Possible resource or content pack: Terrains
by Dan Webb · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 06/22/2012 (6:21 pm) · 14 replies
NOTICE: Ok it really doesn't look like this is wanted by anyone so I'm dropping the idea for now. I may still publish a Landscape Design Theory blog or resource, just as a reference for landscape/environment artists, but the actual creation and integration tutorial can sit on the backburner.
If anyone needs a detailed how-to for getting nice terrains into Torque3D just ask me.
I've seen a number of posts here asking this or that about terrain generation tools and methods. Quite often people are unhappy with the results they're getting and in this situation it's easy to feel bogged down. So it occurred to me that there aren't actually any packs containing solely terrains, and got to thinking that this should be rectified.
What I'd like to know is this: would a resource/tutorial be preferred or are there actually some people here who'd fork out a small amount of cash for a supported pack? I was thinking something along the lines of, say, eight terrains (various sized versions of various terrains) with included textures. Keep in mind these would be strictly terrain files. No vegetation or rocks or anything. The way I see it, if someone grabbed something like this, they'd do so merely so they could start placing objects etc in the world without having to learn that single stage of the process.
Just something that's been on my mind of late.
If anyone needs a detailed how-to for getting nice terrains into Torque3D just ask me.
I've seen a number of posts here asking this or that about terrain generation tools and methods. Quite often people are unhappy with the results they're getting and in this situation it's easy to feel bogged down. So it occurred to me that there aren't actually any packs containing solely terrains, and got to thinking that this should be rectified.
What I'd like to know is this: would a resource/tutorial be preferred or are there actually some people here who'd fork out a small amount of cash for a supported pack? I was thinking something along the lines of, say, eight terrains (various sized versions of various terrains) with included textures. Keep in mind these would be strictly terrain files. No vegetation or rocks or anything. The way I see it, if someone grabbed something like this, they'd do so merely so they could start placing objects etc in the world without having to learn that single stage of the process.
Just something that's been on my mind of late.
About the author
I do terrains. Lots of other stuff too, but mostly terrains. I die in games more often than not because I'm admiring the view.
#2
I guess I could do a resource that includes a couple of maps. That would at least help with understanding the pipeline a bit more fully. I should also have thought of something else that only now occurred to me. There are already excellent examples of terrains in Deathball Desert and Mars thanks to GG. Anyone can just grab those and have a peek at the pipeline. That's how I learned about using decals to cover stretched terrain textures, after all.
I'm inclined to agree that a tutorial/resource may be the most effective application here.
Thanks for pitching in Lukas.
06/23/2012 (2:45 am)
I checked the license and it's all good for created content. The EULA deals solely with the program (World Machine 2). Good thinking though, so thanks for that Lukas. I need to consider legalities more often and more immediately.I guess I could do a resource that includes a couple of maps. That would at least help with understanding the pipeline a bit more fully. I should also have thought of something else that only now occurred to me. There are already excellent examples of terrains in Deathball Desert and Mars thanks to GG. Anyone can just grab those and have a peek at the pipeline. That's how I learned about using decals to cover stretched terrain textures, after all.
I'm inclined to agree that a tutorial/resource may be the most effective application here.
Thanks for pitching in Lukas.
#3
I have just had a peek at World Machine, firstly can I ask is this better than L3DT Pro.
Also how easy is it to export a map from WM to T3D please?
Regards
Pete
06/23/2012 (6:58 am)
Hi Dan.I have just had a peek at World Machine, firstly can I ask is this better than L3DT Pro.
Also how easy is it to export a map from WM to T3D please?
Regards
Pete
#4
As to your question of which is better, I'd have to say neither. They are totally different programs. I personally prefer the tools (devices) inside WM to the very basic Perlin Noise generator and basic modifiers of L3DT for heightmap generation. But I prefer L3DT's texturing solution and export process. Linking these two programs together is where I find I get the most satisfying results, however. I'll cover it all in-depth when I do the tutorial. No time estimate on that yet I'm afraid. It'll be fairly soon though.
Dan
06/23/2012 (7:36 am)
Hi Pete. The process of exporting/importing from WM to T3D is as simple as saving your greyscale output image (the heightmap) to your project's ./game/art/terrains/ folder. Then when your inside T3D's editor just use File>Import Terrain Heightmap and navigate to the output .png you just saved. That's it.As to your question of which is better, I'd have to say neither. They are totally different programs. I personally prefer the tools (devices) inside WM to the very basic Perlin Noise generator and basic modifiers of L3DT for heightmap generation. But I prefer L3DT's texturing solution and export process. Linking these two programs together is where I find I get the most satisfying results, however. I'll cover it all in-depth when I do the tutorial. No time estimate on that yet I'm afraid. It'll be fairly soon though.
