I'm pretty convinced some of you folks are magicians...
by Mitovo · in Artist Corner · 06/06/2011 (3:42 pm) · 28 replies
Hello everyone,
So this is a post about creating good looking textures in T3D, specifically it's about finding that "magic formula" of diffuse and detail maps that yields some of the amazing results I see in the T3D demos (especially the newest ones released recently), and in some of the work done by users of the engine.
For my background, I'm a graphics artist/designer. I've done a lot of texture art with Photoshop, both entirely from scratch and using photo-sourced images. I can get some really nice effects using the various layer blending modes in PS and the right combination of textures. I understand the concept behind detail textures.
For the life of me, though, I can not "crack the code" to get consistently good-looking textures in T3D. It's entirely hit or miss.
I've gone through the threads recommending to use high-pass, others that say don't use high-pass but just desaturate the texture instead, I've tried different ranges of shades of gray that average around the 128 mark and don't deviate, but it just never looks right. It's either way too bright, way too dark, or extremes of both at the same. I try adjusting the "strength" setting for the diffuse texture... It's typically of little help.
I read posts by people who basically say, "it's easy... you just "x", "y" and "z", and their posts include a screenshot of a gorgeous looking, beautifully textured scene they created using their technique. I do what they suggest... and it looks terrible.
What's even more maddening is that there's the rare occasion where I get exactly the effect I'm going for the first time, with only a little tweaking - and I'm doing exactly the same thing, following the same guidelines and procedures that I used every other time and got horrible results. So, I can't even differentiate between what I did right that time, and what I did wrong every other. It's rather maddening lol.
I look at the texture work in the Pacific and Deathball demo in-game, and think "man, those look incredible". I look at the actual texture files in the folders, and understand what the process is. The diffuse texture provides the overall "coloring" for the texture layer, while the detail texture is overlayed to make it look like whatever kind of surface it is. I get it. I just can't replicate it.
So, I'm turning to the magicians here in the Torque community for some help. Is there any kind of "a ha!" moment you had when learning how T3D handles textures? Is there some kind of "guideline" you follow, certain specific details or steps you use... I've looked up some kind of tutorial explaining how to get the best results with textures in T3D, but to no avail.
Any kind of assistance would be most appreciated.
Thanks!
So this is a post about creating good looking textures in T3D, specifically it's about finding that "magic formula" of diffuse and detail maps that yields some of the amazing results I see in the T3D demos (especially the newest ones released recently), and in some of the work done by users of the engine.
For my background, I'm a graphics artist/designer. I've done a lot of texture art with Photoshop, both entirely from scratch and using photo-sourced images. I can get some really nice effects using the various layer blending modes in PS and the right combination of textures. I understand the concept behind detail textures.
For the life of me, though, I can not "crack the code" to get consistently good-looking textures in T3D. It's entirely hit or miss.
I've gone through the threads recommending to use high-pass, others that say don't use high-pass but just desaturate the texture instead, I've tried different ranges of shades of gray that average around the 128 mark and don't deviate, but it just never looks right. It's either way too bright, way too dark, or extremes of both at the same. I try adjusting the "strength" setting for the diffuse texture... It's typically of little help.
I read posts by people who basically say, "it's easy... you just "x", "y" and "z", and their posts include a screenshot of a gorgeous looking, beautifully textured scene they created using their technique. I do what they suggest... and it looks terrible.
What's even more maddening is that there's the rare occasion where I get exactly the effect I'm going for the first time, with only a little tweaking - and I'm doing exactly the same thing, following the same guidelines and procedures that I used every other time and got horrible results. So, I can't even differentiate between what I did right that time, and what I did wrong every other. It's rather maddening lol.
I look at the texture work in the Pacific and Deathball demo in-game, and think "man, those look incredible". I look at the actual texture files in the folders, and understand what the process is. The diffuse texture provides the overall "coloring" for the texture layer, while the detail texture is overlayed to make it look like whatever kind of surface it is. I get it. I just can't replicate it.
