Material Editor Critical Problem
by Markus · in Torque 3D Professional · 08/09/2010 (1:55 am) · 8 replies
Hello there,
Some things are very off with Torque's Material Editor. This happens when I work with DAE files... I load a few textures on them, and after maybe 5 or 6 DAE files being used, and with materials applied, the material editor causes Torque to crash. Which is all fine and dandy... that's my lesson to use DTS instead. However... I'm stuck now, because the Material Editor will not even pull up the Material Selector anymore. It's like somehow, this crash totally rewrote the Material Editor's configuration in a way that makes it permanently unusable.
I figure, well what the hell... 1.1 is still in beta. So I revert back to T3D 1.0, and the EXACT same thing happens. 5 textured DAEs later, T3D crashes, and the material editor is broken again, same as before. I've tried loading other missions, but the editor does not change back to the time before it crashed. When I used T3D 1.0 this time, however, I got an error message from VC Express saying that it's a runtime error. When I loaded the level the next time, every single mesh had the SAME texture file. With the material editor broken, I can't even go back to change any of these materials without going through the materials.cs file and editing each of these by hand. And even then, there's no guarantee the editor will read it the same.
Another thing is whenever I load a new DAE into the engine and go to the material editor, it keeps assigning a new "newMaterial?" to it, even though a texture was assigned to that mesh already. It's like there's a memory leak in there somewhere. So for example, if I have grassTexture material already assigned to MeshX.dts, the next time I go to the Material Editor, I'll have newMaterial0 assigned to it, even though grassTexture material is currently being used. If I switch back to the Object Editor, and then back to the Material Editor, I'll have newMaterial1, and then newMaterial2, then 3, and so on and so forth.
This happens not just in 1.1 Beta2, but in T3D 1.0 as well.
I've read in the forums that DAE files are pretty expensive memory wise... and if that's the case then why not have the material editor convert the DAE file to the cached DTS, and then replace that with the DAE file automatically?
Some other issues with the material editor:
1) If you change a texture, it puts an asterisk in the tab, but if you switch from the material editor without saving the change, it reverts back to what it was before the change. It doesn't even ask you to confirm your changes, it just does it. It's rather cumbersome to remember all these little pipeline hiccups when you're concentrated on developing a level, spending hours of work on texture and mesh creation, and then Torque clears your changes without prompting you first. It gets disruptive and really frustrating.
2) Sky cubemaps. I have run into numerous crashes from the cubemap reflections in the Material Editor, both in 1.1 beta2 and in T3D 1.0. If I try to set a cubemap reflection for the skymap, the program crashes. It'll typically take two or three tries before the program actually implements the skymap like it's supposed to.
3) It would be handy to be able to rename the existing material profiles in the material selector...
4) After the above mentioned crash, I wasn't able to create new materials using the selector's "new material" button. It would append another "nomat" icon to the list, but the material wouldn't have a name. Upon selecting it, it would revert to the defaultRoad material.
I'm REALLY nervous about building any more levels with T3D, both 1.0 and 1.1 b2 because the material editor can completely annihilate a level you painstakingly spent a lot of time in by reducing those textures used to a single texture for the whole level! Even if you save early and often! I think this isn't just one critical bug but a series of them... I wouldn't even bother calling a t3d release a beta or a final until a lot of these issues with the material editor are fixed and stabilized. I can't have my levels disappearing like this...
Some things are very off with Torque's Material Editor. This happens when I work with DAE files... I load a few textures on them, and after maybe 5 or 6 DAE files being used, and with materials applied, the material editor causes Torque to crash. Which is all fine and dandy... that's my lesson to use DTS instead. However... I'm stuck now, because the Material Editor will not even pull up the Material Selector anymore. It's like somehow, this crash totally rewrote the Material Editor's configuration in a way that makes it permanently unusable.
I figure, well what the hell... 1.1 is still in beta. So I revert back to T3D 1.0, and the EXACT same thing happens. 5 textured DAEs later, T3D crashes, and the material editor is broken again, same as before. I've tried loading other missions, but the editor does not change back to the time before it crashed. When I used T3D 1.0 this time, however, I got an error message from VC Express saying that it's a runtime error. When I loaded the level the next time, every single mesh had the SAME texture file. With the material editor broken, I can't even go back to change any of these materials without going through the materials.cs file and editing each of these by hand. And even then, there's no guarantee the editor will read it the same.
Another thing is whenever I load a new DAE into the engine and go to the material editor, it keeps assigning a new "newMaterial?" to it, even though a texture was assigned to that mesh already. It's like there's a memory leak in there somewhere. So for example, if I have grassTexture material already assigned to MeshX.dts, the next time I go to the Material Editor, I'll have newMaterial0 assigned to it, even though grassTexture material is currently being used. If I switch back to the Object Editor, and then back to the Material Editor, I'll have newMaterial1, and then newMaterial2, then 3, and so on and so forth.
This happens not just in 1.1 Beta2, but in T3D 1.0 as well.
I've read in the forums that DAE files are pretty expensive memory wise... and if that's the case then why not have the material editor convert the DAE file to the cached DTS, and then replace that with the DAE file automatically?
Some other issues with the material editor:
1) If you change a texture, it puts an asterisk in the tab, but if you switch from the material editor without saving the change, it reverts back to what it was before the change. It doesn't even ask you to confirm your changes, it just does it. It's rather cumbersome to remember all these little pipeline hiccups when you're concentrated on developing a level, spending hours of work on texture and mesh creation, and then Torque clears your changes without prompting you first. It gets disruptive and really frustrating.
