Software Project - Red flags?
by Sean Brady · in General Discussion · 02/15/2012 (9:42 am) · 7 replies
Hello I am involved in a collaborative software project (open source) and there are several issues arising.
No communication from co-ordinator after several questions over a long period of time.
No communciation even from people I am working with also after several questions.
(Two months of emailing and waiting - absolutely disgraceful!!!)
I have been assigned what I need to do but I cannot move forward at all until partner in tasks completes their task. With no communication and no notification of progress it looks as if things are not moving.
I thought that possibly I might take the bull by the horns and drill out what they're meant to do along with my own. Not that hard, basic player and enemy interactions with shooting and killing AI (using XNA). I don't know if that is crossing a line though.
I heard open source is the closest you can get to real-life development experience without a job. I hope not. Everything moves incredibly slow and you don't get a challenge. The fact there is no challenge its pure soul killer.
Apart from the above issues what other red flags have the gg community experienced when dealing with a software project that is failing or needs a kick in the a** to get it moving again?
Thanks for any contributions in advance.
No communication from co-ordinator after several questions over a long period of time.
No communciation even from people I am working with also after several questions.
(Two months of emailing and waiting - absolutely disgraceful!!!)
I have been assigned what I need to do but I cannot move forward at all until partner in tasks completes their task. With no communication and no notification of progress it looks as if things are not moving.
I thought that possibly I might take the bull by the horns and drill out what they're meant to do along with my own. Not that hard, basic player and enemy interactions with shooting and killing AI (using XNA). I don't know if that is crossing a line though.
I heard open source is the closest you can get to real-life development experience without a job. I hope not. Everything moves incredibly slow and you don't get a challenge. The fact there is no challenge its pure soul killer.
Apart from the above issues what other red flags have the gg community experienced when dealing with a software project that is failing or needs a kick in the a** to get it moving again?
Thanks for any contributions in advance.
About the author
Professional mouth!, getting projects complete is the only problem.
#2
"With it being open source, the commitment level of team members may not always be the strongest, or as strong as you would like. While there are definitely some very strong teams in open source, there are also sometimes some teams that are not very active."
- I will have to put that down to my lack of diversity of software projects/experience. I was expecting a collection of superman type programmers/developers who if you don't keep up with, would remove you from project. Basically where you have to meet the challenge. No different to closed source and freelance so. Each sector has a mixture of both.
"It seems as if you are looking for red flags based upon coordinators and communication rather than the technical side. I will address those red flags and leave the technical side for maybe another post if you are interested, but it may be a long one. Some Red flags that can happen are the lack of communication to the team members and users, the lack of vision from a project standpoint and a constant changing of ideas from a project level. For instance, if they say they are going to make a 3D game as a proof of concept with their tech, but then go around and make a 2D bubble blaster game a few months later without communicating the reasons why, there could be a several problems. They might have underestimated the time it would take, the difficulty of the project or may not have been able to create technology. If nobody is responding to you from the projects team after two months, it may be time to look for a new project. You are trying to help them, but they don't appear to be organized enough to utilize your time properly."
- I am definitely interested in the technical aspects also. That would be a great help, trying to knock the cluelessness of my head... The changing of project objectives and feature creeping has happened before alright but the others have not. Delighted to be made aware of them. I think I needed to realise everyone involved is human not robots, a bit of empathy towards someone elses situation is required. I say I think but its only after clicking now from what you said. Regarding the two months, self-respect comes into it then respect to the others person situation along with whats the best for each party overall. Again all this is only clicking from what you have said. (They might have underestimated the time it would take, the difficulty of the project or may not have been able to create technology.) - I have been here many times, walking away from a project due to feeling inadequate in comparison to other developers. I am sure I am not alone.
"As far as the closest thing you can get to a "real-life development experience without a job", I would say be part of a team that has a vision for a product that it wants to complete (probably in the < 2 year ship range). It does not have to be open source, it could be a closed source game. I am sure you can find some of those projects here or at Help Wanted forum at http://www.gamedev.net/forum/8-help-wanted/"
- Wil do. I thought the open source was looked upon as the most favourable but I think I suppose it's six to one and half dozen to the other. Can't wait to get going again.
Thanks for information, you have cleared up alot for me and I know now how to understand and handle the situation better. Thank you.
02/15/2012 (7:22 pm)
Thanks very much for responding, it's extremely helpful."With it being open source, the commitment level of team members may not always be the strongest, or as strong as you would like. While there are definitely some very strong teams in open source, there are also sometimes some teams that are not very active."
- I will have to put that down to my lack of diversity of software projects/experience. I was expecting a collection of superman type programmers/developers who if you don't keep up with, would remove you from project. Basically where you have to meet the challenge. No different to closed source and freelance so. Each sector has a mixture of both.
