T3D 1.2 Pro - Strange specular highlight behavior with tone maps (screenshots included)
by Bryce · in Torque 3D Professional · 11/07/2012 (8:20 pm) · 16 replies
Build: 1.2 Pro
Platform: Windows 7 64-bit
Hey fellas,
I've got a level I've built out of a COLLADA in Blender. I baked the shadows/AO in Blender into a 2048x2048 PNG file, and specified that image in the ToneMap field of each material. Then, I added point lights around my level to represent the ones I have in my Blender file.
Once I give a normal map to a material and turn on specular, the specular highlights from the point lights show up very oddly. Instead of a smooth fade out from top to bottom, they form these hard, circular edges, like this:
And the worst offender:
Specular highlights show up beautifully on anything without a tone map. Why is it that materials with tone maps show speculars in such an odd way? Any thoughts? Has the been fixed or reported before?
Thanks everyone!
-Bryce
Platform: Windows 7 64-bit
Hey fellas,
I've got a level I've built out of a COLLADA in Blender. I baked the shadows/AO in Blender into a 2048x2048 PNG file, and specified that image in the ToneMap field of each material. Then, I added point lights around my level to represent the ones I have in my Blender file.
Once I give a normal map to a material and turn on specular, the specular highlights from the point lights show up very oddly. Instead of a smooth fade out from top to bottom, they form these hard, circular edges, like this:
And the worst offender:
Specular highlights show up beautifully on anything without a tone map. Why is it that materials with tone maps show speculars in such an odd way? Any thoughts? Has the been fixed or reported before?
Thanks everyone!
-Bryce
#2
11/07/2012 (10:37 pm)
Just played around with the alpha channel, it doesn't seem to make a difference in any way. Good shot, though. 
#3
Disable one of the advanced lightmap settings (just rolled out of bed, first cuppa tea, can't remember what it's called) in theLevelInfo.
11/08/2012 (6:39 am)
Tonemaps shouldn't have alpha channels.Disable one of the advanced lightmap settings (just rolled out of bed, first cuppa tea, can't remember what it's called) in theLevelInfo.
#4
and others just look...erm...
11/08/2012 (8:24 am)
@Steve: AdvancedLightMapSupport in theLevelInfo? Disabled it, things became much, much worse. Some areas lost specular entirely:and others just look...erm...
#5
And this is what happens when I spend time away from the editors. My memory becomes more fallible!
11/08/2012 (9:31 am)
Point lights default to a spherical cast. You can change it to a cube to get rid of the rounded areas. I am not sure on softening the edges, though. It's been a while since I got into the lighting system. Our QA lead, Ray, came to me about the circular cast just the other day, and I hadn't realized it could be changed to a cube at the time. He's the one that pointed that out.And this is what happens when I spend time away from the editors. My memory becomes more fallible!
#6
11/08/2012 (10:06 am)
Bryce, as Steve mentioned, tonemaps shouldn't have an alpha channel at all. You're using a 32bit RGBA when you need to use a 24 bit RGB instead, if I'm reading things correctly.
#7
@Dan: 24bit? I'll look into it. Do you know off the top of your head if PNG is the best format for lightmaps?
11/08/2012 (4:39 pm)
@David: I'm not seeing anything in the PointMap fields about cast shape. Is this something I access on the engine side of things?@Dan: 24bit? I'll look into it. Do you know off the top of your head if PNG is the best format for lightmaps?
#8
Select your point light, and under Advanced Lighting, select CubeMap under the shadowType. There may be a performance hit. There are a number of other settings there as well.
11/08/2012 (4:52 pm)
It's in the point light settings.Select your point light, and under Advanced Lighting, select CubeMap under the shadowType. There may be a performance hit. There are a number of other settings there as well.
#9
One thing I noticed, however. If I select my point light in the editor, a sphere is drawn around it representing the radius of the light. The strange specular circles seem to follow the contours of that sphere.
11/08/2012 (4:58 pm)
No dice, doesn't change a thing. I also should have mentioned I've got representedInLightmap turned on for all point lights so they only light players.One thing I noticed, however. If I select my point light in the editor, a sphere is drawn around it representing the radius of the light. The strange specular circles seem to follow the contours of that sphere.
#10
11/08/2012 (5:08 pm)
Also, I saw some strange artifacts until I adjusted the post effects, too.
#11
11/08/2012 (8:24 pm)
I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. Is this the result of some HDR setting?
#12
I think DMB (that's you, David) may be onto something with the postfx idea. I'm actually thinking that it may be related to the ssao and normal map blurring.
11/08/2012 (8:56 pm)
Bryce, could you send me that tonemap for me to look at please? I'll try and recreate this and see if I can't figure out what's going on. Email is in my profile.I think DMB (that's you, David) may be onto something with the postfx idea. I'm actually thinking that it may be related to the ssao and normal map blurring.
#13
Just for the record: I have SSAO turned off, HDR turned on.
11/08/2012 (9:02 pm)
@Dan: bryce.abigholeintheweb.com/airPort1Lmap.png Let me know if you want the rest of the files as well.Just for the record: I have SSAO turned off, HDR turned on.
#14
11/08/2012 (9:31 pm)
Sweet. I'm on it. Cheers for that, Bryce. I'll have a look at the HDR settings only.
#15
11/08/2012 (9:33 pm)
Thanks for the help! This issue has been driving me out of my mind for months.
#16
Until... dun dun dun! I touched the Minaert constant (materials editor for the ground plane I tested with) in Lighting Properties for that material. It also seems to be hooked up to the HDR Brightness settings. Namely, Tonemap Contrast.
Also, the bit depth of the tonemap did nothing at all (I duplicated your 32 bit into a 24 bit). I have screenshots which I'll post as soon as photobucket is back up. Might need to be patient for that though, as I'm almost dead in my chair here and I'm starting to zone out.
Anyway, hopefully this helps you along.
11/08/2012 (10:19 pm)
Ok I couldn't reproduce this at all with any settings I tried in either the material properties of a given surface, or the point light itself. Until... dun dun dun! I touched the Minaert constant (materials editor for the ground plane I tested with) in Lighting Properties for that material. It also seems to be hooked up to the HDR Brightness settings. Namely, Tonemap Contrast.
Also, the bit depth of the tonemap did nothing at all (I duplicated your 32 bit into a 24 bit). I have screenshots which I'll post as soon as photobucket is back up. Might need to be patient for that though, as I'm almost dead in my chair here and I'm starting to zone out.
Anyway, hopefully this helps you along.
Torque Owner Dan Webb
PsyCandy Games
Just throwing them out there in case something sticks.