Star Trek: NCC1701 - Community Project now online! Who wants in?
by Paul Weston · in Torque 3D Professional · 10/13/2011 (4:41 pm) · 15 replies
*****
UPDATE OCTOBER 27th (thread title changed)
THE PROJECT IS NOW AVAILABLE IN OUR ONLINE REPOSITORY, FOR ANYONE WHO WANTS TO TRY IT AND/OR HELP COMPLETE THE WORK... SCROLL DOWN THE PAGE TO LEARN MORE!
ORIGINAL THREAD START POST WAS LEFT BELOW FOR REFERENCE...
*****
Hi all,
As many of you are aware, Brian Murray and I have been building the original series Starship Enterprise in T3D for some time now (about 3 years, wow)...
Our attempts to secure a license from CBS/Paramount were unsuccessful, so we will never be able to sell our work as a commercial game. However, we decided to complete the project nonetheless and release it to the public for free so everyone can enjoy it. This is an established precedent, there are many fan-created Star Trek games out there and as long as no revenue is made off the name this is OK...
We already have a demo available on our website - gambitrealm.com - which features the lower hull of the ship and comprises various missions (hunting Klingons, practicing shuttle flight, etc). Response has been very positive and it's a fun little game to play (multiplayer shuttle battles are a blast).
Thing is, in our quest to complete the rest of the ship we are finding it is taking so long to put all the furnishings and lights in, and to tweak it until it looks just right. We love the work, don't get me wrong, but it got me thinking about how maybe this would be a project that others may want to share in.
My question is this - what options do we have in terms of distribution of a Torque project? If we are to build this together (assuming there is interest from the community here), we need to be able to share the mission files, the script code as well as have access to the art assets. I know Brian wants his art protected if possible, so we would perhaps distribute with all the art in a PAK file, and a list of the available assets and their paths for those who would be helping in the placement of objects... For scripts, I would probably have some of the more edited ones with my proprietary modifications DSO'd for protection, but the stock scripts editable in .cs format for any required tweaks and changes.
Have not seen anything like this on here, can anyone give advice as to a) whether this is in fact legal to share a Torque project (as long as we are all T3D owners) b) if yes, how do we go about it, and c) who all here wants to be a part of this?
Let me know your thoughts please. And to the T3D crew, please let me know if I am out of line in suggesting this. I just thought it might be a really fun and interactive way to get this project out the door and into the hands of the masses who would undoubtedly enjoy it.
The entire ship is basically done, we can now walk all the decks and the performance kinks are mostly ironed out. But we still need lots of objects placed, as well as various new assets created to fill out the ship. Artists and programmers could help with this, as well as anyone who perhaps has just bought T3D and wants some experience placing objects into a mission.
How is the Trekkie base here? Am I off-base in thinking this might be of interest to some?
Please reply here if so...
Live long and prosper!
UPDATE OCTOBER 27th (thread title changed)
THE PROJECT IS NOW AVAILABLE IN OUR ONLINE REPOSITORY, FOR ANYONE WHO WANTS TO TRY IT AND/OR HELP COMPLETE THE WORK... SCROLL DOWN THE PAGE TO LEARN MORE!
ORIGINAL THREAD START POST WAS LEFT BELOW FOR REFERENCE...
*****
Hi all,
As many of you are aware, Brian Murray and I have been building the original series Starship Enterprise in T3D for some time now (about 3 years, wow)...
Our attempts to secure a license from CBS/Paramount were unsuccessful, so we will never be able to sell our work as a commercial game. However, we decided to complete the project nonetheless and release it to the public for free so everyone can enjoy it. This is an established precedent, there are many fan-created Star Trek games out there and as long as no revenue is made off the name this is OK...
We already have a demo available on our website - gambitrealm.com - which features the lower hull of the ship and comprises various missions (hunting Klingons, practicing shuttle flight, etc). Response has been very positive and it's a fun little game to play (multiplayer shuttle battles are a blast).
Thing is, in our quest to complete the rest of the ship we are finding it is taking so long to put all the furnishings and lights in, and to tweak it until it looks just right. We love the work, don't get me wrong, but it got me thinking about how maybe this would be a project that others may want to share in.
My question is this - what options do we have in terms of distribution of a Torque project? If we are to build this together (assuming there is interest from the community here), we need to be able to share the mission files, the script code as well as have access to the art assets. I know Brian wants his art protected if possible, so we would perhaps distribute with all the art in a PAK file, and a list of the available assets and their paths for those who would be helping in the placement of objects... For scripts, I would probably have some of the more edited ones with my proprietary modifications DSO'd for protection, but the stock scripts editable in .cs format for any required tweaks and changes.
Have not seen anything like this on here, can anyone give advice as to a) whether this is in fact legal to share a Torque project (as long as we are all T3D owners) b) if yes, how do we go about it, and c) who all here wants to be a part of this?
