We need a bug submission Button/Form website section -- not thread topics.
by Michael Hall · in Site Feedback · 04/12/2011 (2:59 pm) · 16 replies
After seeing a few posts that indicated that a "bug" would not be recognized unless/until it (the thread page) was "reformatted to match the official bug reporting standards", and that using the correct bug forum was preferred, I was almost prompted to vent some sarcasm on the subject - but constructive feedback and discussion is supposed to be better, right?
Most people aren't going to be bothered to go look up some obscure thread (even if stickied) to see how to post a bug. Despite all argument that it takes time to wade through forum entries looking for bug reports it's actually stupidly obvious when someone is posting a bug report regardless of how it's worded. Some negligible effort at comprehension may be needed, and I give the point that more information could be given at times, but the community in general is quick to suggest clarification in most cases.
So since a bug report can't be easily recognized as a bug until it gets posted in a certain preferred format, why not simply add a bug submission button that links to a pre-formatted form/template that we fill in with the needed information. This coupled with the proper tag entries (on the form) and forum categories (set up specifically for bugs because you have to admit the bug forum sub-categories as they currently exist are more than cumbersome to bother with) will help (automatically at that) keep all reports conformant to a certain standard, reduce the clutter of bug reports in the general area of the Engine forum, and wouldn't stress anyone's comprehension of whether or not a thread at random was a bug or simply someone seeking help.
EDIT:
I believe this would help automatic the process in a more fluid fashion than the implementation of the current standard rules enforcement is doing. If a bug report still fell through the cracks, after such a system was in place, and appeared as a regular thread submission then it could be flagged/bumped and evaluated as is currently done. And if the tags and sub-categories were setup right for such a system this would allow (sort of) the easier public tracking of bugs that many have clamored for.
Most people aren't going to be bothered to go look up some obscure thread (even if stickied) to see how to post a bug. Despite all argument that it takes time to wade through forum entries looking for bug reports it's actually stupidly obvious when someone is posting a bug report regardless of how it's worded. Some negligible effort at comprehension may be needed, and I give the point that more information could be given at times, but the community in general is quick to suggest clarification in most cases.
So since a bug report can't be easily recognized as a bug until it gets posted in a certain preferred format, why not simply add a bug submission button that links to a pre-formatted form/template that we fill in with the needed information. This coupled with the proper tag entries (on the form) and forum categories (set up specifically for bugs because you have to admit the bug forum sub-categories as they currently exist are more than cumbersome to bother with) will help (automatically at that) keep all reports conformant to a certain standard, reduce the clutter of bug reports in the general area of the Engine forum, and wouldn't stress anyone's comprehension of whether or not a thread at random was a bug or simply someone seeking help.
EDIT:
I believe this would help automatic the process in a more fluid fashion than the implementation of the current standard rules enforcement is doing. If a bug report still fell through the cracks, after such a system was in place, and appeared as a regular thread submission then it could be flagged/bumped and evaluated as is currently done. And if the tags and sub-categories were setup right for such a system this would allow (sort of) the easier public tracking of bugs that many have clamored for.
About the author
Been dabbling with game-programming since the age of 10 when I got my first computer, a Commodore. Got serious about game-development after modding Tribes for several years. Doesn't sleep much. Drinks rum. Teaches guitar. Plays cello.
#2
The one no-one has been told how to use even though it's been sat in that drop down menu for aeons?
:P
[edit]
I guess the issue there though would be 500 people reporting the same bug 'cos they can't see it already reported in the forums ...
04/12/2011 (3:08 pm)
Isn't there a "special bug report" under Support->Submit Bugs?The one no-one has been told how to use even though it's been sat in that drop down menu for aeons?
:P
[edit]
I guess the issue there though would be 500 people reporting the same bug 'cos they can't see it already reported in the forums ...
#3
If there were to be a "Submit Bug" button it should be as obvious as the "Start a Thread" button.
04/12/2011 (3:12 pm)
Hmm, wouldn't that have been the paid support system that was mentioned, overlooked, and talked around? ;)If there were to be a "Submit Bug" button it should be as obvious as the "Start a Thread" button.
#4
04/12/2011 (3:39 pm)
Hey, press it, it's a nice list of fields! Just the sort of thing you need for bug reporting! ;)
#5
04/12/2011 (3:52 pm)
Yeah it is. Almost exactly the sort of thing I had in mind. Now if that could be made to play nice with tags and forum categories... 
#7
04/12/2011 (5:03 pm)
Why not use something like http://www.mantisbt.org/ you can skin it so it matches GG. I have a copy of it up for my project and did a little testing how ever in the state of my project right now it is not being used. I have it set so the public can view but not summit. Best thing is that you can integrate it in to svn. Mine: http://bug.tandune.com/view_all_bug_page.php 
#8
If it's an honest attempt at reporting a bug and helping GG improve their product line, the poster deserves a response.
