State of the Scrum League! Leaguers post!

#1 What is the password for the scrum leage






RobVanDam

#2 Seems like a few of the peeps from the original league are not showing at all. Maybe we should fill out the ranks with some new players.

Sorry TGS but my comp is still in da garage. Hopefully I'll be back this week.

Az
-from a library somewhere.grrrrrrrrrr

#3 Here is my genneral abstractation of the expansion and advanced implementation of the Think Tanks scrum league, I call it "The Charter of Spony", this is ofcourse to serve my own self enfactuation and vanity.

First off, Captains - Each team NEEDS to have a figure head. Someone who is responsible for that entiety, and will have the power to control it's composition of players, that is the team roster. The purpose of this individual will be to ensure that the teams players are indeed active and do show for the games. Simply to avoid the impedance and difuse nature of the league players in genneral, who have no distinct interest in the opposing teams well-being aside from a good game. This also means that non-team "stand in's" are illeagle. This is because they destroy the entire purpose of forming such a league. The victory sensation of a team winning a game is negated by such stand in's.

Game Composition - The physical limmit of the number of players in a Think Tanks game is 10, this means 5 per team. However setting such subtle asthetics aside it is much more practical to have 4 players per team such that captains can control their teams composition in game, simply because the players of that team will be able to wait as stand in's in game. One succefull rule of the past has been the two games in succesion forming that battle's outcome. This is because it allows for some element of suprise in the game and genneraly allows the better team to win. Also the games are played on two maps futher eleminating any randomly prefered terms by one of team. Aside from those reasons it is also a corner stone in the next agenda.

Team Composition - Teams should be composed of 6 players, 4 regulars and 2 irregulars. It is expected that regulars in the league are exactly that! This means they are genneraly expected to show for games and at least every second game. The normal rotation of regulars/irregulars should be as such: regulars sit out one game of evey second battle, that is they play 3 out of 4 games or 1.5 out of every 2 battles. This allows for irregulars to also get some gaming time. Both irregulars will thus play in every battle, the first of the two in the first game of the battle and the second thereafter. Example:

Battle 6 Saturday 8/17/03 4:00 pm

Team Green composed of
regulars: sam, jim, brian, jane
irregulars: pete, claus

Game 1 played by: sam, jim, brian, pete
Game 2 played by: jim, brian, jane, claus

In Battle 7 next week brian and jim would then each have to sit out a 1 game of the battle and play the other. This composition is very important because it means both regulars and irregulars will have a sence of being on that team because they are expected to play in every battle. Needless to say this composition of players in a team is also aimed at fullfilling the expected 4 players a team per battle in that there is a certain allowance towards no show's. Team Captains should however be aware of such. Teams ARE expected to follow this because needless to say irregulars will often be of less value then regulars thus it is unfair to the other teams if irregulars are not used.

Team Ranks - The regulars on a team will have such a rank simply because they were there first. The only way a regular can become an irregular or get booted off the team is if they stop showing at battles. This will be the decission of the captain. If such an event occurs an irregular will move up to the status of regular on that team and a new player will be recuited if the past regular was booted otherwise they will shift status. Team Captains are such as long as they in turn abide by the same rules by showing for games. However more is ofcourse expected of team captains and they should genneraly spend time organising their teams.

#4 Well that is my proposal to the future of the league. Also I think there should be more teams, perhaps as many as thare are willing players. I think we should keep the teams as are today but boot all the frequent no show's and fill up the teams with new applicants. Perhaps a draft should be instituded somhow with rounds, however i am very unfamiliar with most of these new players. Hope everyone genneraly agree's with me - spony

#5 Thanks for feedback Spony.
I entirely suppost captain concept.
2pm - 4pm saturday game basically a good but unpractical concept. Today I was the ony one showing up, and spony 20 minutes later. Tankster boasting we lost the first game cause we weren't there. Wow! Great victory! great competition! I played with a sub (Rob) who did some nice cliff diving. I was so upset - what a waste of time.

Just walked out of the 4pm game disgusted. Someone infiltrated the game (Rob something) and f***** up big time.
He gave the PW to others. SA army whatever. League PW must be renewed.