"It seems as if you are looking for red flags based upon coordinators and communication rather than the technical side. I will address those red flags and leave the technical side for maybe another post if you are interested, but it may be a long one. Some Red flags that can happen are the lack of communication to the team members and users, the lack of vision from a project standpoint and a constant changing of ideas from a project level. For instance, if they say they are going to make a 3D game as a proof of concept with their tech, but then go around and make a 2D bubble blaster game a few months later without communicating the reasons why, there could be a several problems. They might have underestimated the time it would take, the difficulty of the project or may not have been able to create technology. If nobody is responding to you from the projects team after two months, it may be time to look for a new project. You are trying to help them, but they don't appear to be organized enough to utilize your time properly."
- I am definitely interested in the technical aspects also. That would be a great help, trying to knock the cluelessness of my head... The changing of project objectives and feature creeping has happened before alright but the others have not. Delighted to be made aware of them. I think I needed to realise everyone involved is human not robots, a bit of empathy towards someone elses situation is required. I say I think but its only after clicking now from what you said. Regarding the two months, self-respect comes into it then respect to the others person situation along with whats the best for each party overall. Again all this is only clicking from what you have said. (They might have underestimated the time it would take, the difficulty of the project or may not have been able to create technology.) - I have been here many times, walking away from a project due to feeling inadequate in comparison to other developers. I am sure I am not alone.
"As far as the closest thing you can get to a "real-life development experience without a job", I would say be part of a team that has a vision for a product that it wants to complete (probably in the < 2 year ship range). It does not have to be open source, it could be a closed source game. I am sure you can find some of those projects here or at Help Wanted forum at http://www.gamedev.net/forum/8-help-wanted/"
- Wil do. I thought the open source was looked upon as the most favourable but I think I suppose it's six to one and half dozen to the other. Can't wait to get going again.
Thanks for information, you have cleared up alot for me and I know now how to understand and handle the situation better. Thank you.
#3
Some red flags to look out for are the following
1) Lack of technical direction. This could be by having a design philosophy in one area of the code, but doing the complete opposite to look out for.
2) Lack of unit tests. The lack of running unit tests on a code base is a large hindrance in my opinion. Without them you could end up changing things that without knowingly breaking something else. It is rare that one developer will know every single little detail of the engine so when another developer picks up the code base, they could break something and accidentally break another developers code. I would not start a new project without developing unit tests for it (unless it was an incredibly short project, but even then I might if there is some trickery in the code).
3) Out of date software design. This can vary on what you consider "out of date", but the abuse of singletons is typically high up on the scale.
4) Lack of coding standards. This is not so much technical, but having been in over half a dozen seven+ year old code basis, looking absurd code that looks to be touched by hundreds of different programmers is not pretty (especially when one guy changes his code style all over the place).
5) Lack of technical longevity. If you plan on making a game that you know is going to be cross platform, but you code it be single platform, then you are going to be in for a world of hurt.
6) Code hacks. I don't think a description is needed for this ...
02/17/2012 (2:03 pm)
"I am definitely interested in the technical aspects also. That would be a great help, trying to knock the cluelessness of my head."Some red flags to look out for are the following
1) Lack of technical direction. This could be by having a design philosophy in one area of the code, but doing the complete opposite to look out for.
2) Lack of unit tests. The lack of running unit tests on a code base is a large hindrance in my opinion. Without them you could end up changing things that without knowingly breaking something else. It is rare that one developer will know every single little detail of the engine so when another developer picks up the code base, they could break something and accidentally break another developers code. I would not start a new project without developing unit tests for it (unless it was an incredibly short project, but even then I might if there is some trickery in the code).
3) Out of date software design. This can vary on what you consider "out of date", but the abuse of singletons is typically high up on the scale.
4) Lack of coding standards. This is not so much technical, but having been in over half a dozen seven+ year old code basis, looking absurd code that looks to be touched by hundreds of different programmers is not pretty (especially when one guy changes his code style all over the place).
5) Lack of technical longevity. If you plan on making a game that you know is going to be cross platform, but you code it be single platform, then you are going to be in for a world of hurt.
6) Code hacks. I don't think a description is needed for this ...
#4
I have been in some similar situations in the past and I now typically don't get involved in collaboration projects.
The trick to OpenSource working is that there needs to be at least one Driver for the project (kind of like a Project Manager) who knows what needs to be done and has a clear understanding of the project goals and can map them out accordingly.
Recently I have started using JIRA (with Bonfire and Greenhopper), linked to Confluence and linked to Fisheye. This gives me the SCRUM Agile approach to Project Management with the Wiki collaboration using Confluence. And finally with Fisheye I am able to monitor the Source Code repository and make sure the project is progressing.
Bottom line is check some details next time you want to get involved in a project. Make sure the team has the correct tools to collaborate (MSN and E-mail is not the correct tool) and the correct tools to manage the project, and finally make sure there is one person driving the project ... not just handing out tasks and expecting them to happen.
Good luck for the future.
