T3D vs TGEA?

#1 TGEA will run on most computers so from a performance perspective you are better off, I would suggest you have a look at it first because it comparison the editors and everything are horrible compared to Torque3D

#2 Torque 3D performs quite a bit better on my PC than TGEA, however performance is entirely GPU related. As Andy said, Torque 3D in-game editors are far better than TGEA, difference is night and day really.

#3 Well...

I can say this much: my old notebook [Intel Core2 Duo T7200 / nVidia 8600m GS] can run the SectorT3D demo quite smoothly, even in windowed mode (which that video chip hates), but only IF I turn the quality settings way down (low, not lowest) and use 640x480 resolution.

From what I can tell on the few experiments I've ran, T3D's default settings are a bit more demanding, but can be tweaked, and the engine seems to perform fairly well after the settings are dialed back.

I'd say give T3D a retry after trying to change how it renders on your machine. If you're up to it you might even try changing what assets are loading -- simpler textures and/or materials can make a huge difference.

If the results are still unacceptable (what's appropriate depends on what you're trying to make), then by all means give TGEA a try. Or even TGE.

#4 Alright. I'll retry T3D and then if I still don't like it, I'll take a look at TGEA. The game I'm trying to make is similar to minecraft; the terrain will be made out of individual datablocks.

Thanks for the help :)

#5 Look forward to hearing how that goes.

One thing that just occurred to me is how that'll make a good test for how many simultaneous simple-objects Torque can handle. Engines have balance points and bandwidth at different points in the code- just like computers: a screaming processor without a fast I/O bus gets hampered a bit in trying to do some tasks but others work great.

Just wondering if T3D handles large quantities of objects out of the box or if it'd need a little tweaking somewhere. Hope it can do it...

#6 Out of curiosity, how do you intend to "look at TGEA" when you don't have a license for it, and it's no longer for sale? (As I understand it, there's a bug in the web site code that allows T3D to download TGEA, but the license is a different matter.)

So, since you don't own TGEA and can't buy it, that makes its performance pretty much a moot point, doesn't it?

#7 Alright so lowering the resolution and graphics makes it a lot faster, but sometimes I will play and it will be super fast, other times it will still move, but it keeps randomly slowing down the movement, then speeding up really fast then doing it again. It's not freezing at all.

#8 @Sherman / @GG

Is that a bug in the website code? Or legit? I'd been under the [mis?]impression that newer licensees had rights to use historical engine releases.

@Mitchell

Is that using one of the project templates, one of the demos, or your own mission file with a lot of block-objects, or...?

I've noticed that if things are bogged down on low-end hardware, usually it is when either (a) certain objects are in my FOV or (b) too many objects are in my FOV.

For what you're trying to do, if you've not already gone this far, you may want to stress-test how many objects you can run by starting with the blank mission template and just add small cube after small cube after small cube... (there's some copy and paste, even in old TGE, that may help).

(Meanwhile, unless someone from GG says otherwise, Sherman may have a point, and you may want to stick to optimizing T3D until you can get a clarification. Regardless of whether I recall differently, I don't want to encourage you to do something that'll end up being more problematic for you later.)

#9 Even on the templates it seems to lag. I haven't tried adding cubes yet. I'll do that next.

#10 Definitely start with the blank template, then. ( Some of the templates are meant to show off what Torque can do on modern hardware, so the assets that are included might be more "rich" than your hardware can comfortably accommodate.)

If even that blank template lags, we have more fundamental worries for you. (I hope not!)

What hardware are you using?

#11 AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4400+, MMX, 3DNow (2 CPUs),
2.93 GB Ram,
ATI Radeon Xpress 200 Series 64.0 MB Ram,
32 Bit Windows XP Professional Service Pack 3.


And I was talking about the blank template when I said
"but sometimes I will play and it will be super fast, other times it will still move, but it keeps randomly slowing down the movement, then speeding up really fast then doing it again. It's not freezing at all."

So... :/

I have not tried the cubes yet. I will soon.

#12 Definitely. I have used both, Torque3D and TGEA, on a desktop with an ATI HD4670 and Torque3D is a performance and memory hog.
Secondly, real gamers don't choose games because of their fancy graphics, but for their gameplay (Minecraft is an example of this). Also using TGEA you will reach a wider audience because it could run on a GeForce 3.
The Torque3D editor is really good though. I loved the path editor.

#13 dont even get me started on that real gamers bullshit, EA is proof positive that graphics over substance earns billions in revenue every year, minecraft while a wonderfully successful indie game is an anomaly.

As for choosing between t3d and tgea, at this point it should be a no brainer, you can use low res textures and low poly models as well as basic lighting to emulate TGEA pretty nicely, and unless you really want to cater for every obscure and aged computer in use today id say stick with t3d. There are all kinds of other things graphically you can do to even further reduce your system reqs. however if you use the more advanced engine, you have the capability to change what your targetted minimum spec will be.

As for meows opinions, well he snot an owner of a legitamate version of any engines according to his profile dispite having source codes, so his knowledge would seemingly be inferior to that of most owners of the engines.

#14 @random9q
Sherman's correct, since Mitchell is a recent licensee he doesn't have a valid license to the legacy engines. It's bug of the website that downloads to them are being included in the previous versions section for new T3D licensees. With the new pricing licenses to those engines are no longer included in a T3D purchase. Anyone who has purchased a license for T3D since we restarted should expect to see those legacy downloads disappear sometime in the future when we're able to finally get that bug worked out.

#15 I'm wondering if theres any real harm in t3d owners having access to the older engines, unless of course they are not part of the package deal acquired by the new owners.

#16 @Scott

I stand clarified and corrected then. :-)

@Bloodknight

Probably you hit it right there.

@Meow/@Bloodknight:

Easier and more accurate to say "real people want to be really entertained". You need to work to sort out the specifics of how the people you're marketing to self-identify ("I'm a REAL gamer!") but what that implies is surprisingly varied and people get quite annoyed when you limit what that means to them. There are some form whom it means the $10k water-cooled PC and all the showcase graphics and twitch reflex accuracy to show they mean it, and there are those who are connoseurs of balanced gameplay mechanics and quirky geeky things both. They're slightly different markets except that they don't cleave apart neatly either. Regardless, the focus needs to be on the overall experience and how that fits together. Fantastic showstopper graphics contribute. Playability and sharability among a wide range of machines contributes, too. In either case you need to know which is more advantageous to the design you're trying to pull of because we all know as developers that this is just a competing priority.

#17 Guys, I been watching this thread and Im glad I did. I dont mean to hijack it here in anyway but I got a couple questions. I to had been using TGEA on a game I have been working on. As of today the first map was nearing completion then I read about the licensing. I did not buy Torque until GG came back to life at the new price and according to Scott this means I have to start over...as the old engines are useless to me now. Just for clarification, that is correct, right??

Secondly, like Mitchell's issue I opted for TGEA because I am not hung up on the latest and greatest graphics and T3D was a little more potent than I needed. So here's my question,T3D 1.1 is way to much at this point for my development, but what about T3D 1.0? Will it run faster on a bigger machine base, is it more stable than TGEA 1.8.2 and can I get it to run at close to its performance? Sorry for these questions but as fate would have it I'm back to the drawing board and I'd like to make sure I choose right this time, also could someone point me to the section in the license agreement that states we cannot use historical versions, I just cant find it?

Thanks guys.

#18 Ok so since the start of this topic, I've built a computer with i7 and HD4650, and it runs a lot smoother. I will stick with T3D for now, because it seems that most people playing games these days are upgrading to better pcs like I did. Thanks for the help.