studio/secondary-user Licensing Conundrum..

#21 whoa, you're taking my words out of context.

"bit" refers to you anyone thinking all I cared about was the $99 and not the yellow-tape issues. So think of "bit" as in "act or skit" whereas BIT is also the current form of storyline or attention.
**Hence; actors in a play practice saying let's drop this "bit"..meaning let's turn the page(remove this from the play) and go to something more on point.**

Erik, you put some awful of words in my mouth by way of public assumption.
- I simply do not understand why you publicly stated your assumptions of my use of "bit"..I have never heard of that context and in no way do I think there is any sort of slight or scam..I don't think those statements could even imply that when considering I previously mentioned I would pay 2 or 3 times the regular cost, for a studio license. I find it spiteful that you don't know me, yet you twist my words and announce bad assumptions publicly.I'm taken back by all of this..really.
- I never for one moment thought about getting 1 license and tossing it between people or scamming anyone in any way.

***
Here are my thoughts..so that we're clear and we can stop these assumptions and misconceptions placed upon my words.

$99 is a phenomenal price.I even said that I do not mind paying extra for a studio license, 2x's or even 3x's the current price!!!!
I'd like to have studio "seat licenses"..THAT is the yellow tape here.
I am not talking about 1, but a few to several.
***

#22 Back on topic:
I would like studio-seat-licensing because I would prefer to buy X seat-licenses as so I can have X current-employees use them over the next few years.
5 licenses to 5 employees. ..if 1 leaves, I would find a new employee for that open license. Only 5 people to ever use the seats, no shuffling.

- It's basic security which allows me to rest assured that we're set with being legal and that I don't have to worry about pricing changes or who owns Torque each year OR even the forcing of new EULA's onto my existing project.
Example: I buy 10 licenses, & 1 year from now I need #11, but IAC owns Torque again and their EULA is different from yours.. which might screwup my final gameplan.

Summation: I am looking for security of my business and for security for my "fishhooked-investors".

I have employees lined up, I'd like workable licensing that doesn't leave a possible open ended ticket into chaos and possible complete loss.
If I can't obtain (4 or 5 to start) studio seat licensing, I will not be using Torque. As simple as that. I will not risk my future and investor money on hoping I can continually buy the same exact licenses for $X for years, let alone months simply because you think you'll still own the company for as long as I am working in the venue. There is no security for businesses within the current licensing.


Is my idea coming through now ? Please ask questions..I'd like to find a resolve and possibly bring hope back to others who are too afraid to bother.

//edit: Last chance at making sense:
What happens when a game-dev business runs out of licenses and Torque is owned by some company that no longer sells licenses ? There is no security in the current licensing.

#23 I actually agree somewhat with what eb's saying - there needs to be a separate licensing option for studios. Its not about the price, but more of the EULA/license usage. For example, if we have a new hire and he/she has his/her own Torque license, we can "save" on one seat under the studio license and assign that to another employee. Though a question raised was that whether the work that the employee does under the personal license is considered personal or studio property.

On a somewhat-related note, an interesting idea is to see whether the license we have is linked to an individual account or studio account, e.g. T2D [Individual] - Linked to "XXX Company" if an individual has his own license and is working for the company, and T2D ["XXX company"].

#24 EB, thanks for the clarification on your usage of the word 'bit' but I'm not particularly interested in arguing with you about your tone - your track record of posts on this site speaks for itself.

Quote:How can you turn an honest inquiry into me trying to be a complete arse.

You did that yourself with your original post:

Quote:So, how can I grab this person a TGB license, legally, yet still retain full control over that license while still allowing them to not get set on fire by the torches of the forum troll foundations ?

And with your replies:

Quote:how would this person use the forums without getting torched by torque orcs ?

Quote:ugh, fanbois posts..

Quote:how would that person ask questions or chat in the forums without being fanboi-attacked

And my favorite "I'm taking my ball and going home" moment:

Quote:Either way, I'm going to quit this debate/thread as I think that it's going to invite loads of unwanted "hey look at me" posters.

I love how you used the word 'debate'. Up to that point, no one was really 'debating' anything. We said we would think about it. I attempted to explain my original logic for getting rid of the Studio License... and clearly said that nothing is set in stone. I was looking for an honest discussion. Instead I got sucked into the EB vortex. In your universe, we were apparently in a debate the whole time.

Eventually, you rambled your way to a justification for a Studio License - for security, for peace of mind. And you know what, its a totally valid point. But its something you could have said without all crap slinging along the way.

You've already had one person in this thread call you a jerk. If you look at your history of posts on this site as a whole, it is laughable. And yet despite all that, I've shot down every request to ban you and I still want to hear what you have to say. I just wish you would come out and say it rather than insult practically everyone you come across.

#25 @daffodilistic:

Quote: a question raised was that whether the work that the employee does under the personal license is considered personal or studio property.

Generally speaking any work for hire would belong to the studio, although that is usually spelled out clearly in an employment agreement (or contractor agreement). Our EULA certainly would not impact that in any way. Basically if the studio is paying them to do the work, then the studio owns the work. Its really no different than if the employee is using their own pencil, or their own personal computer - even if they are working from home. But you should definitely talk to a lawyer if you are concerned about that sort of issue.

Quote:On a somewhat-related note, an interesting idea is to see whether the license we have is linked to an individual account or studio account, e.g. T2D [Individual] - Linked to "XXX Company" if an individual has his own license and is working for the company, and T2D ["XXX company"].