04/15/2011 (5:27 pm)
IMO, a bug report thread should never be ignored simply because it's not formatted correctly.If it's an honest attempt at reporting a bug and helping GG improve their product line, the poster deserves a response.
#9
04/15/2011 (11:00 pm)
@Sean - No one ignores a bug report thread because it isn't using the right format. However, when the thread is tagged correctly and uses the formatting, it helps us find it and log it faster. 
#10
@foribiteu
While I've never really completely removed the possibility of a separate bug database from the table, it more or less has been. Maintaining separate bug databases is giant headache and our attempts at it last year internally proved that more bugs slip through the cracks that way than any other method. The very first decision I made in regards to QA and infrastructure when we came back was to remove that separate database because of it.
04/16/2011 (6:40 pm)
I've been tossing some ideas around in my head on ways to improve the process in the future the past couple weeks. Much of them run along similar paths to Michael's suggestions.@foribiteu
While I've never really completely removed the possibility of a separate bug database from the table, it more or less has been. Maintaining separate bug databases is giant headache and our attempts at it last year internally proved that more bugs slip through the cracks that way than any other method. The very first decision I made in regards to QA and infrastructure when we came back was to remove that separate database because of it.
#11
I have been sandbagging quite a bit on the forums since I got Torque 3d and from what I see even know it is the wrong tool for the job it is working grate for you. Things are getting fixed, and a good re pore with the users. Keep up the grate work!
At least tell me your going to use monitoring software such as Nagios and Cacti? :D
From looking at your new office (from the pics you posted) I can also see that it is a lot less corporate than the places I am use to working. It would be a place I wold love to work at! I miss the days I could ware jeans to work. I can see someone playing ping pong at my work, it would be a instant pink slip LOL.
04/17/2011 (12:28 pm)
Well as they say... if it works don't change it. At work we started using sales force for everything. Where it is good for somethings in IT it bites. I have all ways had good luck with tick/bug trackers however with all things they need to be setup right and managed.I have been sandbagging quite a bit on the forums since I got Torque 3d and from what I see even know it is the wrong tool for the job it is working grate for you. Things are getting fixed, and a good re pore with the users. Keep up the grate work!
At least tell me your going to use monitoring software such as Nagios and Cacti? :D
From looking at your new office (from the pics you posted) I can also see that it is a lot less corporate than the places I am use to working. It would be a place I wold love to work at! I miss the days I could ware jeans to work. I can see someone playing ping pong at my work, it would be a instant pink slip LOL.
#12
The arguments for and against in that thread were pretty much childish and petty... and yet strangely valid from either viewpoint ;)
If you expect and demand certain standards from your customers you could at least make it easier for us as well, and not just for yourselves -- mutual gain if you do. Besides it's not that difficult to add a pre-formatted form for bug submission...
11/01/2011 (9:59 am)
Shameless bump in light of recent drama and contention between intelligence/perception/comprehension skills, user opinion, and willingness to accept QA's desire for standardization versus end result of the bug reporting process. The arguments for and against in that thread were pretty much childish and petty... and yet strangely valid from either viewpoint ;)
If you expect and demand certain standards from your customers you could at least make it easier for us as well, and not just for yourselves -- mutual gain if you do. Besides it's not that difficult to add a pre-formatted form for bug submission...
#15
There are some changes I want to make to it to make it more relevant and easier to understand. I've seen several bugs submitted very that form where people have written that they didn't understand what the field was asking for. There's some backend stuff I want to make it do as well that I'm experimenting with right now and using support emails as a guinea pig. May even see if we can have it create threads on submit for discussion of the bug in the forums. All things that we've been kicking around ideas on since even before this thread was started, just a matter of having the time and resources to really dive into them and see how feasible they are.
11/07/2011 (6:21 pm)
Yes, that form has been there for many years, at least since the 2009 redesign but I think it was there even before that.There are some changes I want to make to it to make it more relevant and easier to understand. I've seen several bugs submitted very that form where people have written that they didn't understand what the field was asking for. There's some backend stuff I want to make it do as well that I'm experimenting with right now and using support emails as a guinea pig. May even see if we can have it create threads on submit for discussion of the bug in the forums. All things that we've been kicking around ideas on since even before this thread was started, just a matter of having the time and resources to really dive into them and see how feasible they are.
#16
11/07/2011 (7:45 pm)
Now if we could make it fix the bugs for us.... 
Employee Michael Perry
ZombieShortbus