Why is Torque 3D completely ignored?
by William McDonald · in General Discussion · 08/18/2012 (7:33 pm) · 51 replies
Everyone I'm friends with seems to getting on the Unity band wagon. I of course mention Torque 3D and usually I get blank stares as a response. Basicly it's kind of like developing for the Windows 7 Phone. Most people don't even know it exists (to the point where my bank's app says, "Supports all smart phones" yet they only have Android, iPhone and Blackberry) and there isn't a lot of 3rd party action going on. Yes there are some amazing artist producing content for T3D, but compared to the sheer volume available to Unity it's not exactly a level playing field.
I've also noticed the sheer volume of Kickstarters using or supporting Unity. WasteLand 2, among many other games that could easily be done in Torque... I think it's basically coming down to Android support. Everyone seems to be on that open/multi platform band wagon and Torque is quickly becoming irrelevant.
Ouya is an amazing opertunity for new game companies to get their game on an open platform, but Torque doesn't support Android like Unity does.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ouya/ouya-a-new-kind-of-video-game-console?ref=live
Why is Oculus supporting five other engines off the bat, including unity, but not Torque?
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1523379957/oculus-rift-step-into-the-game?ref=discover_pop
I just get this feeling that Torque 3d is getting buried by Unity. I'm still developing with it and I'm generally happy with it (except for some minor builder bugs and getting some of the 3rd party plug ins to work nicely together). But it's getting to the point where people don't want to work on a project unless it's Unity based. Is there a way for Torque to gain some kind spotlight again?
I should also add that I had a curious experience with some potential investors recently. I had been working with a startup accelerator for a few months and everything was going well, they liked our game for the most part (some thought it was "too hard") and we were talking some serious money (for me anyway ~100-200k), but then one of them asked if we could export it for Flash and Android. I had to explain that that we couldn't do that without redoing it in an alternative engine. They couldn't understand the fact that it was built in Torque X and couldn't just be ported over to Android, iPhone or Flash with a click of the button like Unity can. I mentioned that with the money they were offering we could hire additional programmers and port it over, but basically they wanted a Flash version to test the waters with the product before investing heavy coin. Which we weren't expecting, considering they played the game, liked the game and we provided them with statistical data and the actual feedback we got from various testers. Then they brought up Kickstarter. We told them we had already done Kickstarter (which they should know considering the data was in our original proposal) and it pulled in $5400 to which they responded with, "is that all" and so I went about showing them the stats of the other games that were on there back when we did it (This was BEFORE DOUBLE FINE made KickStarter the place to poop gold) and the fact was we pulled in twice the amount of most games on there at the time. With that kind of turn out, that should have shown there was interest in our type of game, we also did public testing events at a couple of colleges and got a lot of good/positive feedback, but suddenly they weren't impressed with our game anymore. It's very frustrating.
I guess this is a bitch blog more than a forum post, sorry, but I'm curious if anyone else has had these kind of experiences and what they think the future of Torque 3d is going to be. We have T3D as well as TX and our next game will be in T3D, but I'm afraid of a similar event when we try to get money.
I've also noticed the sheer volume of Kickstarters using or supporting Unity. WasteLand 2, among many other games that could easily be done in Torque... I think it's basically coming down to Android support. Everyone seems to be on that open/multi platform band wagon and Torque is quickly becoming irrelevant.
Ouya is an amazing opertunity for new game companies to get their game on an open platform, but Torque doesn't support Android like Unity does.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ouya/ouya-a-new-kind-of-video-game-console?ref=live
Why is Oculus supporting five other engines off the bat, including unity, but not Torque?
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1523379957/oculus-rift-step-into-the-game?ref=discover_pop
I just get this feeling that Torque 3d is getting buried by Unity. I'm still developing with it and I'm generally happy with it (except for some minor builder bugs and getting some of the 3rd party plug ins to work nicely together). But it's getting to the point where people don't want to work on a project unless it's Unity based. Is there a way for Torque to gain some kind spotlight again?