So yeah Captains big time, and captains set up game time.

#6 Well what a disaster tonight for the old league. For the Smiling Boots, Shoseph, Tally, Tankster and Myself all showed, and whilst (for the opposition) Spony's tank sat on the field, he was sadly absent. Hugo showed up late and a small game of 2 on 2 was attempted, but Ghost TT and RobVanDam couldnt decide between them who was subbing with Hugo, and for a while it was 3 on 2 even though 4 of our team initially turned up. Final score leg 1. 23-3 to TSB.

The second Leg was no better. RobVanDam refused to leave the game and persiosted to get in the way, only to then leave and come back with friends to completely destroy what was left of the game.

As for the password Travis. That no longer concerns you. I think after tonight, you are out of any kind of league for good.

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What should be done to the league?

I fully agree that teams should organise themselves (once an approved regular-players split has been decided) Each team should have a couple of subs. I also think 4 is the optimum number per team in-game.

Also, if there are more teams, (say 6) then games two games can be played each week (as now) and will give each team one week out every three.

It will require that someone (and I think TD has volunteered) to maintain a fairly up-to-date website showing scores and fixtures etc.

There should be no bystanders or players from other teams present at the designated match time (apart from perhaps one designated score tracker) who can simly kill himself and not respawn. Non-team substitions must be a thing of the past.

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On a side note, the ruin of tonights game by disrespectful and obnoxious idiots is yet further reducing my enjoyment of this game and community. I sincerely hope this does not persist for otherwise I shall very rarely bother playing.

-Z-

#7 Well sorry guys that i wasn't more aware of what was going on behind my post. I had a lot on my mind and at the time the game started I had accidentaly erased it twice so I was frustraighted and anxious to get it up on the boards. In any case it is rather clear that the league needs a huge revamp and as such I think the scoreboard might as well be wiped clean, however as I said I think the reg's of those teams already formed should stay where they are.

Another point I agree with that hugo makes is that captains should decide amongst each other when that respective game will be played in an aloted time frame of say a weekend. I doubt playing games during weekdays will be genneraly accpetable. However if they can't decide there should be some backup default time that they will thus be forced to play at. This should be decided amongst the two captains a couple weeks in advance.

On another note as z mentions we definitly need a devoted league administrator that will spend the time each weekend to actualy update the side. Without fresh game scores and stats the league seems dead somehow and i seriously think it effects people's outlook towards devoting time and getting enfactuated in it. Frankly if i win a game I want to see the core up there somewhere. I definitly think Tank Dork is the man for the job if he indeed is interested.

#8 I've just read the posts to this thread and I think this is all a good step in the right direction. Many of my previous posts may have seemed a little caustic, but it was only because I wanted a better league with committed teams.

Obviously, we all want the same thing - ORGANIZATION. As stated before. I think Dork is best suited as Commissioner. I also believe we should have a senate consisting of those players who have consistently showed an eagerness to make this league something out of nothing. The Senate could then vote on league and rule changes and determine the status of ill-reputed dickheads who join out of malice.

I missed my first scrum league match today and I will miss more. But I like the community I've come to know through this game and I would hate to see something that is ultimately fun for all us simply disappear because we didn't take care of a few simple steps.

jangles

"MISS YA AZ!!!"

#9 We almost need a bidding system to organise the games. saturdays don't always work. A team needs to set a time, with four confirmed players. Then whichever teams bids in first with four confirmed players gets scheduled/plays. Do each bid by individual, so a team captain doesn't think he has 4, he knows. four people on his team log in and bid for that game individually, saying specifically, 'yes I will be there'.

Tom

#10 Example:

maybe post a thread on the forum, saying Ghost Squadron: Monday 3:00 PST; Who can play?

Then make sure four GS reply, and whichever team gets four posted replies in first plays. Send out password to those involved only.

If we get a good enough response, perhaps use a different forum from this, as to not clutter this one.

Tom

Edit:
I think this would get the best involvement, and maybe increase the number of teams/players. Also, I think six per team would be better.

This may get some very irregularly scheduled games, but if we limit to one or two per team a week it wouldn't turn into one team with a lot of availability getting a lot of games versus everyone else. Two games per week might also filter out what teams want to play a lot and a little.

