Next Code drop ? using current is getting counter productive.

#21 omg Today is the day 7/1

GG is very hard working i know but I just want to keep GG appointment that release day

im exchausted :(

#22 I apologize for that confusion.

When Eric last posted about Torque 3D 1.1 in early June, I thought that we would be able to get Torque 3D 1.1 Beta 2 out in late June/early July and that Torque 3D 1.1 Final would be ready by the end of July.

However, things have moved a little slower than we originally thought it would and now it is unlikely that Torque 3D 1.1 Final will be out in July.

Moving forward, I am going to be posting regular updates like this one:
Torque 3D Status - 6/30/2010

Hopefully that will help to reduce confusion in the future.

#23 No offense Matt, but all the explanations in the world are not going to win back anyone's trust. We were given extra information during the development of Torque3D. The problem was the information was bad, incorrect, and dare I say dishonest.

I think we just want something documented and stable.

#24

Quote:Andy Rollins Said:lol Caylo that's some imagination to jump from waiting an extra month to "your paycheck may never arrive" - don't think the two are comparable at all!

Are you Effing kidding me? That is exactly right. You see this is the problem. Some of us are in the middle of huge project that we cannot complete and get paid because of GG dragging their feet. There is is still a complete lack of professionalism with the GG staff and Community Though not near as bad as it was before the buy-out when everyone worked on what they want when they wanted. We are in the middle of a and almost million dollar project so yes, these constant delays are completely unacceptable. If we were less far along in this project say only a couple months we would drop T3D and GG for that matter like a bad habit.

Some of us are trying to run legitimate businesses using torque. Some of us are not hobbyist that can wait years for a company to get their shit together and deliver the product that people have in good faith already paid for and have yet to receive. The problem here is the fact that so much of the Torque community is made up of hobbyist. This has led GG to the impression that this level of un-professionalism is acceptable. It is not.

Matt you have just stated what many of already knew and is exactly the reason so many of us are upset:

Quote:The best estimate I can give you at this point is that Torque 3D 1.1 Beta 2 will release after iT2D 1.4 and Torque X 3.1.5 have shipped and QA has had time to focus a little more on Torque 3D.

We don't want to hear about why T3D has to take a back seat to these other products. This should be the other way around. You have sold us a product and then have gone and worked on something else. It is becoming more than clear to me that Torque3D is indeed not GG's FLAGSHIP product that producing tools for casual games and ipad is you primary focus. And quite frankly with much better solutions available not once again GG has let a product that truly had potential to shine become stagnate and neglected. Once again you have placed other products above your existing customers in attempts to chase the latest fad.

This will be our first and last T3D project.

#25 Wow this is getting brutal, remember your not the only ones here with money riding on their project and working very hard to get a production out the door.

Matt said they would post more frequent updates and I think we need to let them do their job unless they slip more than just a little, after all when was the last time one of YOUR software development projects went 100% according to plan out the door on schedule with no more bugs?

#26 I'm sorry James but if a Beta product being delayed by a month or so means you don't get any pay check then I think you need to look at your internal business process and the huge risk you've exposed yourself up to being reliant on a 3rd party who you excerpt no influence over.

and especially when your assumption of a release seems to come from a blog in april that said "We hope to get the beta out in the next month or so?" --- there's nothing concrete there.

I know it doesn't help you and I know it's frustrating and a real issue for your project having to wait longer than you expected for a product to ship but you should have being catering for that event with your project planning, risk mitigation, etc and not laying blame at GG's feet if their deadlines and priorities aren't aligned with your own.

You may also find you get a better response talking directly and professionally to GG rather than posting flamitory comments on a public forum.... just my opinion.

#27

Quote:
I'm sorry James but if a Beta product being delayed by a month or so means you don't get any pay check then I think you need to look at your internal business process and the huge risk you've exposed yourself up to being reliant on a 3rd party who you excerpt no influence over.

You just described 90% of the game industry, and you're out of line.

#28 TGE - $100
TGB - $100
TGEA - $250
T3D - $500

Total spent on GG engines - $950
Total money made on products created with GG engines ~ $10,000

That's over a 10 time return on my investment. Maybe you just need better programmers.