Dan
#5
I'm really looking forward to the tutorials, I have just had a look-play with Wm demo but as its new to me I need to study more.
Again thanks and best regards
Pete
06/23/2012 (7:41 am)
Many thanks Dan,I'm really looking forward to the tutorials, I have just had a look-play with Wm demo but as its new to me I need to study more.
Again thanks and best regards
Pete
#6
Next, open T3D and go into the editor. Then choose File > Import Terrain Heightmap and navigate to output.png (I put mine in /game/art/terrains). And presto. Your new terrain will appear covered in that lovely orange warning mat.
If you want to utilize WM's diffuse map (it's probably the mountains one) all you do is switch to 2d view (the square brownish icon next to the 3d view) then on the left under the preview window you set to show height only. All you need do now is File > Save Viewport As Image. Save it where output.png is and then use something like Photoshop or Gimp to flip the diffuse map vertically. You'll see why soon. Now, go into the terrain painter to set up your materials. Create a new one called wmOutputTest and do the following:
1. Open a diffuse image (your recently flipped image) and set its size to 512 - this size is actually measured in pixels instead of world units. Your terrain should be 512x512 as you're using WM basic.
2. Open a suitable rock detail texture and set it to whatever size you want.
3. Open the normal map if you want. You don't need to for the purposes of this explanation though.
4. Okay that and watch the magic unfold.
Once you do this you should have a much clearer understanding of all the processes involved. Hope that helps you a bit.
Edit: Woopsies. I forgot a crucial piece of information that would have sent you crazy as it did me. Because it makes absolutely no sense at all. Before you do anything in WM you have to set it to not put an extra pixel on the edges of the heightmap. terragen uses the 513px thing. Nothing else does as far as I know. So to fix this annoying thing do the following.
Go to the top of WM's interface and choose World Commands > Project World Parameters and on the window that pops up deselect that stupid +1 pixel to change the map size to 512px.
Now go ahead and do all the things I just laid out. If you encounter any problems just jot them here and I'll help you adress them. The only issue I can foresee is that I've made a mistake somewhere here. I don't think so though. Not this time at least. :)
06/23/2012 (8:27 am)
Pete, when you open WM and are faced with the default devices (advanced perlin generator, terraces and output), just go ahead and click the green BUILD button and wait for your terrain to finish building. Then look at the 3d view to make sure everything worked. Now switch back to Layout View and double click the output device. You'll see two colums of formats available for output. Select .png on the right column and then choose where to write the file to. You can leave its name as output.png for now.Next, open T3D and go into the editor. Then choose File > Import Terrain Heightmap and navigate to output.png (I put mine in /game/art/terrains). And presto. Your new terrain will appear covered in that lovely orange warning mat.
If you want to utilize WM's diffuse map (it's probably the mountains one) all you do is switch to 2d view (the square brownish icon next to the 3d view) then on the left under the preview window you set to show height only. All you need do now is File > Save Viewport As Image. Save it where output.png is and then use something like Photoshop or Gimp to flip the diffuse map vertically. You'll see why soon. Now, go into the terrain painter to set up your materials. Create a new one called wmOutputTest and do the following:
1. Open a diffuse image (your recently flipped image) and set its size to 512 - this size is actually measured in pixels instead of world units. Your terrain should be 512x512 as you're using WM basic.
2. Open a suitable rock detail texture and set it to whatever size you want.
3. Open the normal map if you want. You don't need to for the purposes of this explanation though.
4. Okay that and watch the magic unfold.
Once you do this you should have a much clearer understanding of all the processes involved. Hope that helps you a bit.
Edit: Woopsies. I forgot a crucial piece of information that would have sent you crazy as it did me. Because it makes absolutely no sense at all. Before you do anything in WM you have to set it to not put an extra pixel on the edges of the heightmap. terragen uses the 513px thing. Nothing else does as far as I know. So to fix this annoying thing do the following.
Go to the top of WM's interface and choose World Commands > Project World Parameters and on the window that pops up deselect that stupid +1 pixel to change the map size to 512px.
Now go ahead and do all the things I just laid out. If you encounter any problems just jot them here and I'll help you adress them. The only issue I can foresee is that I've made a mistake somewhere here. I don't think so though. Not this time at least. :)
#7
I have just followed all of your information and I must say it works a charm. I wasn't sure how adding one rock map would do much but I can see the magic lol..
Very very helpful and much appreciated.
I am going to try more options but any advice again is always welcome.
