iTorque 2D 1.4.1 And Beyond
by Michael Perry · in iTorque 2D · 11/12/2010 (2:50 pm) · 96 replies
Greetings everyone,
No doubt you have seen the news. InstantAction is winding down operations and all the employees have been sent home. Torque's future is uncertain right now. It all comes down to finding an investor or new owner. You are probably wondering what that means for your current technology and license.
I can speak directly for iTorque 2D since I've been managing it for a while. We have been putting in effort into the 1.4.1 build, trying not to rush things. We were setting our own expectations pretty high for polish and stability. We would eradicate five bugs, then find two more. A release could not go out with those two bugs, so the cycle would reset. You all have been invaluable in this process, as your feedback has driven this product for a while now.
They have already confiscated my Apple hardware, which means I cannot do any testing unless I find someone with the hardware locally. I might be able to post fixes blindly, in the hopes I can get quick feedback from everyone.
It's not all bad news, though. Before I was locked out of e-mail and our internal SVN repository, I managed to pull down 1.4.1 on my home machine. I have also talked to Sven at Luma, who has a slew of amazing bug fixes and new features to add to the build. What we are going to do is try and get one more build up into your accounts, giving you a safe download link to obtain the software. 1.4.1 would be under the EULA, so that would also extend your usage.
If it is not possible to get it into your accounts, which there is a chance of happening, then I will formulate a plan B with Sven and Eric. The fat lady has not completely sung for Torque, but I'm thinking short term for my plans.
After 1.4.1? Well, I do not know my friends. We will see what happens to Torque first. I may move completely in a new direction. Without Apple hardware, I do not think I would be of any use to you anymore. I guess we'll see.
On a completely separate subject, our IRC channel is still running:
server: irc.maxgaming.net
channel: garagegames
If you want more info on iTorque, including behind the scenes stuff, I will be there.
No doubt you have seen the news. InstantAction is winding down operations and all the employees have been sent home. Torque's future is uncertain right now. It all comes down to finding an investor or new owner. You are probably wondering what that means for your current technology and license.
I can speak directly for iTorque 2D since I've been managing it for a while. We have been putting in effort into the 1.4.1 build, trying not to rush things. We were setting our own expectations pretty high for polish and stability. We would eradicate five bugs, then find two more. A release could not go out with those two bugs, so the cycle would reset. You all have been invaluable in this process, as your feedback has driven this product for a while now.
They have already confiscated my Apple hardware, which means I cannot do any testing unless I find someone with the hardware locally. I might be able to post fixes blindly, in the hopes I can get quick feedback from everyone.
It's not all bad news, though. Before I was locked out of e-mail and our internal SVN repository, I managed to pull down 1.4.1 on my home machine. I have also talked to Sven at Luma, who has a slew of amazing bug fixes and new features to add to the build. What we are going to do is try and get one more build up into your accounts, giving you a safe download link to obtain the software. 1.4.1 would be under the EULA, so that would also extend your usage.
If it is not possible to get it into your accounts, which there is a chance of happening, then I will formulate a plan B with Sven and Eric. The fat lady has not completely sung for Torque, but I'm thinking short term for my plans.
After 1.4.1? Well, I do not know my friends. We will see what happens to Torque first. I may move completely in a new direction. Without Apple hardware, I do not think I would be of any use to you anymore. I guess we'll see.
On a completely separate subject, our IRC channel is still running:
server: irc.maxgaming.net
channel: garagegames
If you want more info on iTorque, including behind the scenes stuff, I will be there.
About the author
Programmer.
#82
02/11/2011 (1:23 pm)
@Michael, what's stopping the testing on the Xcode4 preview? If that works then I think we are good to go and can release. Also, most sensible developers will NOT change to Xcode4 mid-development.
#83
02/11/2011 (1:32 pm)
Quote:what's stopping the testing on the Xcode4 preview?Already working on that, but I want to see what is actually put out in the release before we say "official". If anything, Apple has made me paranoid to the point of madness. We still have to go through another full QA pass, but we can start moving ahead on plans of releasing a "preview" of iTorque 2D 1.4.1
Quote:Also, most sensible developers will NOT change to Xcode4 mid-development.Gotta test for lowest common denominator.
#84
Most software development teams now have a very agile approach to software development and this works on the premise that you release often - this puts the software into the hands of your testers and allows them to rapidly find problems and feed back. You fix the critical stuff and release again - normally within three weeks - you repeat this cycle until all bugs have been shaken out or you have a release which stands up. I think Torque should adopt this approach:
- have a stable release - this is for first timers
- have an agile release - let us download and get stuck into this
I know GG has had some commercial problems and been through some changes but I've never known something take so long for what is basically a point release ... this should have been out ages ago and now we seem to be procrastinating about some potential issue with Xcode - Apple could release iPad2 next week - do we start over again with the QA cycle?