So, I'm turning to the magicians here in the Torque community for some help. Is there any kind of "a ha!" moment you had when learning how T3D handles textures? Is there some kind of "guideline" you follow, certain specific details or steps you use... I've looked up some kind of tutorial explaining how to get the best results with textures in T3D, but to no avail.
Any kind of assistance would be most appreciated.
Thanks!
About the author
#2
I spent another 2-3 hour last night working on a couple more textures, making adjustments, resaving, adjusting, resaving, trying different diffuse, saving... Thankfully, T3D automatically updates in-engine when you change an asset or it would have been a painful process lol.
But still, the results were hit or miss. In one case, I actually darkened the detail texture so its average was below the 128 value "mid point" but with spots going a bit above it, it ranged between the 116-136 range give or take. Everything should have started leaning toward the darker side, but there still should have been more "mid-tone" in there. I was applying it over a slightly darker diffuse. The texture came out looking like a speckled pattern of black and white spots with very little in-between. Lowering the detail layer's "strength" reduced the effect, but it also resulted in practically losing the effect of the detail map altogether.
I adjusted the detail texture in PS and, no matter what I did, could not get it to come out looking good. It either got too bright or too dark.
Again, this is odd, because I typically have no problem with understanding the whole detail map "overlay" process and have worked with it in other game engines just fine. Apparently T3D has a different way of handling them that's just not "clicking" for me.
06/07/2011 (5:15 am)
Heheh, well it would be sadder still, then, that I am a graphics person, and can't seem to figure it out.I spent another 2-3 hour last night working on a couple more textures, making adjustments, resaving, adjusting, resaving, trying different diffuse, saving... Thankfully, T3D automatically updates in-engine when you change an asset or it would have been a painful process lol.
But still, the results were hit or miss. In one case, I actually darkened the detail texture so its average was below the 128 value "mid point" but with spots going a bit above it, it ranged between the 116-136 range give or take. Everything should have started leaning toward the darker side, but there still should have been more "mid-tone" in there. I was applying it over a slightly darker diffuse. The texture came out looking like a speckled pattern of black and white spots with very little in-between. Lowering the detail layer's "strength" reduced the effect, but it also resulted in practically losing the effect of the detail map altogether.
I adjusted the detail texture in PS and, no matter what I did, could not get it to come out looking good. It either got too bright or too dark.
Again, this is odd, because I typically have no problem with understanding the whole detail map "overlay" process and have worked with it in other game engines just fine. Apparently T3D has a different way of handling them that's just not "clicking" for me.
#3
There's an interesting thread about it right here:
www.garagegames.com/community/forums/viewthread/120247
And some interesting examples here:
www.brokeassgames.com/Community/index.php?PHPSESSID=71dbe93c2ea59519099122aee63a...
06/07/2011 (2:45 pm)
Are you talking about terrain textures?There's an interesting thread about it right here:
www.garagegames.com/community/forums/viewthread/120247
And some interesting examples here:
www.brokeassgames.com/Community/index.php?PHPSESSID=71dbe93c2ea59519099122aee63a...
#4
Yeah, I was referring to the terrain. Guess that would be a helpful bit of info, wouldn't it.
Thanks for the link... Shows as a "Private Thread" for me, unfortunately. I still haven't gotten around to getting a T3D license... Stupid finances always getting in the way.
As for the second link with the sample images... Why must you tease me so?! D:
Seriously... Some nice work there :). Well, not a fan of parallax mapping; always has this weird "warped" look to it that doesn't look natural to me.
I'll get the hang of it at some point. I just need to wrap my head around how the diffuse and detail textures interact with and influence each other. Once that "clicks", I'll be fine. It's just eluding me as of right now heh.
06/07/2011 (2:56 pm)
Hey there Skipper.Yeah, I was referring to the terrain. Guess that would be a helpful bit of info, wouldn't it.
Thanks for the link... Shows as a "Private Thread" for me, unfortunately. I still haven't gotten around to getting a T3D license... Stupid finances always getting in the way.