Thanks again Dan
06/23/2012 (10:10 am)
Hey Dan.I have just followed all of your information and I must say it works a charm. I wasn't sure how adding one rock map would do much but I can see the magic lol..
Very very helpful and much appreciated.
I am going to try more options but any advice again is always welcome.
Thanks again Dan
#8
06/23/2012 (7:56 pm)
No problem Pete. Glad to hear it worked for you. By the way, the reason I said to use the rock texture first was because I always build my environments from the rock base up. So sand goes over the rock, not the other way around. It may just be my imagination but I feel this method gets better results.
#9
The thing is, I want to address all aspects of terrain creation, not just the heightmap. I'd like to talk about colour and light. Soil and rock types. Sedimentation, erosion, water flows. Everything. So we'll give it just a couple more days. Thanks for your patience guys.
06/25/2012 (2:57 pm)
I'm going to give this a couple of days to see if anyone else wants this before I start on it. Sorry about that delay but I'd like to see what sort of demand there is for this before I start on it.The thing is, I want to address all aspects of terrain creation, not just the heightmap. I'd like to talk about colour and light. Soil and rock types. Sedimentation, erosion, water flows. Everything. So we'll give it just a couple more days. Thanks for your patience guys.
#10
If anyone needs a detailed how-to for getting nice terrains into Torque3D just ask me.
06/28/2012 (4:55 pm)
Ok it really doesn't look like this is wanted by anyone so I'm dropping the idea for now. I may still publish a Landscape Design Theory blog or resource, just as a reference for landscape/environment artists, but the actual creation and integration tutorial can sit on the backburner. If anyone needs a detailed how-to for getting nice terrains into Torque3D just ask me.
#11
"Landscape Design Theory"-->
i did not found anything like that.so i think that would be first one in this forum.i do not know what you are planning to add into that.
but definitely that will help me to get some artistic knowledge on level designing.
06/28/2012 (6:32 pm)
Quote:not only me.many others(specially beginners) will be helped by that.most of all(may be there is only one) old terrain tutorials are on old engines.nothing for t3d.most of them have used L3DT.and l3dt do not give much manual control on terrain.so a terrain generation tutorial would be very helpful.for people(me also) who mainly focus on programming.
If anyone needs a detailed how-to for getting nice terrains into Torque3D just ask me.
"Landscape Design Theory"-->
i did not found anything like that.so i think that would be first one in this forum.i do not know what you are planning to add into that.
but definitely that will help me to get some artistic knowledge on level designing.
#12
06/28/2012 (7:31 pm)
I've been using l3dt for TGEA, but now that I'm starting to use T3D, I would definitely be interested in a resource for what you are doing. 
#13
08/29/2012 (2:02 am)
Even though it seems you dropped the idea, I can only say that ECK - by Andy Wright did create a lot of fuzz, and quite some people where interested in 'anything' regarding tutorial, aid, base art regarding terrains and material.
#14
The thing about Andy's terrains (and many more including my own, at times) is that the detail (close up) textures look great when the distant (diffuse) texture looks less so, and the opposite is true. I'm playing with different methods to circumvent this limitation of only two levels of texture detail on the terrain, but so far my best efforts are hacks.
My current pipeline is now including World Machine's awesome (seriously awesome!) texture tools to make my diffuse map. Looking good so far - screenies will show up eventually.
09/01/2012 (12:08 am)
@Christian - Andy's got some sweet terrains in that pack. I didn't drop this by the way, I did a half-arsed 'guide' of sorts here which you may have seen already. The thing about Andy's terrains (and many more including my own, at times) is that the detail (close up) textures look great when the distant (diffuse) texture looks less so, and the opposite is true. I'm playing with different methods to circumvent this limitation of only two levels of texture detail on the terrain, but so far my best efforts are hacks.
My current pipeline is now including World Machine's awesome (seriously awesome!) texture tools to make my diffuse map. Looking good so far - screenies will show up eventually.
Torque Owner Lukas Joergensen
WinterLeaf Entertainment
Besides I think a how-to is better because people would prefer having their own terrain instead of a terrain that can be found in several other games, as terrains is one of the objects that would stand out and be recognized in a lot of games.
Now I do think a tutorial would be nice, although there is probably already plenty of them.
And if you want to cash some money on it you could create a terrain on a per-user basis. He tells you what he wants, maybe gives you a height map with the basic structure, you fix it up, add details makes it look good and sends back the result terrain file. While that will be more expensive for the customer, it would provide him with a more satisfying result.
You could do both tho, as some people might just want to have a terrain set up so they can focus on gameplay features and come back to the world design later, therefore a terrain pack might be just fine.