I should also add that I had a curious experience with some potential investors recently. I had been working with a startup accelerator for a few months and everything was going well, they liked our game for the most part (some thought it was "too hard") and we were talking some serious money (for me anyway ~100-200k), but then one of them asked if we could export it for Flash and Android. I had to explain that that we couldn't do that without redoing it in an alternative engine. They couldn't understand the fact that it was built in Torque X and couldn't just be ported over to Android, iPhone or Flash with a click of the button like Unity can. I mentioned that with the money they were offering we could hire additional programmers and port it over, but basically they wanted a Flash version to test the waters with the product before investing heavy coin. Which we weren't expecting, considering they played the game, liked the game and we provided them with statistical data and the actual feedback we got from various testers. Then they brought up Kickstarter. We told them we had already done Kickstarter (which they should know considering the data was in our original proposal) and it pulled in $5400 to which they responded with, "is that all" and so I went about showing them the stats of the other games that were on there back when we did it (This was BEFORE DOUBLE FINE made KickStarter the place to poop gold) and the fact was we pulled in twice the amount of most games on there at the time. With that kind of turn out, that should have shown there was interest in our type of game, we also did public testing events at a couple of colleges and got a lot of good/positive feedback, but suddenly they weren't impressed with our game anymore. It's very frustrating.
I guess this is a bitch blog more than a forum post, sorry, but I'm curious if anyone else has had these kind of experiences and what they think the future of Torque 3d is going to be. We have T3D as well as TX and our next game will be in T3D, but I'm afraid of a similar event when we try to get money.
About the author
I am the grand bureaucrat of SuckerFree Games. I now have one game in distribution, "Kobold's Quest" and another is soon to be published, "Dungeons the Eye of Draconus". My day job is as a Videographer.
#2
08/18/2012 (7:54 pm)
I like T3D, but it's just weird to have people not want to work with you, because you're not using the new golden child Unity. 
#3
08/18/2012 (9:31 pm)
T3D announcement coming soon, update will be free, no other details at this point.
#4
Unity is a closed source engine (ofc you can buy the source for lots of $$)
While the T3D source is much cheaper and more accessible.
Unity is limited to the features already integrated (AFAIK) And T3D is easily extensible.
But Unity got a much more soften learning curve and is very easy on beginners.
Which is why I think Unity is so populare. If you don't need at lot of features then it's free, drag and drop design leads to more newcomers using it leading to more profitable for creating stuff for the asset store leading to more people using Unity because of the big asset store.
IMO it seems like a similar asset store for Torque could boost it's popularity, as many people, myself included, are willing to develop content for T3D but need an easy way to publish it.
08/19/2012 (1:22 am)
You can't really compare the two.Unity is a closed source engine (ofc you can buy the source for lots of $$)
While the T3D source is much cheaper and more accessible.
Unity is limited to the features already integrated (AFAIK) And T3D is easily extensible.
But Unity got a much more soften learning curve and is very easy on beginners.
Which is why I think Unity is so populare. If you don't need at lot of features then it's free, drag and drop design leads to more newcomers using it leading to more profitable for creating stuff for the asset store leading to more people using Unity because of the big asset store.
IMO it seems like a similar asset store for Torque could boost it's popularity, as many people, myself included, are willing to develop content for T3D but need an easy way to publish it.
#5
08/19/2012 (4:41 am)
I don't think Torque 3D is being completely ignored, just misplaced - Just like Lukas it needs a large library of 3rd party packs to encourage growth and will help the community thrive - I have about 6 packs and a few tools that could go into the store, but there's just too much red tape and accountancy fees to setup the processes that would not justify me putting them in the store as I wouldn't re-coup the costs in the short term. Many people also don't blog or post on the forums, at least not regularly - I myself stopped blogging - just don't have the time right now - but again, adding value creates a knock on effect to encourage these sort of things on a site. We need something like CodeCanyon/ActiveDen where you can upload your tools/packs and make revenue within a 30-60 day holding term to avoid charge backs at GGs end.
#6
If I get the product library "release ready" it could possibly cover the lack of an asset store but it needs alot of PR or it will get lost in time.
08/19/2012 (5:18 am)
I could possibly throw something up in conjunction with the product library, but it would take time as I don't have much time available atm.If I get the product library "release ready" it could possibly cover the lack of an asset store but it needs alot of PR or it will get lost in time.
