T3D 1.1 Beta 3 - ChooseLevelDlg needs compliment in tools - LOGGED
by Jameson Bennett · in Torque 3D Professional · 04/03/2011 (5:21 pm) · 9 replies
When in toggleEditor (editor.ed.cs) and not in a Mission the ChooseLevelDlg is pushed to the canvas. This will obviously fail if one has modified or removed the ChooseLevelDlg for their own purposes. Not a show-stopper, but it couples the tools with the core directory in a way that prohibits customization/pruning of unused scripts.
There are a few other dialogs in core that are also used by the tools, like the messageboxes. My biggest concern is in a merge with a new release... I have avoided touching the tools scripts so far - would be excellent to never have to.
Understandably, this may seem a bit nit-picky, but otherwise throughout there is a good clean separation of the tools that I have really appreciated.
To fix, replicate these few guis and scripts within the tools directory so they do not depend on the core directory.
There are a few other dialogs in core that are also used by the tools, like the messageboxes. My biggest concern is in a merge with a new release... I have avoided touching the tools scripts so far - would be excellent to never have to.
Understandably, this may seem a bit nit-picky, but otherwise throughout there is a good clean separation of the tools that I have really appreciated.
To fix, replicate these few guis and scripts within the tools directory so they do not depend on the core directory.
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#2
04/03/2011 (9:22 pm)
Yeah, core really isn't what it should be and I think confuses a lot of people when they start out with the engine... just another level of indirection to get over. The concept is useful if you're building the next great moddable MMORPGFPS, but like you, I pretty much have gotten rid of/merged it with game code as it just makes it that much more of a PITA to deal with. 
#3
I'd add more but I fear I have nothing good to say.
04/03/2011 (10:56 pm)
I'm astonished with how well they make this package appear as if it's "attempting brain surgery while flying a rocket". (meaning it's not tough to make a proper package that is predictable and up-datable. Somehow they succeed in avoiding consistency from TGE TGEA and T3D. 10 years of the same core tech and we're still given hacked up scripts and test missions.)I'd add more but I fear I have nothing good to say.
#4
Im aware of observing how, well intended, yet halfhearted, incompletely implemented systems are incapable of self substantiation, as evidence to why no ONE implementation have yet to 'organize' this chaos, and many attempts have left behind evidence of failure. I think it would be difficult to establish any 'standard convention' what have a complete flexible and dynamic appeal.
What is more tiresome, is how flexible all the Torque standards have been over the years and across the platforms. I depend on operational standards as functional foundation to expand. Torque is dangerously close to being as chaotic as I will stand as far as expectations of what Torque is trying to be. This should be a more pressing exploration of GarageGames many future considerations, if they truly DO care about the community.
Consistency of system conventions, was something I attempted an appeal, back in ALPHA stage of T3D's long mostly-nonfunctional life...
04/04/2011 (2:37 am)
It require a more comprehensive, then passive, understanding of evolution theories to explain why even after 10 years, the condition is not improved.Im aware of observing how, well intended, yet halfhearted, incompletely implemented systems are incapable of self substantiation, as evidence to why no ONE implementation have yet to 'organize' this chaos, and many attempts have left behind evidence of failure. I think it would be difficult to establish any 'standard convention' what have a complete flexible and dynamic appeal.
What is more tiresome, is how flexible all the Torque standards have been over the years and across the platforms. I depend on operational standards as functional foundation to expand. Torque is dangerously close to being as chaotic as I will stand as far as expectations of what Torque is trying to be. This should be a more pressing exploration of GarageGames many future considerations, if they truly DO care about the community.
Consistency of system conventions, was something I attempted an appeal, back in ALPHA stage of T3D's long mostly-nonfunctional life...
#5
My intention with this report is to give some feedback to help GG tie a pretty bow on this.
Michael is correct - if one can compeletely remove core and scripts and still fire up the app to edit a mission ie, T3D.exe -tools , mission accomplished (like for reals, not in a standing on an aircraft carrier kind of way).
