Overhead sprites in perspective?

#1 Hm. I've never tried adding 3-point perspective to a top-down game made with 2D art, but I would think that it would give weird results.

To begin, let's consider two-point perspective where vertical lines converge, in an extreme example. For two objects on opposite sides of the screen (let's say extreme right and extreme left), their vertical lines would need to converge at the same vanishing point in a V-shape towards a point somewhere in the lower part of the screen or, more likely, below the screen. But if you took those same objects and swapped them (moving them to the opposite side of the screen), their vertical lines would be pointing in completely wrong directions, which would look totally off. There wouldn't be a way to create 2D art that could be used universally across the screen and share the same vanishing point. A 3-point perspective would give you the same problem in two dimensions instead of just one. Let me know if that doesn't make sense and I'll sketch it out.

For this reason, I would think that a top-down game using 2D art would need to keep a relatively isometric projection, without converging perspective at all. I would think adding a tiny bit of perspective wouldn't look entirely weird, but the more you add, the more something will seem "off" about it in-game. Hope that helps.

#2 Thanks for the reply! I did not think about if the object was moved to another place it would look weird, but it make sense now. Do you have any suggestions on how to set up the drawings? I am thinking about making a master sheet where I have a isometric cube, a light source location for figuring out the cast shadow. I am thinking I am going to have a master sheet for buildings, rocks, trees ect... or is that excessive. Do you have any suggestions for the master sheets? When developing the adventure kit's art did you run into any problems? If so can you share them and any work around you had to make.

Is there any object that looks weird or should not be done in the isometric view?

Thanks
Don

#3 It sounds like you're off to a good start. The only thing I would have done differently when creating the sprites for the Adventure Kit if I had the time would be to create more interesting lighting. Everything was rendered with just one hard light from directly above. If I had it to do all over again, I would work in some 3-point lighting, just a little bit to give the sprites a little more dimensionality. Be careful not to move the shadow too far from the player or you could have some weird sorting when it moves on top of or behind another object. The easiest would be to have the shadow directly below the player, but I'm sure there is a little wiggle room to get something a little more interesting.

#4 Thanks for the feed back! What kind of sorting problem would I run into? I am having a hard time visualizing it.

Thanks
Don

#5 Consider the following examples created using the Adventure Kit assets. In order for top-down sprites in a 2D engine to sort properly so that one is in front of the other, you have to take into consideration the footprint of the sprites (example #1, pink)... or a line (example #1, green) in which the vertical position on screen translates into a sorting scheme. An object with a footprint higher on the screen should appear behind an object with a footprint lower on the screen. Examples #2 and #3 illustrate how this would work. For example #4, I've placed the shadow somewhat farther from the character, as if the light source is lower in the sky. The shadow now extends back, and onto the fence in an inaccurate way. No matter what your character runs in front of, the shadow will always have the same shape, and not follow the contours of that object. The shadow will look the same regardless of whether it is cast on the flat ground, round bush, or a vertical brick wall. This will be very obvious once the character starts running around. A top-down world in a 2D engine takes a bit of faking things to get it to look right, and keeping the shadow below the character just makes everything quite a bit easier.

#6 Thanks for the reply.

I think I get it now. I was wandering, in example 2 if the orc was walking toward the fence will you still have the weird sorting problems? The reason I ask is because it looks like the shadow will intersect the fence in the same way. This may not matter because he will be in front of his shadow and his shadow is not long enough to see past him.

Is it possible for you to show me what it would look if the orc was turned around facing the fence with his normal shadow?

I have a few ideas for some content that can be useful around here. The work flow, and quarks that you have suggested should prove useful in developing these ideas into working assets.

Thanks
Don

#7

Quote:Is it possible for you to show me what it would look if the orc was turned around facing the fence with his normal shadow?

Sure. Since the shadow is projected from directly above the character, it stays pretty close to his footprint. Close enough, at least. ;) There may be a few pixels of overlap, but nothing noticable:

#8 Thanks for the reply

So the same should be true for environmental sprites. In example 2 lets say instead of a fence it was a brick wall and the sun is low in the sky so the shadow is long and coming toward us. Now if the orc player crosses in front of the fence, the orc will be drawn after the wall gets drawn and the wall shadow will not affect the orc sprite and appear unnatural.

I am starting to think I should develop all of the sprites with the sun around noon to get a desirable in game result without the sorting issue. That is a nice tip. That will save me a few headaches down the road.

Thanks
Don