#7
In the last year over 20K software packages were added to T3D.
We have seen a .NET extension added to allow the game code to be written in any .NET language.
We have also seen the recast resource.
There was a bug fix / upgrade last November that included a ton of graphics resources were added.
New content packs were added.
Finally the CE project is starting to take off. This is doing some of the ground work for making the engine more stable.
As to why people would be using Unity. The perception I see is that Unity is easy, is simpler, you can make a game faster, etc. However, there is nothing easy or simple about making a game. There is nothing simple or easy about pursuing and achieving success in any endeavor. People have a tendency to do what is easier or perceived to be easier.
In my opinion I think people will make great game with other engines. However, the deviation from the status quo for games with little access to the internals will be boiler plate games. To be really honest that will be what most arm chair developers would have made with any engine. For those wanting to explore new gaming experiences that require access to the internals then they will drift to an engine with more access to the internals. If T3D has the features they need it will suffice, if not it might be Source, or Unity, or etc.
@William,
If the investor needs the game to be in flash then port it to an engine that can be in flash. The first question I would ask though is, "Can it be ported to flash? Is flash up to the task?" It sounds like the investors do not really understand software development. Perhaps find other investors?
I bet even with Unity that it is not as simple as re-targeting a game. How does it deal with features not supported in flash or android that are supported on the PC? There would still be a requirement to rewrite something. I am pretty sure my Android phone could not handle anything like the Xbox 360 can.
08/19/2012 (8:11 am)
I just don't understand why people are thinking the engine is being ignored.In the last year over 20K software packages were added to T3D.
We have seen a .NET extension added to allow the game code to be written in any .NET language.
We have also seen the recast resource.
There was a bug fix / upgrade last November that included a ton of graphics resources were added.
New content packs were added.
Finally the CE project is starting to take off. This is doing some of the ground work for making the engine more stable.
As to why people would be using Unity. The perception I see is that Unity is easy, is simpler, you can make a game faster, etc. However, there is nothing easy or simple about making a game. There is nothing simple or easy about pursuing and achieving success in any endeavor. People have a tendency to do what is easier or perceived to be easier.
In my opinion I think people will make great game with other engines. However, the deviation from the status quo for games with little access to the internals will be boiler plate games. To be really honest that will be what most arm chair developers would have made with any engine. For those wanting to explore new gaming experiences that require access to the internals then they will drift to an engine with more access to the internals. If T3D has the features they need it will suffice, if not it might be Source, or Unity, or etc.
@William,
If the investor needs the game to be in flash then port it to an engine that can be in flash. The first question I would ask though is, "Can it be ported to flash? Is flash up to the task?" It sounds like the investors do not really understand software development. Perhaps find other investors?
I bet even with Unity that it is not as simple as re-targeting a game. How does it deal with features not supported in flash or android that are supported on the PC? There would still be a requirement to rewrite something. I am pretty sure my Android phone could not handle anything like the Xbox 360 can.
#8
correct.and current flash port has lots of bugs and performance issue.also to be able to post a game into another platform u have to keep it in mind from the beginning of the development.otherwise u will never be able to port it easily(most of the time u will have to rewrite whole game).just do a search on unity's iphone port guide.lot of things u have to consider.
"Unity is a closed source engine (ofc you can buy the source for lots of $$)"
that is completely useless when u are not a programmer and u do not have money to heir someone to do your coding.
unity's easiness and excellent interface system(to support external addons) has made it not too much importnt to others.
i just wandering if unity make it's source available to others,then which one would be better?t3d or unity?
". We need something like CodeCanyon/ActiveDen"
i also had a plan for it and started to work with it.but during the development i realize i hate webpage related things.
"I just don't understand why people are thinking the engine is being ignored"
may be,those feature were not in their wanted list.nor those pack.
may be they want some highlighted things like multiplatform support.....(mans's wish list big and varies)
08/19/2012 (8:52 am)
Quote:
I bet even with Unity that it is not as simple as re-targeting a game. How does it deal with features not supported in flash or android that are supported on the PC? There would still be a requirement to rewrite something. I am pretty sure my Android phone could not handle anything like the Xbox 360 can.
correct.and current flash port has lots of bugs and performance issue.also to be able to post a game into another platform u have to keep it in mind from the beginning of the development.otherwise u will never be able to port it easily(most of the time u will have to rewrite whole game).just do a search on unity's iphone port guide.lot of things u have to consider.
