How would have the "Tribes" serie worked without skiing?
by Kyrah Abattoir · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 12/20/2011 (6:09 pm) · 7 replies
I recall seeing the first game, "Starsiege Triges" on my cousin's computer sometime in 1999, at the time i was amazed by this game because it had so much going for it compared to the competition:
-3D movements with jetpacks.
-Deployable objects (turrets, supply stations, cameras).
-Vehicles.
-64 players games.
-Character customization (you could pick guy/girl and a small selection of voices which is more than most FPS games).
-Lots of gamemodes (ctf, capture and hold, etc...).
Now, for what I understood, skiing was not really planned by the developpers, they more or less figured it might appear in some mild forms, but they didn't expect it becoming the main feature of the game.
In fact, it only became widespread once clientside skiing scripts where developped by players and made skiing available to all.
Now personally i had my share of skiing in tribes 2, Vengeance and more recently "Tribes: Ascend" but every sequel reduced the toolset the game offered and kept focusing on this "stupid" skiing mechanic.
To me, skiing broke many features of the game, it made most sentries useless and focused the game around lightning fast flag cappers vs the defence team.
So what do you guys think, would the tribes serie have been "better" games without the focus on skiing? I know FPS players like hardcore " skill based" gameplay, but tribes was also a lot about strategy, we lost this to movement skill with skiing.
-3D movements with jetpacks.
-Deployable objects (turrets, supply stations, cameras).
-Vehicles.
-64 players games.
-Character customization (you could pick guy/girl and a small selection of voices which is more than most FPS games).
-Lots of gamemodes (ctf, capture and hold, etc...).
Now, for what I understood, skiing was not really planned by the developpers, they more or less figured it might appear in some mild forms, but they didn't expect it becoming the main feature of the game.
In fact, it only became widespread once clientside skiing scripts where developped by players and made skiing available to all.
Now personally i had my share of skiing in tribes 2, Vengeance and more recently "Tribes: Ascend" but every sequel reduced the toolset the game offered and kept focusing on this "stupid" skiing mechanic.
To me, skiing broke many features of the game, it made most sentries useless and focused the game around lightning fast flag cappers vs the defence team.
So what do you guys think, would the tribes serie have been "better" games without the focus on skiing? I know FPS players like hardcore " skill based" gameplay, but tribes was also a lot about strategy, we lost this to movement skill with skiing.
About the author
3D artist, programmer, game designer, jack of all trades, master of none.
#2
But if you look at the differences between "Starsiege: Tribes" and Tribes2 you can see that S:T's main reason for jetpacks was to access the various bases and navigate the landscape easier. A lot of the bases where indeed very vertical.
But Tribes featured extensive deployable structures and a true commander role (through a dedicated command console inside the base)
I get the feeling that the skiing mechanic changed a game that was designed to be much more than just fast paced aerial combat.
The result is that motion sensors and portable radars are underpowered, sentry guns lock too slowly, and skiing is faster than driving.
And if you adjust sentries lock on speed to catch flag cappers, they become absolutely letal inside cramped spaces.
01/03/2012 (7:12 am)
True , all the sequels featured the skiing as being the main draw to the tribes franchise.But if you look at the differences between "Starsiege: Tribes" and Tribes2 you can see that S:T's main reason for jetpacks was to access the various bases and navigate the landscape easier. A lot of the bases where indeed very vertical.
But Tribes featured extensive deployable structures and a true commander role (through a dedicated command console inside the base)
I get the feeling that the skiing mechanic changed a game that was designed to be much more than just fast paced aerial combat.
The result is that motion sensors and portable radars are underpowered, sentry guns lock too slowly, and skiing is faster than driving.
And if you adjust sentries lock on speed to catch flag cappers, they become absolutely letal inside cramped spaces.
#3
Honestly, Tribes 2 lost me - the AI was too smart for its own good. After playing against 3 of my friends for an hour, the bots decided to give up and become turrets. They stopped moving, attacking, defending or anything and would only shoot at you if you crossed their line of sight.
Additionally, the turrets wouldn't track anything outside of 400m, so you could fly a bomber up and smash the defenses easily unless the other team manned their turrets. We had a 3 man team that would take a bomber and win the game while the other 5 mates kept the opposition busy on the ground. While it was funny, it hardly made for good gameplay.