'Course, we only have four teams (if that!) right now, so that last paragraph really doesn't apply yet, I think.

Tom

#11 *bump*

#12 I agree with the need for team captain.. it is alot easier to divy up the responsibility than to carry the whole load.

but What is the criteria for Captain? How do we decide.. what if there is a player conflict?
1. Do we just start over with 4-6+ old school league players and tell them "poof" you need to start a team?
2. Do we have the current teams decide (if they can) who will be their captain.. then have new teams created using method #1?

I agree that Saturday games don't work for everyone..

but When is the "best" time when you are involving players from around the world and adults/teens/children with real world responsibilities?
1. Do we use a bidding system.. which is a good idea but requires ALOT of communication which we don't have.
2. Do we use a standard time.. like we use now and no one shows.
3. Do we throw out a hand full of times and select the ones that the "majority" of players can make?

I agree that substitutes ruin the feel of "teamwork"...

but How much fun is a 3 on 2 or 4 on 1 game.. not very.
But if Captain were working correctly.. this will only happen once in a while or they will be recruiting new players and kicking old.

How do we select new players... will the Captain be responsible for recruiting?

Anyone have any solutions to these problems?
Keep the advice coming.. this is the only communication we have!

Tank Dork

#13 I was just thinking regaurding the security of our games from malicious fools. I'm unaware of the complexity of changing the server password but if it something that can be done on the fly then I think each battle should have a new password that is mailed out to the captains of both teams and noone else.

What this league will require is a league comissioner willing to:

A) Corospond with the team captains a couple weeks in advance to set up battle times 2 weeks down the line. This should become rather automatic and after a while I doubt the commissioners involvment will be nessisary as the team captains will figure it out between themselves and both send an email stating the same battle time agreement.

B) Decide on a new random password and send it out to the two team captains. They in turn will be responsible for further sending it to their players. This password will have to be set before each game i suppose. If the commisioner doesn't have time for this before each battle he will have to have some involved and trusted helpers.

C) Recieve scores and update the scoreboard (important!)

This should cut down malicious invasion of the battle's to a minimum and if it continues the individual filtering out the password will quikly be spottet.

#14 Just read your post Tank Dork.

Regarding who is captain. I really don't see how this could be a huge problem. Frankly almost each team has a player that stands out and is more involved then the rest, which is exactly what a captain should be. But ofcourse there will be exceptions, where 2 players are eqauly captain worthy or none of the teams players are interested in such a position. These teams will just have to settle it with a vote or draw straws or something. Frankly if that team can not come up with a responsible captain it should get booted out of the league. But as i said i doubt this is a huge problem. Personaly i nominate hugo to be ours.

Regarding the new teams. Yes i think we should keep the teams as is for those players who have consistently showed up or at least showed involvment on the boards. But I haven't seen the list of applicants and am totaly unfamiliar with these people as such. What we could do is have a draft session on these board. The league comissioner would post all the names and team captains would in turn pick who they are interested in. Perhaps the leeague comissioner could send out mails to all the applicants to show up to trial games where the captains could see who's of interest. In any case we need to get these teams up to 6 players. Frankly I think my 4 regular / 2 irregular system would be great. It allows everyone on a team to play in each battle but at the same time 2 people to miss the battle. Coupled together with dynamic times chosen by the captains i think we can get uneven teams down to a minimum without having non-team stand in's which is probably the worst concept we came up with for the old league.

Regarding choosing times.....this will mostly be up to the two team captains and as i said in my earliest post if they can't agree the commisioner will just have to post a default time. Again all this requires is a mail coraspondance between the two team captains and a little with the comissioner. All players emails should be redialy accesible on the website. Especialy that of the team captains and the comissioner and ofcourse all the team captains should have their team players emails and vice versa.

I really think this could work, we just need these few involved individuals.

#15 I do feel that all this will go alot smoother if we impliment Captains right away and go from there.


Ok.. so for team Captains.. we currently have...


Ghost Squadron = Tank Dork (nominated/seconded/accepted in yesterdays match)

The Highlanders = ???