"Unity is a closed source engine (ofc you can buy the source for lots of $$)"
that is completely useless when u are not a programmer and u do not have money to heir someone to do your coding.
unity's easiness and excellent interface system(to support external addons) has made it not too much importnt to others.
i just wandering if unity make it's source available to others,then which one would be better?t3d or unity?
". We need something like CodeCanyon/ActiveDen"
i also had a plan for it and started to work with it.but during the development i realize i hate webpage related things.
"I just don't understand why people are thinking the engine is being ignored"
may be,those feature were not in their wanted list.nor those pack.
may be they want some highlighted things like multiplatform support.....(mans's wish list big and varies)
#9
Like this page written in Spring 2012 mentions TGE and TGEA but not T3D
same for the wikipedia list
When I see someone compare Torque with Unity online or elsewhere they still compare it to TGE and TGEA for some reason even tho T3D was released 3 years ago!
But hell I haven't read a lot of those threads lately after settling for T3D for now.
08/19/2012 (9:02 am)
I see T3D as being ignored because whenever you read about game engines etc etc on the net people never mention Torque3D, it seems to have been forgotten which is a shame. I might be wrong ofc but that is my impression.Like this page written in Spring 2012 mentions TGE and TGEA but not T3D
same for the wikipedia list
When I see someone compare Torque with Unity online or elsewhere they still compare it to TGE and TGEA for some reason even tho T3D was released 3 years ago!
But hell I haven't read a lot of those threads lately after settling for T3D for now.
#10
You can change the wikipedia list to add T3D products yourself if you feel like this is an injustice or mistake. From the number of engines compared I don't think the person really had the time to make sure every engine was covered in any detail.
08/19/2012 (10:39 am)
Oh, I completely misunderstood the context. You are not talking about GG ignoring T3D. You are talking about the world ignoring T3D. Perhaps the sentiment is that GG nearly went under and so it does not look like a stable contender. As soon as someone releases a successful title or two and makes some noise that will change. I know I am going to.You can change the wikipedia list to add T3D products yourself if you feel like this is an injustice or mistake. From the number of engines compared I don't think the person really had the time to make sure every engine was covered in any detail.
#11
As for being ignored, GarageGames did lose their ground a little bit (appear to have gotten beat at their own game) and are (too) slowly recovering it in order to garner all of the press attention. Throw in the higher learning curve and the more mature forum crowd, Torque just isn't the cool new toy that all of the kids, I mean game developers, want to play with.
Unity truly is easier to use and is very flexible. But have you noticed the number of indie developers and studios who started out using Unity, who soon after a successful release decide to either switch to something else (with source) or develop their own in-house engine?
In the end, despite any brand loyalty, it's a matter of what Tool works best for the given task and gets the job done.
08/19/2012 (12:18 pm)
The Unity AssetStore may be a bit easier to get things into, but look at the amount of garbage (cheap and overpriced) that clutters up the store. At least GarageGames has a higher desire for quality, than they do. We didn't have any harder of a time getting things into the GarageGames store than the Unity store -- so I've never understood that gripe. I'm not going to debate fees and price ratios, which were reasonable in comparison to other locations. However, it has come to my attention that developers outside of the US have some difficulties/concern with the GarageGames store and tax laws, so that could be an impediment for them, but not an insurmountable one. I would much rather see the continued high(er) bar for quality than for GarageGames to let just anybody upload some piece of crap code or artwork that I would never use.As for being ignored, GarageGames did lose their ground a little bit (appear to have gotten beat at their own game) and are (too) slowly recovering it in order to garner all of the press attention. Throw in the higher learning curve and the more mature forum crowd, Torque just isn't the cool new toy that all of the kids, I mean game developers, want to play with.
Unity truly is easier to use and is very flexible. But have you noticed the number of indie developers and studios who started out using Unity, who soon after a successful release decide to either switch to something else (with source) or develop their own in-house engine?