Developers typically love to get their hands on bleeding edge - ultimately they will find far more bugs than your QA team - 1.4 is a testament to this. However, developers absolutely hate the long lead times for fixes - this is why open source is so popular - find the bug and get it fixed for the next nightly. Now I'm not advocating nightly builds but GG seriously need to inject a more agile methodology into their software development. Evan tutorials / documents etc can be released on a 3/4 weekly basis.
My advise: get 1.4.1 out now - we will find stuff that doesn't work - get the bugs raised, triaged and fixed and get 1.4.2 out in FOUR weeks time. Rinse and repeat.
02/11/2011 (2:03 pm)
OKay, I work in software development day in day out on large scale commercial projects - writing games is just a bit of a hobby. I've developed software for 30 years and have seen what works, what doesn't.Most software development teams now have a very agile approach to software development and this works on the premise that you release often - this puts the software into the hands of your testers and allows them to rapidly find problems and feed back. You fix the critical stuff and release again - normally within three weeks - you repeat this cycle until all bugs have been shaken out or you have a release which stands up. I think Torque should adopt this approach:
- have a stable release - this is for first timers
- have an agile release - let us download and get stuck into this
I know GG has had some commercial problems and been through some changes but I've never known something take so long for what is basically a point release ... this should have been out ages ago and now we seem to be procrastinating about some potential issue with Xcode - Apple could release iPad2 next week - do we start over again with the QA cycle?
Developers typically love to get their hands on bleeding edge - ultimately they will find far more bugs than your QA team - 1.4 is a testament to this. However, developers absolutely hate the long lead times for fixes - this is why open source is so popular - find the bug and get it fixed for the next nightly. Now I'm not advocating nightly builds but GG seriously need to inject a more agile methodology into their software development. Evan tutorials / documents etc can be released on a 3/4 weekly basis.
My advise: get 1.4.1 out now - we will find stuff that doesn't work - get the bugs raised, triaged and fixed and get 1.4.2 out in FOUR weeks time. Rinse and repeat.
#85
02/11/2011 (2:09 pm)
I do agree with Scott's post... a lot ;)
#86
1.4 went out -> iT3D work started -> couldn't get anyone to work on iT2D at same time as iT3D -> company shut down -> unemployed -> bought out -> company spin up time -> hiring process etc etc etc
I do think 1.4.1 should have gone out a while ago. However, it was resource constrained and the GG world changed overnight. Nothing I can do about that. What is in my hands now is to make sure anything I put out publicly is usable. I'm not saying I'm going to hold on to it until ever little thing is polished and 100% future proofed. USABLE
02/11/2011 (2:44 pm)
Quote:but I've never known something take so long for what is basically a point release ... this should have been out ages ago and now we seem to be procrastinating about some potential issue with XcodYeah, should have been out ages ago. As far as why it took so long:
1.4 went out -> iT3D work started -> couldn't get anyone to work on iT2D at same time as iT3D -> company shut down -> unemployed -> bought out -> company spin up time -> hiring process etc etc etc
I do think 1.4.1 should have gone out a while ago. However, it was resource constrained and the GG world changed overnight. Nothing I can do about that. What is in my hands now is to make sure anything I put out publicly is usable. I'm not saying I'm going to hold on to it until ever little thing is polished and 100% future proofed. USABLE
Quote:My advice: get 1.4.1 out now - we will find stuff that doesn't work - get the bugs raised, triaged and fixed and get 1.4.2 out in FOUR weeks time.Trying to...really am. QA was supposed to get the build on Tuesday, preview build to community in 48 hours. Couldn't get the installers to work, so we are a day behind in that. No point in releasing it until the issues I said would be fixed are actually fixed. I'm creating the new installers to release right now. Everyone is getting something in their hands while we go through full QA, I already stated that.
#87
If it was me running the release cycle I'd be doing something like this:
1.4.2 : Universal app
1.4.3 ; Game Center
1.4.4 : Retina Support
1.4.5 : In-app purchase
1.4.6 : gyroscope
etc etc
People want to see road map and get a good feeling about what's coming down the pipe ...
Also, how's about a bit of community social, every month feature five iPhone Torque apps on the main iPhone section - this will give prospective customers something to take a look at and also is a bit of payback for the community?
02/11/2011 (2:56 pm)
Michael, we appreciate the effort that has gone on through the turmoil of the recent changes. I don't think we can do much for 1.4.1. but please can we at least start to get "early" cuts of 1.4.2 in the next month or so - I really think it will "lift" the spirits of the iTorque community and people will be more inclined to submit bug fixes / changes etc ... for example, Dean Parker has some great resources for building universal apps, handling rotation, we've had developers post Game Center resources etc.If it was me running the release cycle I'd be doing something like this:
1.4.2 : Universal app
1.4.3 ; Game Center
1.4.4 : Retina Support
1.4.5 : In-app purchase
1.4.6 : gyroscope
etc etc
People want to see road map and get a good feeling about what's coming down the pipe ...