If I follow you correctly, then I *think* you can do that already, by clicking on a user's name - try it on someone in this thread. You should see a pop up that shows what products they own, and if they are under Studio Licenses or not (for example, if you click on EBs, you should see a Studio version of T3D listed). You may have to click into their profile or their 'studio profile' if they have one to get the information you are looking for. But is that what you are even asking?

Quote:I actually agree somewhat with what eb's saying - there needs to be a separate licensing option for studios. Its not about the price, but more of the EULA/license usage. For example, if we have a new hire and he/she has his/her own Torque license, we can "save" on one seat under the studio license and assign that to another employee.

How would you want this to work? Would you accept that to get a Studio License you must buy at least 5 or 10 seats? (as a point of reference, our minimum # seats for education licenses is 10 - and that is for a limited term, after-which they must renew). Would you accept having to pay a premium price for the studio license - say 50% or 100% more than an Individual License.

Let's just say the minimum number of seats for a Studio License is 5... if you wanted a 6th license would you expect to be able to buy one additional seat or would you object to having to buy another pack of 5?

You said its not about the price, but at what point does price start to matter? If we did allow you to buy 1 additional Studio License seat, would you object to having to pay a significant premium compared to an individual license - say for example, instead of $99 you would have to pay $199 for 1 additional studio seat?

#26 @Erik;
(*Don't take this post as anything but lighthearted and honest*..I'm a different breed and people suggest I use disclaimers at times.)

Less than 10% of my posts are laughable, the other 90% are me helping others. It's human nature to always focus on the bad aspects, so..no worries on that.

The quotes you have above are focused on being humorous;look into the linguistics..those words are colorful and general. Perhaps it's my NY sarcasm that helps me find them funny. ::shrugs::

Also; I don't mind being called a jerk, I am here for business.
I am honest, I succeed and I don't lie or cheat. I over-extend myself to ensure I remain within legal limits(*cough* this thread). I admit I am an arsehat..ask anyone; I even change my name to "pain in the butt" from time to time.
I am very focused and in order to get to my goals, I need to proverbially bump against shoulders and knock a few people off their chairs. ..but I also help out, ALOT. I work hard and go to great lengths to help many people here, learn. I supply Max users with a current DTS exporters & other tools. I make personal video-tutorials to help people on the more advanced technical portions of Torque technology. ..and I do many other things to contribute.
So I am a jerk but "loveable jerk" would be more appropriate. I do get "thank you emails" for the same attitude/posts that you dislike. ..it's a silly world, I'll admit that.

One last thing about the post before I get onto the license topic again;
- I wasn't "taking my ball and going home"..I was pulling myself away from repeatedly pounding my head on my desk because reading multiple replies about "$99 being the problem solver" was making me crazy.
- "taking my ball and going home" ?
..if that makes you feel better, then that's cool. I'm alright with that. Just be aware that wasn't what was really happening. :P


Anyhow, I'm glad you see my point(s) now.
- I simply need security before I spend more money on any license types.


chow,
- pain-in-the-arse (E.B.) :P


P.S. As for Erik's second post;
I was sent a quote today; 5 studio seats for $125 each. It's kind of silly that this thread had to get so crazy when this licensing was available all along. (nothing in the email said this quote was private)

#27 Just to back up the "loveable jerk" aspect, EB has helped me when others couldnt or wouldnt. So i thank him for that.



to topic at hand, studio licenses are a great for the reasons EB has stated, it allows a small S corp like me to plan for the future and make sure everything is up and up.

#28 EB,

If someone sent you an email like that, I'm quite sure they didn't mean it to be made public. More importantly they didn't do it with my approval. We DO NOT sell Studio Licenses. End of story. I will take it up with the guys immediately. IF we do start selling Studio Licenses, the price is probably going to have to be higher than $125.

I know your history. I know about your exporters. No explanations required. I know you do help people. I've been a member of this community since 2003.

But proclaiming yourself to be a "lovable jerk" is a little beyond the pale. Being from New York doesn't give you the right to attack someone in this very thread for absolutely no reason. You claim it was in humor. I claim your are full of crap. I happen to be from New York myself and from where I sit it looks more like you just didn't expect someone to stand up to you, and now you are back tracking.

There were some epic battles on these boards in the old days between the original owners and surly community members. Frankly, what we have going here is a bit of a flash back. But I won't tolerate you poisoning the waters of this community. You can attack me. You can attack GarageGames employees, but you better watch your tone with other community members or we are going to have a big problem.

#29

Quote:reading multiple replies about "$99 being the problem solver" was making me crazy.

I said nothing of the sort. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

What I said was, if (note for the slow and obstinate - that word means I'm not assuming this to be the case) your concern is based on having to deal with a rapidly-churning work force, you'd be better off examining the root cause, to see if you can lower the churn rate. That would not only make it easier to deal with Torque licensing, it would also cut down on paperwork, licensing and training issues with other apps, etc. A Torque studio license would treat one particular symptom, but it wouldn't do anything to cure the underlying disease.

#30 (edited to be brief and not stir any other commotion )

can we stop this now ?
// if you have more to get off of your chest, then by all means..go ahead and do it. I don't mind it & it might make you feel better.

Sherman, I never said your name in that general statement. Yet somehow, I put words in your mouth ?


I'm going to avoid posting unless I am helping someone, bug reporting or in seek of help.
Please make an announcement or email me once the secure-licensing strategy/plan has been created.