In the end, despite any brand loyalty, it's a matter of what Tool works best for the given task and gets the job done.
#12
But exactly that about being in Europe and selling through GG in US is somewhat troublesome, and I haven't really worked through the pdf files they sent me. But it is somewhat of a project for an upcoming student with little time on my hands.
08/19/2012 (12:32 pm)
Kindda agreeing with you Michael, the GG store does have a quality standard. And for me that makes up for higher ratio because it has a quality standard and fewer items so it is worth more to have your product in the GG store than in the asset store.But exactly that about being in Europe and selling through GG in US is somewhat troublesome, and I haven't really worked through the pdf files they sent me. But it is somewhat of a project for an upcoming student with little time on my hands.
#13
08/19/2012 (2:18 pm)
I agree on the quality thing, but that doesn't mean to say the quality bar should not stop, just making it easier for outside US devs to get their products in the store - not sure on the legal side, but having a contract that states the tax declaration in their own country is down to them. My accountant wants $400-500 (US equivalent) to explain and sort out the requirements for US trading with GG, now that's a big chunk of my sales, and I'm not even sure I'd get it back or break even in the short term until the community is back there. Having to deal with one tax system is bad enough, let alone two :) So for the moment, it's not worth it - but keen to revisit at a later date. 
#14
08/19/2012 (2:19 pm)
I agree with all garagegames does have a higher quality standard for the asset. Honestly, the only thing that unity is really beating T3D is the asset at the store. Plus, it has some pretty good games that have been developed with it. Now with the new features being added to unity 4, I'm not so sure. Anyways like Frank said let a couple of good game get released with T3D and I think that would bring some interest back. Also, just a note to 3rd party developers looking to do some thing new. Try looking at some of the assets on unity's store, to get an idea of what would be good for T3D. Of course, if the art is up to par then more than likely it would sell.
#15
there are many(60-70) t3d game published by indie.do not know how much successful those are.but most of their developer are hobbyist.not professional.and i think many member of these community are not directly related to game development.although t3d is an excellent engine but u need a good art team.which means also cost to support it.
which is not possible for an individual person.look at winterleaf.even they are hiering their artist with a hope of future payment.when they cannot bear the cost then do not think that you will be able to bear that amount of money to produce successful title.
now look into unity3d.
"The Unity AssetStore may be a bit easier to get things into, but look at the amount of garbage (cheap and overpriced) that clutters up the store."
yes.but the good part is that most of those are cheap.
bad thing is they are garbage.but when u do not have money than be Intellectual.
throw out one's bad parts and combine other's good parts.u will get what u want(not 100%).and at a cheap price.
do we have that option here?????
no.
u have to use gg's store things(many of them high price and u only need some part of it.not full one) or have to hire someone to support your work(artist or coder).also there are problems
as there is not a big fan group of t3d,so u have to rely on community members if they are ready to do your freelance work.and as there is no big competetion so cost will be high.
now unity part,
in almost all freelancing site u will get people who knows unity.and for competetion they will charge u always small.
there are more things to say.argue between this two things never ending.
truth is for unity not only t3d is in this situation.but many other engine also.
the downside is gg hs ignored these recent changes for a long time.
which cause them to completely lose their old place.
but now they are trying to get back in track.so let's see what they are planning to do.give them chance.
t3d is an excellent engine.and Unity is an integrated authoring tool for creating 3D video games.not an engine.
last line was from one of unity core engine developer.
08/19/2012 (7:40 pm)
" As soon as someone releases a successful title or two and makes some noise that will change. I know I am going to."there are many(60-70) t3d game published by indie.do not know how much successful those are.but most of their developer are hobbyist.not professional.and i think many member of these community are not directly related to game development.although t3d is an excellent engine but u need a good art team.which means also cost to support it.
which is not possible for an individual person.look at winterleaf.even they are hiering their artist with a hope of future payment.when they cannot bear the cost then do not think that you will be able to bear that amount of money to produce successful title.
now look into unity3d.