As for the second link with the sample images... Why must you tease me so?! D:
Seriously... Some nice work there :). Well, not a fan of parallax mapping; always has this weird "warped" look to it that doesn't look natural to me.
I'll get the hang of it at some point. I just need to wrap my head around how the diffuse and detail textures interact with and influence each other. Once that "clicks", I'll be fine. It's just eluding me as of right now heh.
#5
I'm getting exactly the same results as with my own textures, which is really odd, because they look fine in the demo.
This tells me that there's something really screwy going on somewhere else. Or I'm missing some glaring detail that's throwing everything off.
I'll post a couple screenshots here to show what I'm talking about. Next to the crazy looking textures, you can see the one and only texture that's come out exactly as I want it and I'm really happy with; the brown dirt texture. Ironically, the detail texture for that breaks one of the "rules" I see regarding detail maps, in that its average value is much darker than 128. I have to keep it at about .25 for it to look good.
Try as I might, however, I have been unable to get anything even *close* to those results again.
Here's the screenshots. Please keep in mind that the results are either way blown-out or too dark, or too faded no matter what strength or size settings I use.
Sample 1
Sammple 2
So... maybe seeing the screenshots will help.
06/07/2011 (3:40 pm)
Okay, so I've done more experimentation. This time, I'm using textures provided by GG with the engine, as well as a couple samples copied over from their DeathBall Desert demo.I'm getting exactly the same results as with my own textures, which is really odd, because they look fine in the demo.
This tells me that there's something really screwy going on somewhere else. Or I'm missing some glaring detail that's throwing everything off.
I'll post a couple screenshots here to show what I'm talking about. Next to the crazy looking textures, you can see the one and only texture that's come out exactly as I want it and I'm really happy with; the brown dirt texture. Ironically, the detail texture for that breaks one of the "rules" I see regarding detail maps, in that its average value is much darker than 128. I have to keep it at about .25 for it to look good.
Try as I might, however, I have been unable to get anything even *close* to those results again.
Here's the screenshots. Please keep in mind that the results are either way blown-out or too dark, or too faded no matter what strength or size settings I use.
Sample 1
Sammple 2
So... maybe seeing the screenshots will help.
#6
When making detail textures, you dont want to be treating it like a diffuse image, also bear in mind that it does _not_ have to be a grey scale image.
Work on your texture as if it was a photo image of what you want it to look like when your finished, then run it through a high pass filter in photoshop set somewhere between 7.5 and 12.5 depending on how much it effects your base image. That retains enough of the colour data that it doesent show up over exposed like your examples and keeps the detail of the texture.
Thats how these textures detail maps were made
Also with parallax, its very picky, majority of the time you dont really want to go over 0.03 for the setting, its no use using the slider just type the values into the material editor field. Apart from the 5 large rocks, this is just terrain, the detail it pics up from the normal and parallax can be seen in the first pic, the textures in the second.
06/12/2011 (5:11 am)
Hi Mike,When making detail textures, you dont want to be treating it like a diffuse image, also bear in mind that it does _not_ have to be a grey scale image.
Work on your texture as if it was a photo image of what you want it to look like when your finished, then run it through a high pass filter in photoshop set somewhere between 7.5 and 12.5 depending on how much it effects your base image. That retains enough of the colour data that it doesent show up over exposed like your examples and keeps the detail of the texture.
Thats how these textures detail maps were made
Also with parallax, its very picky, majority of the time you dont really want to go over 0.03 for the setting, its no use using the slider just type the values into the material editor field. Apart from the 5 large rocks, this is just terrain, the detail it pics up from the normal and parallax can be seen in the first pic, the textures in the second.
#7
06/14/2011 (12:46 am)
Yes, Andy Wright is a magician. =P
#8
Thank you for that explanation and, looking at your images, I think it makes a lot more sense to me now. It's almost like the Diffuse/Detail system works almost in reverse of how it used to. It used to be that the diffuse texture provided the main source of detail, where detail textures helping to provide the illusion of more detail up close, where the diffuse texture would normally become really pixelated/blurry.