2) Sky cubemaps. I have run into numerous crashes from the cubemap reflections in the Material Editor, both in 1.1 beta2 and in T3D 1.0. If I try to set a cubemap reflection for the skymap, the program crashes. It'll typically take two or three tries before the program actually implements the skymap like it's supposed to.
3) It would be handy to be able to rename the existing material profiles in the material selector...
4) After the above mentioned crash, I wasn't able to create new materials using the selector's "new material" button. It would append another "nomat" icon to the list, but the material wouldn't have a name. Upon selecting it, it would revert to the defaultRoad material.
I'm REALLY nervous about building any more levels with T3D, both 1.0 and 1.1 b2 because the material editor can completely annihilate a level you painstakingly spent a lot of time in by reducing those textures used to a single texture for the whole level! Even if you save early and often! I think this isn't just one critical bug but a series of them... I wouldn't even bother calling a t3d release a beta or a final until a lot of these issues with the material editor are fixed and stabilized. I can't have my levels disappearing like this...
About the author
#2
I'd also suggest not tweaking any of the export settings with openCollada using those default settings as I've never gotten a bad export with them.
08/09/2010 (11:37 am)
I'd make sure you're using http://www.opencollada.org/ to export. Most of the default exporters (Read: all I've tried) with modeling tools tend to crash Torque in random and rather spectacular ways.I'd also suggest not tweaking any of the export settings with openCollada using those default settings as I've never gotten a bad export with them.
#3
I've occaissionally had the "vanishing" editor GUIs before (all of material editor properties, and ShapeEditor advanced properties) but never been able to work out what I did for them to vanish.
However I've always managed to get them back (probably by using the editors in another mission level), though again can't say for certain exactly what I did.
I just checked every mission in my 1.1b1 - which I know I've had these issues with - and all is good right now. So anything that did get bust in this way has since reverted ... I just can't say why ...
oh the joys of inconsistent bugs!
EDIT
I get a crash when I try to choose an image for a cubemap section in Material Editor too.
08/09/2010 (12:29 pm)
Quote:
I'm stuck now, because the Material Editor will not even pull up the Material Selector anymore.
I've occaissionally had the "vanishing" editor GUIs before (all of material editor properties, and ShapeEditor advanced properties) but never been able to work out what I did for them to vanish.
However I've always managed to get them back (probably by using the editors in another mission level), though again can't say for certain exactly what I did.
I just checked every mission in my 1.1b1 - which I know I've had these issues with - and all is good right now. So anything that did get bust in this way has since reverted ... I just can't say why ...
oh the joys of inconsistent bugs!
EDIT
I get a crash when I try to choose an image for a cubemap section in Material Editor too.
#4
I recall a warning when in fullscreen game mode trying to open the editor, probably there to keep such from happening. I got them back by switching back to windowed and restarting.
I've seen tons of quirky material behavior trying to use the material editor as well. I hope this editor gets a bit of loving soon :)
08/09/2010 (6:07 pm)
The only time I have 'lost' those editor windows was when I had switched to fullscreen while in the editor.I recall a warning when in fullscreen game mode trying to open the editor, probably there to keep such from happening. I got them back by switching back to windowed and restarting.
I've seen tons of quirky material behavior trying to use the material editor as well. I hope this editor gets a bit of loving soon :)
#5
When submitting bugs please follow the new bug report standard.
Some of your issues fall more under usability feature requests, some are issues that I think there are active tickets for, and others are issues that were not encountered during testing. If you use the new standard then that will help us track down the issue faster, and please post only 1 bug per report.
I'm removing this thread from the bugs section as I would prefer that only bug reports be posted in the bugs section.
08/09/2010 (6:34 pm)
@MarkusWhen submitting bugs please follow the new bug report standard.
Some of your issues fall more under usability feature requests, some are issues that I think there are active tickets for, and others are issues that were not encountered during testing. If you use the new standard then that will help us track down the issue faster, and please post only 1 bug per report.
I'm removing this thread from the bugs section as I would prefer that only bug reports be posted in the bugs section.
#6
11/16/2010 (7:14 pm)
@Steve Damsky - The material editor crashing is still an issue for me. It's unusable. Have you found a solution?
#7
11/16/2010 (7:28 pm)
worth looking at any legacy material.cs files to see if they are standard with anything new. May not be related but I've experienced this in the past, wiping the slate clean and it seemed to be ok
#8
11/16/2010 (9:58 pm)
I have the same problem as Steve Damsky. I have a feeling that it is caused by imposter dds files. Maybe someone can dig into that.
Torque 3D Owner Steve
YP productions
There might be other errors, but I have never gotten past this first one.
I believe not too many people are having these types of problems. I have only found about 3 posts speaking of it.
I have not reported it as a bug because in my case it only began to happen after I loaded a lot of purchased art, so I was never sure if it was T3D's problem or a problem with the art. However, I am now of the opinion, after my feeble attempts to track down the error using visual studio, that there is certainly a problem in T3D code. Bad or corrupted art should not cause a runtime error, should it? Also, I have no way of giving instructions to anyone on how to reliably replicate this error.
I would suggest that anyone who can reliably replicate a material editor crash formally post it as a bug.
If anyone is interested, I could run my test in visual studio again and copy and paste some of the error messages.