn't want people to see what really happened at the oscars.
www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/24/jaws-oscars-life-of-pi-_n_2756380.html?utm_hp_...
#11
am sure you are around a looong time
and you are right about tellin your son to not step in
especially since this industry is unpredictable
12-15 years ago it was enough to mod a game to get a chance
today there we got not just the age of the engines but the age of the artists aswell
lookin at what is currently going on
in evry corner - makes probably feel some bad when comparing their skill or whatever
but skill - is something that you learn and earn thru countless hours of actually workin and studying different techniques and approaches
and this is something ppl dont really see or understand when it comes to artists
"evryone admires the art and in its shadow stays the artist itself"
and there are so many roles to play since
in the industry you aren`t going todo all the work alone on a pice of art
take a character
the concept artist draws it
the sculptor - sculpts it and refines and makes the retopo
the animator - rigs it
and even inbetween there are often steps or ppl who do work
some are doin only drawing others mainly 3d
my point here is even if you dont like your sons decission
and even if you dont want it - there are so many roles to choose from
that you should at least supprt him
now in the indie case we all know that its totally different
one man army - thats what indies are usually gettin called
but hey there even some who are actually succesful
times gonna change like they always do.
07/04/2013 (8:41 am)
@Mike Rowleyam sure you are around a looong time
and you are right about tellin your son to not step in
especially since this industry is unpredictable
12-15 years ago it was enough to mod a game to get a chance
today there we got not just the age of the engines but the age of the artists aswell
lookin at what is currently going on
in evry corner - makes probably feel some bad when comparing their skill or whatever
but skill - is something that you learn and earn thru countless hours of actually workin and studying different techniques and approaches
and this is something ppl dont really see or understand when it comes to artists
"evryone admires the art and in its shadow stays the artist itself"
and there are so many roles to play since
in the industry you aren`t going todo all the work alone on a pice of art
take a character
the concept artist draws it
the sculptor - sculpts it and refines and makes the retopo
the animator - rigs it
and even inbetween there are often steps or ppl who do work
some are doin only drawing others mainly 3d
my point here is even if you dont like your sons decission
and even if you dont want it - there are so many roles to choose from
that you should at least supprt him
now in the indie case we all know that its totally different
one man army - thats what indies are usually gettin called
but hey there even some who are actually succesful
times gonna change like they always do.
#12
Back to the subject:
Why are so many big houses not paying their artists/art companies their fair share? They pay the actors high, but not the creators? To me, that makes no sense at all.
07/04/2013 (11:49 am)
As a father, it is my duty to inform. After that, my duty is to support. Back to the subject:
Why are so many big houses not paying their artists/art companies their fair share? They pay the actors high, but not the creators? To me, that makes no sense at all.
#13
For every talented artist, you have a hundred graduates who are willing to accept the shittiest working conditions just for the 'privilege' of working at their 'dream job'.
Actors are what puts asses in seats. If the actor isn't kept content, his performance can actually affect the overall rating of the entire movie. So the industry treats them like precious little unique snowflakes.
On the other hand, I've rarely seen movies bomb solely because their special effects were atrocious. Best example would be Twilight.
The VFX in these movies are laughable, are filled with actors that cannot act, but they serve the purpose of getting young ladies into theater seats, making it a really profitable movie. Why would they invest in artists or care about their working conditions?
07/04/2013 (12:00 pm)
@Mike : Game companies (And VFX / Movie production companies) are extremely lucky in the fact that visual artists are seen as expendable.For every talented artist, you have a hundred graduates who are willing to accept the shittiest working conditions just for the 'privilege' of working at their 'dream job'.
Actors are what puts asses in seats. If the actor isn't kept content, his performance can actually affect the overall rating of the entire movie. So the industry treats them like precious little unique snowflakes.
On the other hand, I've rarely seen movies bomb solely because their special effects were atrocious. Best example would be Twilight.