It seems now that the diffuse texture merely provides the underlying color for the surface, while the detail texture (without including normal or parallax layers yet) actually gives the surface its full detail.
Essentially, the detail texture now does what the diffuse texture used to in earlier implementations of the diffuse/detail setup.
If that's the case, then I think I *may* have it worked out, but I'll have to test it out for myself to know for sure.
Thanks for the info.. Also, some beautiful texture work there!
06/14/2011 (8:29 pm)
@Andy,Thank you for that explanation and, looking at your images, I think it makes a lot more sense to me now. It's almost like the Diffuse/Detail system works almost in reverse of how it used to. It used to be that the diffuse texture provided the main source of detail, where detail textures helping to provide the illusion of more detail up close, where the diffuse texture would normally become really pixelated/blurry.
It seems now that the diffuse texture merely provides the underlying color for the surface, while the detail texture (without including normal or parallax layers yet) actually gives the surface its full detail.
Essentially, the detail texture now does what the diffuse texture used to in earlier implementations of the diffuse/detail setup.
If that's the case, then I think I *may* have it worked out, but I'll have to test it out for myself to know for sure.
Thanks for the info.. Also, some beautiful texture work there!
#9
And, again, going back a few posts where I link to the screenshots showing how I used actual textures used in an official T3D demo (a stone/cliff texture used in Deathball Desert), and another set included with the T3D demo doing the same thing.. getting either completely blown/washed out, or going too dark to see anything.
To be sure, I'm working within ranges of, like... .05 to 2 and everything in-between. I've tried different sizes for the textures. There is no "sweet spot" or even acceptable range of quality I have been able to achieve. It's either way too bright or way too dark, or is so faint that there's hardly any detail at all.
There's definitely something going on here. At this point I'm more and more convinced it's not something to do with my textures since, again, it's not only happening with my textures. It's happening with textures from GG and its demos as well.
Can anyone else suggest anything else that might be wrong? A setting somewhere I might be missing?
-Begin Side Note -
I'm saying this only because people have done so before...
Please, if anyone is going to get ornery and do the whole "why don't you read the documentation"... don't waste your time. I have. I've read the documentation here, I've done google searches, youtube searches, forum searches... you name it, I've searched it, using a wide variety of search phrases. Nothing I've found addresses the issue I'm having here.
-End Side Note-
If I can't get past such an issue as simply applying texture layers to terrain and having them look the way I need them to - something I have zero problems with in any other engine I've tried - then maybe T3D was simply the wrong choice for a game engine. At least I can say I took the time and made the sincere effort to figure it out.
We'll see.
06/15/2011 (4:52 am)
Okay... So I've done more experimentation and am still getting the same results. I'm doing exactly what you suggested, Andy... and the results are still the same. The surface either gets completely blown out, or it gets completely too dark... either way it loses all detail. It makes absolutely no difference what I do.And, again, going back a few posts where I link to the screenshots showing how I used actual textures used in an official T3D demo (a stone/cliff texture used in Deathball Desert), and another set included with the T3D demo doing the same thing.. getting either completely blown/washed out, or going too dark to see anything.
To be sure, I'm working within ranges of, like... .05 to 2 and everything in-between. I've tried different sizes for the textures. There is no "sweet spot" or even acceptable range of quality I have been able to achieve. It's either way too bright or way too dark, or is so faint that there's hardly any detail at all.
There's definitely something going on here. At this point I'm more and more convinced it's not something to do with my textures since, again, it's not only happening with my textures. It's happening with textures from GG and its demos as well.
Can anyone else suggest anything else that might be wrong? A setting somewhere I might be missing?
-Begin Side Note -
I'm saying this only because people have done so before...