Let me know your thoughts please. And to the T3D crew, please let me know if I am out of line in suggesting this. I just thought it might be a really fun and interactive way to get this project out the door and into the hands of the masses who would undoubtedly enjoy it.
The entire ship is basically done, we can now walk all the decks and the performance kinks are mostly ironed out. But we still need lots of objects placed, as well as various new assets created to fill out the ship. Artists and programmers could help with this, as well as anyone who perhaps has just bought T3D and wants some experience placing objects into a mission.
How is the Trekkie base here? Am I off-base in thinking this might be of interest to some?
Please reply here if so...
Live long and prosper!
About the author
Programming team lead, Gambit Realm development studio. Based in Ottawa, ON, Canada.
#2
10/16/2011 (11:28 pm)
It's definitely legal (as far as the sharing of a T3D project) as long as you are all T3D owners. Trying to protect your art assets in a PAK file would likely be a waste of time and effort, though. It's a trivial matter to export assets out of the engine once they are loaded, regardless of where they are loaded from, unless you use some proprietary internal data format. You could create a legal agreement with anybody who joins, but the enforceability of such an agreement would be questionable at best, since they're assets based on an IP that you don't own or have permission to use.
#3
Of course, I realize that protecting the assets is a bit moot, seeing as how we don't own rights to what most of them are based on... However, I was referring to any number of art kits / packs we have purchased, some of which we have used in the game, where we are unsure of the legality of making the art available, that's all.
We already did the PAK file thing for our demo distribution, and it works so well I was just thinking out loud about it as an option... But in all likelihood, as you say, if we end up doing this then we would be effectively giving access to everything.
Either way, I'm still interested in gathering troups for this initiative, and looking for GG's blessing or information on how to go about it.
One area that could still use some work, is the characters. We've never been completely happy with what we have - we do like the general appearance, Brian did some fun work on the facial likenesses of the characters, not exact renditions but close enough to get the idea. But the overall quality of the models and their movements is lacking somewhat. Anyone with experience in characters who would like to offer help would be so much appreciated.
Also needed are additional objects for the corridor walls - what they call GNDN's (goes nowhere, does nothing). We have a few made, but if you watch the original show there are so many various versions - usually made up of everyday household items cut up and arranged in weird ways and then painted. Ideally, every corridor would have something on the walls every few feet, with about a dozen or so different designs that we could alternate.
We are also having some issues with materials - many console spam messages about "missing material for...", which indicates that needs to be cleaned up.
Finally, just placing our existing assets (beds, tables, chairs, etc) in the various rooms which are not yet done. Decks 4 and 5 are only partly furnished and need to be completed. Deck 8 needs a nice botanical garden laid out. You get the idea.
Again, anyone interested please post here and if we get a few positives we'll take the next step.
Thanks!
10/17/2011 (6:44 am)
Hey again,Of course, I realize that protecting the assets is a bit moot, seeing as how we don't own rights to what most of them are based on... However, I was referring to any number of art kits / packs we have purchased, some of which we have used in the game, where we are unsure of the legality of making the art available, that's all.
We already did the PAK file thing for our demo distribution, and it works so well I was just thinking out loud about it as an option... But in all likelihood, as you say, if we end up doing this then we would be effectively giving access to everything.
Either way, I'm still interested in gathering troups for this initiative, and looking for GG's blessing or information on how to go about it.
One area that could still use some work, is the characters. We've never been completely happy with what we have - we do like the general appearance, Brian did some fun work on the facial likenesses of the characters, not exact renditions but close enough to get the idea. But the overall quality of the models and their movements is lacking somewhat. Anyone with experience in characters who would like to offer help would be so much appreciated.
Also needed are additional objects for the corridor walls - what they call GNDN's (goes nowhere, does nothing). We have a few made, but if you watch the original show there are so many various versions - usually made up of everyday household items cut up and arranged in weird ways and then painted. Ideally, every corridor would have something on the walls every few feet, with about a dozen or so different designs that we could alternate.
We are also having some issues with materials - many console spam messages about "missing material for...", which indicates that needs to be cleaned up.
Finally, just placing our existing assets (beds, tables, chairs, etc) in the various rooms which are not yet done. Decks 4 and 5 are only partly furnished and need to be completed. Deck 8 needs a nice botanical garden laid out. You get the idea.
Again, anyone interested please post here and if we get a few positives we'll take the next step.
Thanks!
#4
10/17/2011 (9:55 am)
The best way to Share your project with others would be via a subversion repository (or other equivalent) that way any one who is added to the project can download the latest project folder and begin work and when they have finished they can upload to the repository then all you (and any one else) has to do is simply update your working copy rinse and repeate 
#5
You can use many free control vendors that you can set up like TortoiseSVN that I find most useful and share the repository as a WEBDAV password protected web folder mapped to a net folder in windows.