04/04/2011 (7:57 am)
What would be best is a complete de-coupling of the tools from any game based logic... this is obviously the intention and great strides have been made to make this happen, and it is FAR better than it used to be. My intention with this report is to give some feedback to help GG tie a pretty bow on this.
Michael is correct - if one can compeletely remove core and scripts and still fire up the app to edit a mission ie, T3D.exe -tools , mission accomplished (like for reals, not in a standing on an aircraft carrier kind of way).
#6
My post do seem a bit nieve and inconsistent with what T3D is growing up to be, and the overtone really do stink... It is the little things one seem to over amplify in detail, because little things built up on each other, they are insidiously sticky, in a frustratingly furious sorta way... And I always get wordy around 'consistency' and 'system conventions'. Also, I invariantly forget how much less GG forums are open to collegiate collaboration, like all the other flowers I flutter during my shrinking free time.
Thanks James for that subconscious(?) reminder to be more vigilant and mindful. (Im aware of and open to the possibility that my opinionated post may/maynot have any weight to your re-clarification of subject intention.)
Im also aware of the lack of a GG response in similar pattern repetition from your other posts around the same time. Im the type of person who sees that as a linguistic expression and proceed to voice my opinion.
EDIT: for the hopeful declearification of my insanity..HAR!
04/04/2011 (12:37 pm)
Hmm, yes intention, as in motivation for action in the first part. My post do seem a bit nieve and inconsistent with what T3D is growing up to be, and the overtone really do stink... It is the little things one seem to over amplify in detail, because little things built up on each other, they are insidiously sticky, in a frustratingly furious sorta way... And I always get wordy around 'consistency' and 'system conventions'. Also, I invariantly forget how much less GG forums are open to collegiate collaboration, like all the other flowers I flutter during my shrinking free time.
Thanks James for that subconscious(?) reminder to be more vigilant and mindful. (Im aware of and open to the possibility that my opinionated post may/maynot have any weight to your re-clarification of subject intention.)
Im also aware of the lack of a GG response in similar pattern repetition from your other posts around the same time. Im the type of person who sees that as a linguistic expression and proceed to voice my opinion.
EDIT: for the hopeful declearification of my insanity..HAR!
#7
I always enjoy your posts - there is a poetry in them... and the frustration you feel is shared in many ways.
04/04/2011 (1:32 pm)
@Caylo:I always enjoy your posts - there is a poetry in them... and the frustration you feel is shared in many ways.
#8
But my consideration is fellow GG members, who perhaps dont find it a fun game to decipherer my unique linguistic expressions,stopping to lookup my archaic word usage... I understand; Once I considered, how difficult it must be for normal people now days. My solution is to simply be more thoughtful before posting to garagegames. By the end of this month I hope to fully take advantage of T3D, and thats when ill return to ambiguously normal.
04/05/2011 (5:57 am)
Thanks Jameson, that is considerate. Especially reassuring that you can term it as 'a poetry / in them', an good indicator you consider more depth then what appears to be simply, on the surface.But my consideration is fellow GG members, who perhaps dont find it a fun game to decipherer my unique linguistic expressions,stopping to lookup my archaic word usage... I understand; Once I considered, how difficult it must be for normal people now days. My solution is to simply be more thoughtful before posting to garagegames. By the end of this month I hope to fully take advantage of T3D, and thats when ill return to ambiguously normal.
#9
04/06/2011 (3:00 pm)
Logged as THREED-1558 for a feature request. 
Associate Michael Hall
Distracted...
There is stuff in the core that should technically be game specific as well. Over time I think that things were just being dumped into the core just because it made it easy to update multiple projects at once.
With the advent of the project generator we don't even really need the "core" anyway. Just separate it out (the common useful scripts in core) into a new Template and use that for a start. That is how I've set mine up. The tools package should really be nothing more than a mod of the game anyway.