Please, if anyone is going to get ornery and do the whole "why don't you read the documentation"... don't waste your time. I have. I've read the documentation here, I've done google searches, youtube searches, forum searches... you name it, I've searched it, using a wide variety of search phrases. Nothing I've found addresses the issue I'm having here.
-End Side Note-
If I can't get past such an issue as simply applying texture layers to terrain and having them look the way I need them to - something I have zero problems with in any other engine I've tried - then maybe T3D was simply the wrong choice for a game engine. At least I can say I took the time and made the sincere effort to figure it out.
We'll see.
#10
Can you post the base image you are using to create your detail map, aswell as one of the details that you have made from it ? I will load them up in my project to see how they come out, and will also see what I can do with the source image to see if thats the issue.
Also what file format are you saving them as ?
06/15/2011 (7:26 am)
Hi Mike,Can you post the base image you are using to create your detail map, aswell as one of the details that you have made from it ? I will load them up in my project to see how they come out, and will also see what I can do with the source image to see if thats the issue.
Also what file format are you saving them as ?
#11
06/17/2011 (1:53 pm)
you may be overpowering your diffuse with the strength of the detail map which is what it looks like in the samples on post 5. You may need to just adjust the strength value for each of the detail textures you use it looks like you are overpowering your diffuse with the detail when instead you need to find a balance between the two maps as they are blended together in the engine. There is no one size fits all solutions on detail textures it all depends on the color values used in the creation of your detail map and diffuse map.
#12
06/17/2011 (2:11 pm)
Yeah its the way his detail map's made Ken, going off the old way for creating them for tge/tgea which no longer count which is why their too over exposed like that.
#13
I've tried every setting from practically "zero" (e.g. 0.02, 0.009, etc) up to whole values like 2 and 3. It either falls consistently between two extremes (way too dark or way too bright), or is so faded and dull that it may as well not be there at all. I'm not just using one or two values and calling it quits. I've spent, literally, hours creating, re-creating, tweaking and modifying textures... I've pored over page after page of forum threads, google searched myriad different terms to try and find even *one* resource that would de-mystify the process for me, to no avail.
I've tried the "desaturate" approach, I've tried the "High Pass" approach (including Andy Wright's) using values between 7.5 and 12.5. I've tried it with some color still left in the texture, I've tried it with very little color left in the texture. I've tried it with lighter value, medium value and darker value diffuse textures.
Nothing I do is making a difference. It always comes out to the same 3 results... too dark, too bright or too "faded".
@Andy
I'd be willing to accept that it's the way I'm making my textures - and in fact, I had - if not for the fact that I'm getting exactly the same results using even the ones included with T3D. The one in 'Sample 2' I linked above is from the Deathball Desert demo, taken straight out of its texture folder. I get the same result as with my own... even though it looks awesome in the DBD demo itself.
This is why I'm asking if there's some other factor or setting in the editor that I might be missing. It could be as seemingly unrelated as a graphics setting I have enabled that, perhaps, is problematic.
You can say 'well you just have to find the right settings' or whatever. But honestly, there's no reason why, no good defense for something as fundamental as getting textures into a world editor to be *this* involved. The only other engine I've ever seen with as tedious a material system is the C4 engine from Terathon. It's equally obtuse and tedious.
Incidentally, I've since decided to check out the Esenthel engine and, good lord, it's like night and day. After getting the engine installed and reviewing a brief piece of documentation, it took me all of 5 minutes to get a texture created and into the engine, looking exactly the way I wanted it; normal maps and all. No fiddling. No decimal places. No having to "balance diffuse maps with detail maps". No having to jump back and forth between Photoshop and the editor to see if the changes did the trick. No hoops to jump through.
Their editor allows you to simply drag all the relevant textures you need into the material editor - from any location on your HD - and it places them in the appropriate slot. From there you have a series of sliders to tweak the settings, with a real-time preview updating as you adjust them. Once you're happy with the results, you save it and it compiles all the materials into a tidy .mtrl file. Simple, straight forward and intuitive.
The GG folks can learn a lot from Esenthel's material editor alone. Seriously, check out this link and look how straight forward it is getting materials into the editor.