You can pack your assets like in the "PAK file thing for our demo distribution" so they will be protected than use encryption from 7zip LZMA SDK on it with logic to get the key via https login that you can control (and keep is as a compiled c++ dll so no one can decompile it).
You can validate licenses with GargeGames profiles so only licensed users can access the code...
10/22/2011 (4:27 am)
I am a big Star-Trek fan and will help as much as I can...You can use many free control vendors that you can set up like TortoiseSVN that I find most useful and share the repository as a WEBDAV password protected web folder mapped to a net folder in windows.
You can pack your assets like in the "PAK file thing for our demo distribution" so they will be protected than use encryption from 7zip LZMA SDK on it with logic to get the key via https login that you can control (and keep is as a compiled c++ dll so no one can decompile it).
You can validate licenses with GargeGames profiles so only licensed users can access the code...
#6
Will set up a repository to get things started, and we can go from there. I'll check back in here when we're organized.
Anyone else interested can just make themselves known here and we can all get to work :)
Cheers!
10/25/2011 (3:14 pm)
Tomer/Lee - thanks for the info... Will set up a repository to get things started, and we can go from there. I'll check back in here when we're organized.
Anyone else interested can just make themselves known here and we can all get to work :)
Cheers!
#7
Server is Win32, IIS - I used Tortoise, created a repository alright and then tried to connect to it. Mapping a drive with WEBDAV in Windows7 works but is real slow, so eventually found SmartSvn to be the nicest client.
With SmartSvn was able to checkout the project, add then add and commit a group of files from my local drive.
Also hooked up WebSvn for a web-browser view of the repository, so I can see the new files are up there.
Needs a bit of fine tuning, but should do the trick. Now just need to set up a permissions group for us and add accounts.
Getting there...
10/25/2011 (11:30 pm)
Ran tryouts on various solutions tonight... Server is Win32, IIS - I used Tortoise, created a repository alright and then tried to connect to it. Mapping a drive with WEBDAV in Windows7 works but is real slow, so eventually found SmartSvn to be the nicest client.
With SmartSvn was able to checkout the project, add then add and commit a group of files from my local drive.
Also hooked up WebSvn for a web-browser view of the repository, so I can see the new files are up there.
Needs a bit of fine tuning, but should do the trick. Now just need to set up a permissions group for us and add accounts.
Getting there...
#8
Seems fitting :)
We do have a few technologies in there though that need to be either pruned out or we need permission to keep them in there - AFX, UAISK, Kaboom, etc. When we sort that out, everything we can include we will.
Thanks for your interest, this is going to be exciting...
10/25/2011 (11:44 pm)
Oh, and by the way, tonight we kind of thought about it and we're going to just give everything away. Actually include the source art, MS3Ds and what not, so anyone can edit and improve the models. With the hopes that this can become a living working Enterprise, built in a spirit of collaboration. Seems fitting :)
We do have a few technologies in there though that need to be either pruned out or we need permission to keep them in there - AFX, UAISK, Kaboom, etc. When we sort that out, everything we can include we will.
Thanks for your interest, this is going to be exciting...
#9
Let me know once you guys are sorta ready heh
10/26/2011 (12:12 am)
OK. This does sound very interesting.Let me know once you guys are sorta ready heh
#10
Can you verify owners of AFX, UAISK, Kaboom, etc. so they can get it shared too?
10/26/2011 (3:41 am)
I am happy to see you are getting there soon...Can you verify owners of AFX, UAISK, Kaboom, etc. so they can get it shared too?
#11
Also, it works through https and seems rather quick. I just checked out the empty project using SmartSvn, then added about 30 megs worth of stuff to my local copy and then checked it in and committed. Watched the byte count go up as SmartSvn successfully transferred everything up to the server. Then Used VirtualSvn's built-in web browser to confirm everything is there.
Nice :)
Now on to the next step of finding out what we need to prune from the code that we're not allowed to share...
Hoping to have the project available and accounts created within a couple of days, stay tuned.
So for now, who do we have? Only Mark and Tomer need accounts so far?
Looking forward to working with you all!
Cheers
10/26/2011 (7:00 am)
Update - Tortoise was giving me a bit of grief trying to integrate it with IIS, so I tried VisualSvn which works great... Standalone Apache install separate from my IIS sites - Even has its own easy-to-use user management independent from Windows so that will make things easier.Also, it works through https and seems rather quick. I just checked out the empty project using SmartSvn, then added about 30 megs worth of stuff to my local copy and then checked it in and committed. Watched the byte count go up as SmartSvn successfully transferred everything up to the server. Then Used VirtualSvn's built-in web browser to confirm everything is there.