Also, how's about a bit of community social, every month feature five iPhone Torque apps on the main iPhone section - this will give prospective customers something to take a look at and also is a bit of payback for the community?
#88
We are currently in a hiring phase, so how many engineers we get with iPhone experience will dictate how quickly we get releases out and what they will cover. I don't have a road map until I know what can actually be done realistically. I hear what you are saying, though, and do not disagree.
02/11/2011 (3:01 pm)
Quote:People want to see road map and get a good feeling about what's coming down the pipe ...Totally get that. I was asked a few weeks ago to write up a proposal for iTorque 2D for 2011. This included current version (1.4), next version (1.4.1), future versions, new tutorials, etc. I had to put estimates on everything and get very detailed. This is to set up how much work is to be done, how much man power we need and how long it will take.
We are currently in a hiring phase, so how many engineers we get with iPhone experience will dictate how quickly we get releases out and what they will cover. I don't have a road map until I know what can actually be done realistically. I hear what you are saying, though, and do not disagree.
Quote:Also, how's about a bit of community social, every month feature five iPhone Torque apps on the main iPhone section - this will give prospective customers something to take a look at and also is a bit of payback for the community?I like that a lot. I think the web design team is working on something similar, I'm just not currently involved in that.
#89
I strongly believe there is a really good community within the iTorque forums - as a product it would be long dead if that wasn't the case - you need to harness this stuff and get it into the product in a timely fashion, we seriously can't wait 12 months for 1.4.2. What about reaching out to the guy who got chipmunk physics working ?
Ultimately we all want the same thing - a best in class game engine for the iPhone. Unfortunately at the moment I look around and just see iTorque being left in the dust and so much potential being wasted.
02/11/2011 (3:24 pm)
It's good that GG are think along the same lines ... the first four of those items on my list are already available in the forums - you don't need to hire any more iPhone engineers to achieve those goals - it's not the agile approach and you'll just get people get hacked off about the time scales - too much detail will kill you - you have to go with the heart and take a leap of faith, pick a feature and nail it, and then move onto the next.I strongly believe there is a really good community within the iTorque forums - as a product it would be long dead if that wasn't the case - you need to harness this stuff and get it into the product in a timely fashion, we seriously can't wait 12 months for 1.4.2. What about reaching out to the guy who got chipmunk physics working ?
Ultimately we all want the same thing - a best in class game engine for the iPhone. Unfortunately at the moment I look around and just see iTorque being left in the dust and so much potential being wasted.
#90
How about the web design team come on this forum and discuss it, tell us what they're doing, when they could implement it?
02/11/2011 (3:27 pm)
Quote:I like that a lot. I think the web design team is working on something similar, I'm just not currently involved in that.
How about the web design team come on this forum and discuss it, tell us what they're doing, when they could implement it?
#91
02/11/2011 (4:09 pm)
Either they work or they post in the forums. Right now we need them working. 
#92
02/11/2011 (4:20 pm)
I suggest fixing all the known issues and release, then prepare for Xcode 4 testing. Release that as 1.4.2 *if* any changes are required. So far it seems very different from Xcode 3 only in appearance. Needs further testing over the weekend, but I have a feeling it's not going to be so bad. Getting to know the new interface will take some time, but Apple got some very nice new docs. 
#93
I think that is a given, we have more different setups, different things we are going to do first etc. I'd say from reading the forums since release of 1.4 we are your best testers.
02/11/2011 (4:35 pm)
Quote:Developers typically love to get their hands on bleeding edge - ultimately they will find far more bugs than your QA team
I think that is a given, we have more different setups, different things we are going to do first etc. I'd say from reading the forums since release of 1.4 we are your best testers.
#94
02/11/2011 (4:43 pm)
Quote:I'd say from reading the forums since release of 1.4 we are your best testers.I agree, which is why I hand picked 4 people from the community to receive builds before a full public release of the preview. I was waiting on their feedback before I hit the big red "GO" button on giving everyone access to the preview build. I got that feedback and I'm now waiting on the upload server. Sooo slow.
#95
03/15/2011 (7:55 am)
We start our final QA pass today. A QA pass typically lasts 5-6 days. I'm not expecting anymore surprises. We were able to find a few more critical bugs, like iPad support being busted, editor crashes and work flow, 4.3 compiler errors and so on. This is the homestretch. 
Employee Michael Perry
ZombieShortbus
There is one orange flag in the air, though. I just received a tip that Xcode 4 is in gold status. This means it can be released as early as this Tuesday. It's good that we are not releasing the final version of 1.4.1 before then, as we saw what happened when we release an engine without testing fully on the new Apple tools. So a final release will not go out next week, just in case we have to change a lot to accommodate Xcode 4.