01/03/2012 (1:44 pm)
You could have the trackers motion-sensitive - slower moving objects lock slower and faster moving objects lock faster. That would balance the automated defenses better for open areas or cramped spaces.Honestly, Tribes 2 lost me - the AI was too smart for its own good. After playing against 3 of my friends for an hour, the bots decided to give up and become turrets. They stopped moving, attacking, defending or anything and would only shoot at you if you crossed their line of sight.
Additionally, the turrets wouldn't track anything outside of 400m, so you could fly a bomber up and smash the defenses easily unless the other team manned their turrets. We had a 3 man team that would take a bomber and win the game while the other 5 mates kept the opposition busy on the ground. While it was funny, it hardly made for good gameplay.
#4
It's quite fun in a noob lan game because the defense really help then.
01/03/2012 (7:49 pm)
One thing vengeance has over the two previous is that it's fairly easy to take on, but so far i only had fun when playing together with noobs.It's quite fun in a noob lan game because the defense really help then.
#5
01/04/2012 (5:19 am)
In my opinion Vengeance wasn't very good for a LAN game, it was designed for 16 player teams or so on. Legions on the other hand, it had even easier to learn jetting / skiing system and it was designed DM in mind, so works well with like 5 people.
#6
01/24/2012 (11:59 pm)
Actually there was a few custom maps that worked great in lan, someone ripped the arena from the story mode and converted it to MP, it works just right with lower playercounts, is easy to learn for newbies and work in CTF & Fuel mode. 
#7
Whereas most games at the time (and still) are focused on Deathmatch or Capture & Hold/siege types. The speed skiing gave cappers allowed them to get in & out of the flag area w/o being a sitting duck. For those game types though Tribes works just fine without skiing (but is more intense with)
You'll notice that maps w/ flags indoors aren't played. Because there is no way to grab the flag an get away. Though, there are ways that the game could have been changed to fix that. (spawn delays, Flags not auto returning).
And while I think skiing made tribes, it also hurt it; in that all maps had to be ski-able. There could have been other mechanics to create speed.
03/24/2012 (5:43 pm)
Without Skiing, Tribes would have been just another Quake/Unreal title and fell of the map. That being said; What skiing brought to the game was a 'speed' factor that allowed the CTF game to thrive. Whereas most games at the time (and still) are focused on Deathmatch or Capture & Hold/siege types. The speed skiing gave cappers allowed them to get in & out of the flag area w/o being a sitting duck. For those game types though Tribes works just fine without skiing (but is more intense with)
You'll notice that maps w/ flags indoors aren't played. Because there is no way to grab the flag an get away. Though, there are ways that the game could have been changed to fix that. (spawn delays, Flags not auto returning).
And while I think skiing made tribes, it also hurt it; in that all maps had to be ski-able. There could have been other mechanics to create speed.
Torque 3D Owner Tuomas Kaukoranta
Tribes 1 might've worked a bit 'better' without excessive skiing because it hadn't been designed for it, but Tribes 2 had the skiing system built-in, they took it in account when they designed the game. They still cared about the non-skiing elements too, like base defense, vehicles, turrets etc. They did work, Tribes 2 still had a lot of emphasis on teamwork.
Tribes: Vengeance dropped the ball in my opinion, it made the skiing system easier to use, easier to gain great velocities. They also simplified base mechanics and vehicles and on the top of that, they added a grappling hook to give even more power to the skillful single players instead of good teamwork.
Legions on the other hand took it entirely to the direction that T:V showed, it had no vehicles, no bases with generators, no turrets, only players themselves. It was all about player skill, and it worked that way, it was designed for it.
I haven't played T:A yet (have a beta key, but the software that downloads the game and manages patches won't work on my comp for some odd reason), but I hope it's not going to do what T:V (TRON on the IRC channel has kinda convinced me it's good), which means it doesn't put too much focus on lone players, instead putting it on good teamwork.
Yes, my reply doesn't seem like related much to the thread, but jetpack and movement efficiency are really strong factors determining the power of skill of single players.