All those sliders represent different aspects... bump, normal, specularity, etc. They all update in real-time; none of this "back and forth" guess-work nonsense. It's just as easy with terrain textures.
For what reason GG chose such a tedious and obtuse method for such a basic function is beyond me.
I truly appreciate all who have taken the time to give advice and help me out. It doesn't go un-noticed. At the end of the day, though, I simply can't justify fussing with the T3D's wonky tools when a similar engine in the same price bracket handles it so beautifully and painlessly.
06/19/2011 (10:05 am)
@Ken:I've tried every setting from practically "zero" (e.g. 0.02, 0.009, etc) up to whole values like 2 and 3. It either falls consistently between two extremes (way too dark or way too bright), or is so faded and dull that it may as well not be there at all. I'm not just using one or two values and calling it quits. I've spent, literally, hours creating, re-creating, tweaking and modifying textures... I've pored over page after page of forum threads, google searched myriad different terms to try and find even *one* resource that would de-mystify the process for me, to no avail.
I've tried the "desaturate" approach, I've tried the "High Pass" approach (including Andy Wright's) using values between 7.5 and 12.5. I've tried it with some color still left in the texture, I've tried it with very little color left in the texture. I've tried it with lighter value, medium value and darker value diffuse textures.
Nothing I do is making a difference. It always comes out to the same 3 results... too dark, too bright or too "faded".
@Andy
I'd be willing to accept that it's the way I'm making my textures - and in fact, I had - if not for the fact that I'm getting exactly the same results using even the ones included with T3D. The one in 'Sample 2' I linked above is from the Deathball Desert demo, taken straight out of its texture folder. I get the same result as with my own... even though it looks awesome in the DBD demo itself.
This is why I'm asking if there's some other factor or setting in the editor that I might be missing. It could be as seemingly unrelated as a graphics setting I have enabled that, perhaps, is problematic.
You can say 'well you just have to find the right settings' or whatever. But honestly, there's no reason why, no good defense for something as fundamental as getting textures into a world editor to be *this* involved. The only other engine I've ever seen with as tedious a material system is the C4 engine from Terathon. It's equally obtuse and tedious.
Incidentally, I've since decided to check out the Esenthel engine and, good lord, it's like night and day. After getting the engine installed and reviewing a brief piece of documentation, it took me all of 5 minutes to get a texture created and into the engine, looking exactly the way I wanted it; normal maps and all. No fiddling. No decimal places. No having to "balance diffuse maps with detail maps". No having to jump back and forth between Photoshop and the editor to see if the changes did the trick. No hoops to jump through.
Their editor allows you to simply drag all the relevant textures you need into the material editor - from any location on your HD - and it places them in the appropriate slot. From there you have a series of sliders to tweak the settings, with a real-time preview updating as you adjust them. Once you're happy with the results, you save it and it compiles all the materials into a tidy .mtrl file. Simple, straight forward and intuitive.
The GG folks can learn a lot from Esenthel's material editor alone. Seriously, check out this link and look how straight forward it is getting materials into the editor.
All those sliders represent different aspects... bump, normal, specularity, etc. They all update in real-time; none of this "back and forth" guess-work nonsense. It's just as easy with terrain textures.
For what reason GG chose such a tedious and obtuse method for such a basic function is beyond me.
I truly appreciate all who have taken the time to give advice and help me out. It doesn't go un-noticed. At the end of the day, though, I simply can't justify fussing with the T3D's wonky tools when a similar engine in the same price bracket handles it so beautifully and painlessly.
#14
What color and ambient color have your sun set to? I was messing around with terrain textures too and the sun's default ambient was black when you created a new one. I changed it to white and the terrain textures look a lot better.
06/19/2011 (10:33 am)
@MikeWhat color and ambient color have your sun set to? I was messing around with terrain textures too and the sun's default ambient was black when you created a new one. I changed it to white and the terrain textures look a lot better.