Nice :)
Now on to the next step of finding out what we need to prune from the code that we're not allowed to share...
Hoping to have the project available and accounts created within a couple of days, stay tuned.
So for now, who do we have? Only Mark and Tomer need accounts so far?
Looking forward to working with you all!
Cheers
#12
For those who get involved who own the UAISK, we can share the .cs files with you through other channels than the repository once we confirm ownership.
I also need to buy my own copies of UAISK and AFX since I have seen the code for both while working on this project with Brian, something we keep forgetting to take care of that will be resolved asap.
More info to come, stay tuned...
10/26/2011 (8:45 am)
TJ says we're good to go if we just make sure all his UAISK code is only in DSO format, and that the AIMarker editor and associated scripts are removed from the tools folder. So that's good.For those who get involved who own the UAISK, we can share the .cs files with you through other channels than the repository once we confirm ownership.
I also need to buy my own copies of UAISK and AFX since I have seen the code for both while working on this project with Brian, something we keep forgetting to take care of that will be resolved asap.
More info to come, stay tuned...
#14
Maybe you could just send me a screen cap of your products page (with license numbers blacked out if you want), just so we have a record of your proofs of purchase. Not needed right now though, not until we need to exchange any of that 3rd party code...
I'm hoping that the AFX, UAISK and Kaboom parts of the project will actually be able to stay as they are, we're happy with our existing customization. But good to know we have an ally who can help tweak those parts if need be. :)
Almost done setting up the repository, uploading the DSO versions of the 3rd party kits now. Also added in disclaimers for the Kaboom art assets as requested by the developer (he's letting us include them but requests that nobody extract them for their own use).
Real close, probably sometime tomorrow the repository will be ready for you all... Pretty much ready now, but I want to do a full checkout and test first though - could take some time to download the whole thing the first time.
To get started, I ask that whoever is interested please send me an e-mail directly to paul.r.weston at gmail.com, so I can then reply to you with your individual logins and passwords to the repository. Put something like "Access to NCC1701 Project" in the subject line so I can spot the message easily.
10/26/2011 (5:39 pm)
Tomer - great, so if we need to look at any of that code you and I can exchange it via e-mail or something. Maybe you could just send me a screen cap of your products page (with license numbers blacked out if you want), just so we have a record of your proofs of purchase. Not needed right now though, not until we need to exchange any of that 3rd party code...
I'm hoping that the AFX, UAISK and Kaboom parts of the project will actually be able to stay as they are, we're happy with our existing customization. But good to know we have an ally who can help tweak those parts if need be. :)
Almost done setting up the repository, uploading the DSO versions of the 3rd party kits now. Also added in disclaimers for the Kaboom art assets as requested by the developer (he's letting us include them but requests that nobody extract them for their own use).
Real close, probably sometime tomorrow the repository will be ready for you all... Pretty much ready now, but I want to do a full checkout and test first though - could take some time to download the whole thing the first time.
To get started, I ask that whoever is interested please send me an e-mail directly to paul.r.weston at gmail.com, so I can then reply to you with your individual logins and passwords to the repository. Put something like "Access to NCC1701 Project" in the subject line so I can spot the message easily.
#15
Did a full checkout overnight and was able to launch the game successfully from that this morning, so looks like we're good to go. Did not try all the missions though, there may still be some issues, but we'll work through those as we find them.
Two users registered so far, I sent them their logins this morning.
Anyone else, feel free to request access - just send a pic of your products page to confirm T3D ownership.
PLEASE SEND REQUESTS TO PAUL.R.WESTON AT GMAIL.COM.
Looking forward to feedback and getting to work together with everyone on this...
Cheers!
Paul
PS - Enjoy the new menu music we have in the game, it was composed by a fan named Rich Douglas who has years of experience composing music for games and was created specifically for our project as a donation. He found our site, loved our idea, and within a few days sent us 3 original pieces that are a great homage to the original Star Trek score. Thanks Rich!
10/27/2011 (9:17 am)
The NCC1701 code repository is ready!Did a full checkout overnight and was able to launch the game successfully from that this morning, so looks like we're good to go. Did not try all the missions though, there may still be some issues, but we'll work through those as we find them.
Two users registered so far, I sent them their logins this morning.
Anyone else, feel free to request access - just send a pic of your products page to confirm T3D ownership.
PLEASE SEND REQUESTS TO PAUL.R.WESTON AT GMAIL.COM.
Looking forward to feedback and getting to work together with everyone on this...
Cheers!
Paul
PS - Enjoy the new menu music we have in the game, it was composed by a fan named Rich Douglas who has years of experience composing music for games and was created specifically for our project as a donation. He found our site, loved our idea, and within a few days sent us 3 original pieces that are a great homage to the original Star Trek score. Thanks Rich!
Torque 3D Owner Mark Peters