"The Unity AssetStore may be a bit easier to get things into, but look at the amount of garbage (cheap and overpriced) that clutters up the store."
yes.but the good part is that most of those are cheap.
bad thing is they are garbage.but when u do not have money than be Intellectual.
throw out one's bad parts and combine other's good parts.u will get what u want(not 100%).and at a cheap price.
do we have that option here?????
no.
u have to use gg's store things(many of them high price and u only need some part of it.not full one) or have to hire someone to support your work(artist or coder).also there are problems
as there is not a big fan group of t3d,so u have to rely on community members if they are ready to do your freelance work.and as there is no big competetion so cost will be high.
now unity part,
in almost all freelancing site u will get people who knows unity.and for competetion they will charge u always small.
there are more things to say.argue between this two things never ending.
truth is for unity not only t3d is in this situation.but many other engine also.
the downside is gg hs ignored these recent changes for a long time.
which cause them to completely lose their old place.
but now they are trying to get back in track.so let's see what they are planning to do.give them chance.
t3d is an excellent engine.and Unity is an integrated authoring tool for creating 3D video games.not an engine.
last line was from one of unity core engine developer.
#16
If it's an awkward thing about US taxation being deducted at source I think you need to be registered with the IRS as a "non-resident alien". I'm under the impression you can do this via the US Embassy rather than the IRS directly - who are a nightmare, their forms make the pirates and blackguards of HM Revenue and Customs look reasonable. My mother had to sort this out with Amazon payments income from her writing.
Alas the US banking system doesn't appear to have moved on since the period when William H Bonnie was still holding them up. :P
08/20/2012 (6:27 am)
@S2PIf it's an awkward thing about US taxation being deducted at source I think you need to be registered with the IRS as a "non-resident alien". I'm under the impression you can do this via the US Embassy rather than the IRS directly - who are a nightmare, their forms make the pirates and blackguards of HM Revenue and Customs look reasonable. My mother had to sort this out with Amazon payments income from her writing.
Alas the US banking system doesn't appear to have moved on since the period when William H Bonnie was still holding them up. :P
#17
08/20/2012 (7:03 am)
@Steve - Thanks for the info. I'll look into it some more soon... 
#18
08/20/2012 (8:47 am)
If we had offices in different European nations, it would be much easier to do the accounting since we could filter it through there, though international trade between countries is problematic regardless of the country. We could keep an additional 30% and give it to the IRS, which non-US citizens without a business in their country could then request at the end of the year during tax time. But taking a royalty plus holdings for taxes is problematic since the content creator never knows what percentage will be returned, etc. If you are a registered company in your country, you can call the US government and get an EIN over he phone that we can use. If you do not register a company, you have to go through the lengthy ITIN process which can take more than 6 months (or around 3 if the IRS is quick).
#19
I basically started selling my stuff in the store here because I want to see T3D succeed. One of the biggest gripes I hear about Torque is that it is an 'ugly engine', here is a direct quote from one of my YouTube Posts concerning the Conifer Forest Pack;
"t3d is so ulgy but you did a dece job with it, tho i suggest try to remove more the black it creates way too harsh of a contrast."
I will withhold the username who made this comment but, this is a great example of a 'non-developer' perception of Torque. What is funny about this post is that demo was done on a fresh stock install of T3D. No fancy plug-ins, no uber-cool full screen shaders. Nothing but stock Torque. This leads me to believe that many non-torque users don't want to put the time into making something 'look' good. They want just two things;
1. Make a game button
2. Make the game pretty button
As developers we know that there is no such thing. Unity tries to be the 'one button' answer. That's fine but that is not T3D's thing. T3D gives us the source code so that we can decide how the engine will be used. We are not 100% dependent on drag and drop/plug and play content.
Now a word about the non-art side of t3D. The scripters and coders on this site are amazing! I have seen some really cool stuff develop over time, AI for example. Back in 2002/2003 AI was a mystery that most of us could not figure out. So we had Kork running around a big circular set path through 'orc town', if you were lucky you could figure out how to shoot him. Now, we have everything from the Universal Ai starter kit to the recast resources that anyone can use. Heck with just the Universal Ai Starter kit, the Zombie art pack and some script tweeking, you can have an actual game that feels a zombie level in CoD Black Ops. All this can be accomplished over a weekend. That is true progress.