#15
Hey there..
I'm beginning to suspect that might be the case. I'd uninstalled T3D after my last post, having finally decided it wasn't worth the aggravation lol.
However, after reading your post, I was intrigued and decided to reinstall and see if that might be the case. I do know that I'd messed with the sky/sun settings in my previous installation and, so, that *might* have been the cause.
I'd have to try messing with the settings again to know for sure, but it would definitely support my suspicion earlier that there's something other than the diffuse/detail mix that was causing it. Again, it was even happening with textures used in T3D's official textures which, obviously, look brilliant in those.
I'll experiment a bit and see what I can come up with.
06/25/2011 (3:57 pm)
@AlexHey there..
I'm beginning to suspect that might be the case. I'd uninstalled T3D after my last post, having finally decided it wasn't worth the aggravation lol.
However, after reading your post, I was intrigued and decided to reinstall and see if that might be the case. I do know that I'd messed with the sky/sun settings in my previous installation and, so, that *might* have been the cause.
I'd have to try messing with the settings again to know for sure, but it would definitely support my suspicion earlier that there's something other than the diffuse/detail mix that was causing it. Again, it was even happening with textures used in T3D's official textures which, obviously, look brilliant in those.
I'll experiment a bit and see what I can come up with.
#16
I even got to implement normal maps.
Here's a quick shot I took a few minutes ago. It can certainly use more tweaking, etc... But the point is, it looks the way I'd expect it to given the textures and settings used.
As for the sun settings, that doesn't seem to be it; I tried adjusting the sun settings in the ScatterSky properties, but it didn't create the "blown out" or "burnt" effect I kept getting before.
So.. *something* was different somewhere that made it go all screwy for me last time. I'll make sure to pay attention to anything I change this time if it happens again... then maybe I can track it down.
It definitely wasn't just my diffuse/detail settings because, again, I'm using the same combination of everything I used last time, and it's working out this time.
Really weird.
06/25/2011 (5:14 pm)
Okay so I've done a bit of experimentation and, interestingly, have been able to get much better results, using the same exact textures (diffuse and detail) that I used last time around. I'm doing nothing different, same overall settings, same textures, etc. I even got to implement normal maps.
Here's a quick shot I took a few minutes ago. It can certainly use more tweaking, etc... But the point is, it looks the way I'd expect it to given the textures and settings used.
As for the sun settings, that doesn't seem to be it; I tried adjusting the sun settings in the ScatterSky properties, but it didn't create the "blown out" or "burnt" effect I kept getting before.
So.. *something* was different somewhere that made it go all screwy for me last time. I'll make sure to pay attention to anything I change this time if it happens again... then maybe I can track it down.
It definitely wasn't just my diffuse/detail settings because, again, I'm using the same combination of everything I used last time, and it's working out this time.
Really weird.
#17
I'm a coder, and I take that approach with programming. One change at a time, then build and test. When (not if) something goes wrong, that makes it immediately obvious that the most recent change is what caused the problem.
06/25/2011 (6:20 pm)
Quote:So.. *something* was different somewhere that made it go all screwy for me last time. I'll make sure to pay attention to anything I change this time if it happens again... then maybe I can track it down.
I'm a coder, and I take that approach with programming. One change at a time, then build and test. When (not if) something goes wrong, that makes it immediately obvious that the most recent change is what caused the problem.
#18
Yeah. Last time around, I was experimenting with different settings and different aspects of the lighting and such to see what kind of "atmospheres" I could achieve with relatively little fussing.
I'm guessing that something I did in those steps is what screwed everything up. No one's really provided any concrete info in that direction... So, I guess I'll find out if/when it happens again.
06/25/2011 (7:04 pm)
Quote:I'm a coder, and I take that approach with programming. One change at a time, then build and test. When (not if) something goes wrong, that makes it immediately obvious that the most recent change is what caused the problem.
Yeah. Last time around, I was experimenting with different settings and different aspects of the lighting and such to see what kind of "atmospheres" I could achieve with relatively little fussing.
