Is first person shooter cooperative RPG still a viable genre?

#1 Boarderlands 2 is selling in the multi Millions of dollars and that is a FPS Coop RPG.

I would say yes.

#2 Something that is more elaborate than borderland grindfest would be nice tho.

#3 Original Unreal coop and System Shock 2 are two of my favorites.

#4 System Shock 2 was a great example indeed, it just didn't scale well in difficulty with multiple players.

But it was a great game still and a good example of how to do things "right"

#5 To me one strength of SS2 was the RPG elements of character progression, gear progression, and player customizable specialization were well balanced with combat in terms of game mechanics. It didn't feel like an FPS with RPG tacked on as an afterthought. The two blended well.

#6 another interesting thing is that enemies respawned indefinitely, while gear did not. You where not in a hurry, but the clock was in essence against you so you couldn't just "oh yeah lets just sit in a corner of this cleared section while my power regenerate"

#7 The Path of Neo was somewhat of an RPG FPS. I really enjoyed that game and it did one rare thing. It gave you the same feeling as the movies did. A path of progression and gaining of strength and wisdom.

Yes, I know it is not cooperative, but if something like the mechanics of PON were to be applied in a coop game it could be a lot of fun.

#8 Apparently, you haven't haven't played RAGE by Bethesda Softworks. Then again, ever since Oblvion I've been a Bethesda fanboy (yeah, I'm trying to keep my language civil), so my opinion is definitely biased. I've only downloaded the demo on my Xbox, and havn't gotten pass by the Water works yet. (in most RPGs, I realize that is only the prologue) and it is definitely on my must-buy list. Then there is Mass Effect 3. I downloaded that on my Xbox as well, and it made by bucket list of games to buy this XMas.

#9 Yes, the key word being "cooperative". I think the opportunities for PvE are vast and untapped. It is hard to provide challenge and fun, but doing so with co-op is even harder.

Still, this means there are opportunities to do a multiplayer co-op, first person RPG...a modern day Heretic. Hitting the quality bar to be competitive will be a challenge...

#10 Richard Garriot's Tabula Rasa went the way of the dodo, but the "genre" is still very viable in my opinion. The thing is, it'll be limited to F2P I think.

Check out Global Agenda for a glimpse of what sort of games will be popular in a year or two (unless I'm wrong).


I actually have a feeling that the mmorpg is going to fracture into co-op pve and arena style pvp games set within the same game world. This, coupled with F2P becoming ever more popular a choice for developers seeking financial backing mean that cooperative multiplayer shooters (with or without rpg elements) should become our bread and butter in the not-too-distant future.

That's my two cents.

#11 Great comments. I appreciate the feedback.

Touching on a few:


>> ...a modern day Heretic.

I loved Heretic II played cooperatively. I'll have to dig mine out and play it again.


>> Hitting the quality bar to be competitive will be a challenge.

Agreed. Between increases in graphical presentation of character and environment, and raising the bar on polish, complexity and level of completion, an Indie producing anything close to competitive is a long shot.


>> I actually have a feeling that the mmorpg is going to fracture into co-op pve and arena style pvp games set within the same game world.

I agree. I think this is already in motion. Personally I split the fragmentation into three parts:

1. SP RPG storyline mode with cut scenes
2. Instanced co-op RPG with automatic grouping
3. Instanced BG / Arena PVP of either pre-mades or automatic groups

The other side relating to PVE in MMORPGs is that many equate it with third person perspective and tab-target mechanics. This is actually the core of my concern.

Drop players into a multiplayer 3D environment in first person with aimed guns (or melee and spells if medieval fantasy), and it seems they immediately jump to the conclusion that it's a PVP game. Maybe it's a false assumption on my part, but it scares the dickens out of me.

Of anything involved in game creation, the game design side is toughest for me. I know what I don't want to build (quest-hub hopping, full loot FFA PVP, or player created content). But trying to figure out what I do want to build is an overwhelming task.

So I come here and ask for guidance :-)

#12 I'm with you on the design front, Kenneth. I can make pretty maps, but giving it direction is really difficult for me. Making it look like a game, rather than just an interactive environment.

Maybe we could collaborate in a mutually beneficial self-training excercise? Not sure how that would work, but I find working with others increases my motivation levels exponentially.

Maybe some other people would care to do something along these lines?

#13 Kenneth have you thought about putting players in a non combat stance by default? Could change the player's point of view on the game?

#14 @Dan,
Maybe what you can do for level design (which is probably similar to writer's block) is to create some simple game types. Except don't include the player initially as a participant. Perhaps an observer camera. Create a bunch of bots that "play" the game and the observers can follow them, watch the bots interact, etc.

So, for example, look at doing some simple DM, CTF, Team DM, etc game modes. Then you can look at adding bases, interactive objects, etc. This will force you to look at: balancing game play, assessing level layout for different game modes, level flow, and more. From there you can expand into single player games as well. You can look at the level sequentially for things like: gear drops, hiding places for player and npcs, structures, unique enemies (like snipers in HL2), and other mechanics. Another thing you can think about is solving puzzles. Doom 3 seemed to me to be a puzzle game in a lot of respects.

#15 @Kyrah

That could work. I'm also looking into blending non-combat activity into the mix such as harvesting, crafting, begging, thieving, etc.

I'm not solid on a setting yet. The artwork I have is a mix of medieval fantasy and industrial sci-fi. That sort of fits with the "dragons and lasers" suggestion, but I don't have the vision to imagine it.

I had a brief overlap with Matrix Online and a bit of an emotional attachment to build a metro-city game. One suggestion was to blend MxO with BladeRunner style gritty metropolitan. One problem there is that MMO style grinding wouldn't make much sense in that environment. What fun is there walking into an office building and shooting up unarmed office workers. "Oh look, there's a woman at the copier" *blam blam blam* Sounds silly huh?

#16 Loosely place your characters in a <insert creature here> infested world. You have to set it in a world that is struggling with survival or a false sense of security. It could be interesting mixing urban environments with mythological creatures. I can't remember the name of the RPG, but there was a pen and paper game that did this. They had mythological creatures appear because of genetic mutations. What would be neat is running over a minotaur with a Hummer. Perhaps some creatures hole up Jersey. Perhaps you have a run in with the real Jersey Devil. Lots of places to go with this. New York would make for a really interesting urban jungle. You can also do an alternate history mix too. No reason you can't bank on Steam Punk as well.

#17 Final Fantasy Spirits Within (movie) was a near future sci-fi with alien infestation (aka phantoms) here on Earth. There were a few dome covered cities left for human habitation, but most of the world was infested.

I only recall 2 non safe-city settings. One was old New York (?) which was just ruins with rusting half-burnt cars laying around and decayed apartment buildings. The other was desert / bad-lands like, a location of a former military battle with the phantoms.

I'll kick the infestation part around for a bit. Fried at the moment, and not thinking so clearly.

#18 These are all fantastic suggestions. Thanks particularly to Frank. I have some ideas.

One thing I've worked out is to emulate the prefab system in Torque. Instead of designing a whole level, I'm focusing on encounters. So, I think of an encounter, say spaceship lands and unloads aliens which run around securing the drop zone. So, I place some buildings for the aliens to enter and search, and I pretty much have a start right there. Once I have a few of these encounters I just string them together for a very rough campaign.

#19 This is the world I was thinking about:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadowrun
Edit:
Some more to peruse:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_role-playing_games