The Ground Stompers = Hugobrain with one nomination... missing a second and his acceptance.

The Smiling Bots = ???

Please feel free to refer to my
current league teams page.

Once Captains have been decided each team can decide to keep their current name of make a new.

"baby steps"
Tank Dork

#16 Go highlanders








wheee....ahhhhh....bump

#17 "but What is the criteria for Captain? How do we decide.. what if there is a player conflict?"

I say either leave the teams as is and let each team choose a captain (shouldnt be difficult) or find 6 good players and willing captains and let them take it in turns to pick their teams from the list of league players. The first option would mean the creation of a new team or two (if there is a large list of players interested in joining the league)

I think each team also needs a vice captain for those occasions when the captain is forced to miss a match or is away for some reason.

As for The Smilling Boots, "Tally Ho for president"

"but When is the "best" time when you are involving players from around the world and adults/teens/children with real world responsibilities?"

Tough one and I think you would need to gather the data on the various team members to find out what timezone everyone is in. Personally (and from the UK) Im happy with matches being between 2pm and 6pm PDT (ish) as this equates to between 10pm and 2am GMT

"but How much fun is a 3 on 2 or 4 on 1 game.. not very."

indeed, but using non-team substitues doesnt solve this, and just causes extra people to be floating around on the league server. To not get 4 of your players to turn up at the right time, should result in a large score forfeit. Bear in mind also, that players who persistently don't show would no doubt quickly lose their team-status anyway.

-Z-

#18 Forfeits indeed, but i also think there's something to this scoring ratio idea that TD has come up with. Maybe it's just because i'm bitter about yesterday, and i took off before the true shenanigans really began (Skateboarders!). Anyway, why not carry over the point ration to the teams themselves, meaning scored for/against, so that when a team is short and they play and get racked on, their ratio hits the skids and they are exposed in some meaningful-to-the-standings true suckage sort of fashion. Maybe we can use that stat as a tie-breaker for some future playoff-pickle scenario if there is a dispute about something.

Personally, i think the leage needs yee ol' 3 finger salute. we need to gather names of everyone who is interested in playing, here in a thread, and then possibly let captains pick, or have a random system wherein captains are determined, and then the players are distributed randomly to each captain. i'd rather see the teams stay as they are as ours is starting to gel as jang is starting to get comfy in his sporty tactical cap, but i do not know about the rest of you.

something of a draft?

i dunno. i'd like to hear what you guys think.

OOOO.

We HAVE to change the names of the teams. the similarities in names are ridiculous. the initials especially. Mb captains can pick with the team and post updates here.

For the love, where is loler?

No team Subs.

With the arrival of what we can call the shockwave pud, it seems we need a rotating p/w. Caps should gather up email addys and distribute them oot once t.d. does the same. is that easy to handle as he doesn't have such tight control over the server? mb once every two weeks, and the person who spills the p.w gets beaten with a sock full of nickels.

Hang tight Z.

Spo is thinking "why didn't he just copy/paste my post?" :)

apologies for the reread.

lastly, i alway have this notion in my head about forced classes. 4 players? maybe someone should have to be a medium. when there were 5, i was thinking 2 meds and/or 1 heavy, but 4 changes the balance too much and would really slow the game down if 2 were slugs. maybe it's something to keep in mind for CTF.

8 is a good cap. should be 8 for ssolo too, another story.




Keep banging guys. we;ll get through this and get it going again. think positive, we had 2 really good weeks :).

#19 Didn't know Tank Dork was my captain, cause I, uh, ahem, missed the game (sorry!), but I didn't want the spot anyway.

The three issues we have are:
Captains - working itself out, I think. Maybe team size should be flexible depending on how a team participates.

schedule - I still think posting a challenge on the forum for each game would be the best, as it makes participation visible (for getting more teams), is a flexible schedule for the teams and is very clear. A set time every week is going to be very hard to maintain.

more players - I wasn't there for the uninvited guests, and I don't know how truly annoying they were, but did anyone offer/invite them to form another team? Kinda direct all that self destructive energy.

Tom

#20 I wanted to play and tried to get on the server but I never got a Password ; (_o