The VFX in these movies are laughable, are filled with actors that cannot act, but they serve the purpose of getting young ladies into theater seats, making it a really profitable movie. Why would they invest in artists or care about their working conditions?
#14
07/04/2013 (12:01 pm)
I think it is more important to chose what you really like to do, no matter if it is a breadless art or not.
#15
Ron
07/04/2013 (2:06 pm)
Breadless Art .... I like that. And Simon is right. You get a ton of graduates that really don't know a whole heck of a lot. They get a 'dream gig' and think life is grand. Problem is, the company they work for probably undersold the bid for the project so, they work the guys and girls like dogs just to maybe break even. I think the VFX industry needs to do a reality check with producers and studios. The stuff they are trying to pull off is not easy and with modern audiences getting more and more sophisticated at spotting bad effects.... eventually, these companies are going to either have rethink the business model or they will all vanish and we will have huge summer block busters that take place in someone's apartment.... with 2 hours of just dialog.... Ron
#16
http://youtu.be/41hv2tW5Lc4
Their latest.
I didn't look to see what the budget was, but they did a great job with what they had. Acting was not great, but that might have been because most of them were not native English speakers and that makes it tough to get the lines to feel right.
Now, if Hollywood could turn around, look at this and say "yeah, we can make a pretty nice flick with great effects and cool stuff without screwing everyone involved to death" that would be great.
07/04/2013 (5:35 pm)
Everyone keeps up with Blender's open movie projects, right?http://youtu.be/41hv2tW5Lc4
Their latest.
I didn't look to see what the budget was, but they did a great job with what they had. Acting was not great, but that might have been because most of them were not native English speakers and that makes it tough to get the lines to feel right.
Now, if Hollywood could turn around, look at this and say "yeah, we can make a pretty nice flick with great effects and cool stuff without screwing everyone involved to death" that would be great.
#17
And that's the important bit right there! ;)
07/05/2013 (7:00 am)
Quote:
they did a great job with what they had
And that's the important bit right there! ;)
#18
Yeah... I follow the Blender projects ALWAYS. The link you provided is an AMAZING example of people that are truly passionate about VFX. Keep in mind that EVERYTHING (tools etc.) created to make this project a reality went BACK into the next release of Blender.... You can even DL the individual scenes to see the breakout of how it was done. We could take a lesson or two from these projects. In fact, I have been pushing to use a similar model for T3D, if that is going to happen I will likely have to step up and lead the first trial. Anyway, thanks for pointing out what (I believe) is a successful open source business model.
Ron
07/05/2013 (5:46 pm)
Richard and All,Yeah... I follow the Blender projects ALWAYS. The link you provided is an AMAZING example of people that are truly passionate about VFX. Keep in mind that EVERYTHING (tools etc.) created to make this project a reality went BACK into the next release of Blender.... You can even DL the individual scenes to see the breakout of how it was done. We could take a lesson or two from these projects. In fact, I have been pushing to use a similar model for T3D, if that is going to happen I will likely have to step up and lead the first trial. Anyway, thanks for pointing out what (I believe) is a successful open source business model.
Ron
J0linar
the common people do not understand what it takes to make something
like the Life of Pi / neither do the big corps/ companies care about
artists as there are plenty of us and everyone is replaceable even a whole studio if it doesnt deliver and even if it delivers
it can end up bad = somehow the logic fails
from my pov the digital art is the new medium
looking back @ the past centurys
it evolved to this day where u can achieve/ realize and complete something in less time
i would like u all to direct to this thread @ blenderartists.org
blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?273033-Sculpting-with-UVs-and-displaceme...
where u can see an example of what i mean and some of you might even get a idea or 2 how to accomplish something by viewing.
What would have Michelangelo accomplished if he had what we have today
(Besides that he would constantly moan about wrong physics and so on ;) )
Now after writin this it does look like am moving away from the subject but believe me this is a major part