As for getting T3D back 'out there', well, we as a community should start 'pushing it'. Make the YouTube videos, get out on all the social networks and tell everyone what T3D can do now. We as a community need to tell people about the CE version. Tell people that the .NET version is around the corner and wow, it looks really great. Show off what you have done with the engines. Tag your videos and stuff with the Torque logos.
As a developer for the store I know one thing. I have to advertise my products because until people try them, I am the only one that knows if they are any good. If we believe in the Torque line of products, then we need to work as a community with Garage Games and advertise what these engines are capable of. At the same time, we need to push the development of content, make it truly usable and make it decent quality. If we do that, then we can put T3D back on the map, but it will take some work by us, the community.
Just my two cents.
Ron
08/20/2012 (8:51 am)
Interesting discussion going on here. From someone that tries to produce content for T3D, I can assure you the team at Garage Games is pretty good about working with and helping the contributors. As for the Tax Laws...don't get me started. I basically started selling my stuff in the store here because I want to see T3D succeed. One of the biggest gripes I hear about Torque is that it is an 'ugly engine', here is a direct quote from one of my YouTube Posts concerning the Conifer Forest Pack;
"t3d is so ulgy but you did a dece job with it, tho i suggest try to remove more the black it creates way too harsh of a contrast."
I will withhold the username who made this comment but, this is a great example of a 'non-developer' perception of Torque. What is funny about this post is that demo was done on a fresh stock install of T3D. No fancy plug-ins, no uber-cool full screen shaders. Nothing but stock Torque. This leads me to believe that many non-torque users don't want to put the time into making something 'look' good. They want just two things;
1. Make a game button
2. Make the game pretty button
As developers we know that there is no such thing. Unity tries to be the 'one button' answer. That's fine but that is not T3D's thing. T3D gives us the source code so that we can decide how the engine will be used. We are not 100% dependent on drag and drop/plug and play content.
Now a word about the non-art side of t3D. The scripters and coders on this site are amazing! I have seen some really cool stuff develop over time, AI for example. Back in 2002/2003 AI was a mystery that most of us could not figure out. So we had Kork running around a big circular set path through 'orc town', if you were lucky you could figure out how to shoot him. Now, we have everything from the Universal Ai starter kit to the recast resources that anyone can use. Heck with just the Universal Ai Starter kit, the Zombie art pack and some script tweeking, you can have an actual game that feels a zombie level in CoD Black Ops. All this can be accomplished over a weekend. That is true progress.
As for getting T3D back 'out there', well, we as a community should start 'pushing it'. Make the YouTube videos, get out on all the social networks and tell everyone what T3D can do now. We as a community need to tell people about the CE version. Tell people that the .NET version is around the corner and wow, it looks really great. Show off what you have done with the engines. Tag your videos and stuff with the Torque logos.
As a developer for the store I know one thing. I have to advertise my products because until people try them, I am the only one that knows if they are any good. If we believe in the Torque line of products, then we need to work as a community with Garage Games and advertise what these engines are capable of. At the same time, we need to push the development of content, make it truly usable and make it decent quality. If we do that, then we can put T3D back on the map, but it will take some work by us, the community.
Just my two cents.
Ron
#20
Your site linked to the content creators shop on his own domain which sold the product under his own country's taxes and sent the money back to you. Would it then simplify the process?
Thinking of that you might only need 1 company (GG) that has the international license stuff in place?
Note that I don't know ANYTHING about these things so maybe I am just coming up with an even more troublesome way. Just wanted to throw it out here.
I would love to release my products through GG's store, but it sure is some road to get there.
08/20/2012 (9:01 am)
@David, just a thought. If it were the other way around:Your site linked to the content creators shop on his own domain which sold the product under his own country's taxes and sent the money back to you. Would it then simplify the process?
Thinking of that you might only need 1 company (GG) that has the international license stuff in place?
Note that I don't know ANYTHING about these things so maybe I am just coming up with an even more troublesome way. Just wanted to throw it out here.
I would love to release my products through GG's store, but it sure is some road to get there.
Associate Jaimi McEntire
King of Flapjacks