I'm guessing that something I did in those steps is what screwed everything up. No one's really provided any concrete info in that direction... So, I guess I'll find out if/when it happens again.
#19
I just re-opened T3D to edit the map I showed a screenshot of above... with working textures.
Here's what I was greeted with:
Click Here
In my previous posts, I noted that I'd gotten the textures to work correctly, and that I would pay attention to changes I make in the editor to see what might result in the textures becoming screwed up.
Luckily, retracing what I did is quite easy... I closed the editor, and then opened it up again only hours later. I didn't touch a single lighting option since I last used it. I didn't do *anything*. The settings are all the same. The textures are all the same. The values are all the same. I changed not one thing.
I closed the editor, went off to have dinner, played some FFXIII, came back to my computer, and re-opened it.
So basically... closing T3D and re-opening it screws up my textures, and now I'm right back to what I dealt with last time. Nothing I do corrects it.
Seems the mistake I keep making is giving this "engine" another chance time and again. Every time ends in frustration and disappointment.
I've owned a license going back as far as the original Torque Engine, had upgraded to TGEA thinking it would improve on TGE's flaws (it didn't). I figured maybe this time, it being a brand-new engine, not merely an upgrade, things would be better. They aren't. It's just one set of problems replaced with another.
I can only conclude that anyone successfully producing anything with this "engine" is doing so in spite of it, rather than because of it.
Good luck to anyone trying this "engine" out. Hopefully you'll get lucky and the damn thing will actually work the way it's supposed to without you having to fuss with it endlessly first.
Before anyone asks.. My hardware is more than capable of running it (NVidia GeForce 460GTX), my drivers are up to date (latest version,
275.33, released as of 2011.06.01). T3D is the only 3D "engine" giving me any issues on my system. So, no... it's nothing I'm doing "wrong" at this end.
06/25/2011 (8:39 pm)
Okay... As of now I'm officially done with this engine.I just re-opened T3D to edit the map I showed a screenshot of above... with working textures.
Here's what I was greeted with:
Click Here
In my previous posts, I noted that I'd gotten the textures to work correctly, and that I would pay attention to changes I make in the editor to see what might result in the textures becoming screwed up.
Luckily, retracing what I did is quite easy... I closed the editor, and then opened it up again only hours later. I didn't touch a single lighting option since I last used it. I didn't do *anything*. The settings are all the same. The textures are all the same. The values are all the same. I changed not one thing.
I closed the editor, went off to have dinner, played some FFXIII, came back to my computer, and re-opened it.
So basically... closing T3D and re-opening it screws up my textures, and now I'm right back to what I dealt with last time. Nothing I do corrects it.
Seems the mistake I keep making is giving this "engine" another chance time and again. Every time ends in frustration and disappointment.
I've owned a license going back as far as the original Torque Engine, had upgraded to TGEA thinking it would improve on TGE's flaws (it didn't). I figured maybe this time, it being a brand-new engine, not merely an upgrade, things would be better. They aren't. It's just one set of problems replaced with another.
I can only conclude that anyone successfully producing anything with this "engine" is doing so in spite of it, rather than because of it.
Good luck to anyone trying this "engine" out. Hopefully you'll get lucky and the damn thing will actually work the way it's supposed to without you having to fuss with it endlessly first.
Before anyone asks.. My hardware is more than capable of running it (NVidia GeForce 460GTX), my drivers are up to date (latest version,
275.33, released as of 2011.06.01). T3D is the only 3D "engine" giving me any issues on my system. So, no... it's nothing I'm doing "wrong" at this end.
#20
06/26/2011 (1:17 pm)
wouldnt be the first time nvidia have messed up drivers, i'll download them and try since i have the same hardware, i'm currently using 266.58 with no problems. 
Torque Owner Andy Rollins
ZDay Game
It does seem though that some people just seem to know that additional few steps/tweaks or pixie dust to make things look magical and hopefully they wouldn't mind sharing.