02/17/2012 (11:12 pm)
@Sean: Typically OpenSource does work, but the main ingredient of any OpenSource project is communication. Tools like JIRA and Confluence and can really make the difference in an instance like this.I have been in some similar situations in the past and I now typically don't get involved in collaboration projects.
The trick to OpenSource working is that there needs to be at least one Driver for the project (kind of like a Project Manager) who knows what needs to be done and has a clear understanding of the project goals and can map them out accordingly.
Recently I have started using JIRA (with Bonfire and Greenhopper), linked to Confluence and linked to Fisheye. This gives me the SCRUM Agile approach to Project Management with the Wiki collaboration using Confluence. And finally with Fisheye I am able to monitor the Source Code repository and make sure the project is progressing.
Bottom line is check some details next time you want to get involved in a project. Make sure the team has the correct tools to collaborate (MSN and E-mail is not the correct tool) and the correct tools to manage the project, and finally make sure there is one person driving the project ... not just handing out tasks and expecting them to happen.
Good luck for the future.
#5
1 ( have seen some of this )
2 ( I was unaware of this until now )
3 ( Unaware of this, need to brush up. - Is this area not just subjective? or in other words based on preference? )
4 ( completely understand )
"5) Lack of technical longevity. If you plan on making a game that you know is going to be cross platform, but you code it be cross platform, then you are going to be in for a world of hurt."
Do you mean "but you code it to be single platform, then you are going to be in for a world of hurt".
6 ( completely understand, seeds of total nightmare - although I like hacking away hahaha.... )
@Quinton Delpeche
Thank you for providing information regarding tools and situation setup. I was completely unknowledgeable of them.
@Joseph and Quinton
Thanks to the both of you. You have no idea how much this information has helped. If I could do anything to pay you back just say. Thanks again, thanks...
02/18/2012 (11:45 am)
@Joseph Thomas1 ( have seen some of this )
2 ( I was unaware of this until now )
3 ( Unaware of this, need to brush up. - Is this area not just subjective? or in other words based on preference? )
4 ( completely understand )
"5) Lack of technical longevity. If you plan on making a game that you know is going to be cross platform, but you code it be cross platform, then you are going to be in for a world of hurt."
Do you mean "but you code it to be single platform, then you are going to be in for a world of hurt".
6 ( completely understand, seeds of total nightmare - although I like hacking away hahaha.... )
@Quinton Delpeche
Thank you for providing information regarding tools and situation setup. I was completely unknowledgeable of them.
@Joseph and Quinton
Thanks to the both of you. You have no idea how much this information has helped. If I could do anything to pay you back just say. Thanks again, thanks...
#6
As for paying us back ... well for me there is no need. We are a community and we are here to help each other.
I have learnt tons while being part of Garage Games since June 2007 and that is payment enough for me.
Good luck.
02/19/2012 (12:17 am)
@Sean: There are numerous other tools out there ... some free, some not. Find the tools that meet your requirements and needs and then go with that. I only mentioned those tools because I am familiar with them (we use them at work) and so I purchased myself a license for my projects ... even though I am only one member on the team ... very sad.As for paying us back ... well for me there is no need. We are a community and we are here to help each other.
I have learnt tons while being part of Garage Games since June 2007 and that is payment enough for me.
Good luck.
#7
Regarding tools, will do.
"As for paying us back ... well for me there is no need. We are a community and we are here to help each other. I have learnt tons while being part of Garage Games since June 2007 and that is payment enough for me." - No bother. If I could do something for you I would but I need to improve a bit more. Joined in 2006 myself, learnt lots myself also and it hasn't stopped thankfully.
Take care.
02/19/2012 (8:01 pm)
@QuintonRegarding tools, will do.
"As for paying us back ... well for me there is no need. We are a community and we are here to help each other. I have learnt tons while being part of Garage Games since June 2007 and that is payment enough for me." - No bother. If I could do something for you I would but I need to improve a bit more. Joined in 2006 myself, learnt lots myself also and it hasn't stopped thankfully.
Take care.
Associate Joseph Thomas
It seems as if you are looking for red flags based upon coordinators and communication rather than the technical side. I will address those red flags and leave the technical side for maybe another post if you are interested, but it may be a long one. Some Red flags that can happen are the lack of communication to the team members and users, the lack of vision from a project standpoint and a constant changing of ideas from a project level. For instance, if they say they are going to make a 3D game as a proof of concept with their tech, but then go around and make a 2D bubble blaster game a few months later without communicating the reasons why, there could be a several problems. They might have underestimated the time it would take, the difficulty of the project or may not have been able to create technology. If nobody is responding to you from the projects team after two months, it may be time to look for a new project. You are trying to help them, but they don't appear to be organized enough to utilize your time properly.
As far as the closest thing you can get to a "real-life development experience without a job", I would say be part of a team that has a vision for a product that it wants to complete (probably in the < 2 year ship range). It does not have to be open source, it could be a closed source game. I am sure you can find some of those projects here or at Help Wanted forum at http://www.gamedev.net/forum/8-help-wanted/ .