Do I want better documentation? Yes. Do I want a quicker release and update schedule? Yes.

I'm I going to let the lack of either of those things stop me from finishing my projects, and/or getting paid? Hell no.

I don't whine... I work...

#29 @Everyone
Let's try to keep this discussion from devolving into personal attacks, thanks.

#30

Quote:
I don't whine... I work...

Brutal response, but oh so true! :D

Do I care about documentation? No! Do I care about TorqueX or iT2D? No, but from a business (and engineering) standpoint I can understand that these products also need the focus and direction that was seen in Torque3d development. A quicker release and update schedule (for bugs, stability, optimization) would be nice but the current pace of things does not prevent me from working, nor should it anyone else.

Most of the repeated "time wasting" bug reports is from "new" people not reading/researching older(er) forum posts - but they are learning and that is valuable regardless of how anyone personally feels that is time wasted. Just the act of TP staff taking the time to respond to continual harping and negativity wastes more of anyones time than anything else.

Nowhere else in the industry will you find such honesty and forthrightness about what is going on with "current" development -- even if it seems a little slow ;) -- thanks Matt!

#31 (Hey Michael, where you been?)


Now is a great time for everyone who is truly unhappy about T3D's record of Few Truths, Twisted Tails, and even Broken Commitments to start researching Other Game Engines That deliver anything close or better then T3D.

It would also be great if GarageGames could offer refunds to the unhappy masses, they could use that T3D money to seek consoling to help heal the wounds from such torquepowered molestations.

Also Mich;

Quote:Nowhere else in the industry will you find such honesty and forthrightness

Honesty and forthrightness are a few of the things this new GG seem to have a problem with. The only thing they HAVE been honesty and forthrightness about is NOT being able to keep there word. I have a growing list of Official Posts going back over a year of things GG have said they are going to do, that never happen.

Disclaimer: Caylo Gypsyblood disclaims all liability, including liability for infringement on any personal opinions, relating to use of information in this specification See how fun they are?

#32 Like others have said, you can't just sit on your hands waiting for a fix. Suppose you get your next version - what then? Do you start production on your game?

But then you come across another bug high profile. Do you stop production again?

You can never really develop a game with the most current tools. You also can't attain mastery of those tools if you keep waiting for other bug fixes and feature additions.

You shouldn't be developing a GAME with the beta version. You're supposed to eb testing the features and submitting bugs. Make a game with 1.0 REALEASE and work hard on fixing any bugs that hamper production.

You seem to have a fixation on using the latest update for the engine. There are people still making great games on TGE.

#33 @Andy Said:

Quote:I'm sorry James but if a Beta product being delayed by a month or so means you don't get any pay check then I think you need to look at your internal business process and the huge risk you've exposed yourself up to being reliant on a 3rd party who you excerpt no influence over.

Yes becasue the beta being delay casues the next realease and everything behind it is delayed. Delays cost money. I'm gonna get my pay check I'm not worried but we are trying to run a business. We are not one guy in his house here We have over head and cost and delays cost us profit.

@Eric said:

Quote:
TGE - $100
TGB - $100
TGEA - $250
T3D - $500

Total spent on GG engines - $950
Total money made on products created with GG engines ~ $10,000

That's over a 10 time return on my investment. Maybe you just need better programmers.

Do I want better documentation? Yes. Do I want a quicker release and update schedule? Yes.

I'm I going to let the lack of either of those things stop me from finishing my projects, and/or getting paid? Hell no.

I don't whine... I work...

Oh really you sure about that return? Unless you have made that 10K return whilst spending less than two months of your time working 40 hour weeks. I have news for ya man by the time you pay taxes you are prolly making minimum wage or less for your time.

But that is not the point. The cost of the product is not the point. by purchasing the Torque3D SDK you are entering into a contract to be provided with a product and updates for a certain period. So yes when I hear that the Vendor supplying the technology that I have contracted to use has delayed fixing our problems because they were fixing or creating a new product. The yes I'm offended by that. Because as stated earlier delays cost money, and in turn reduce the profit of my company.

And sense I know your prolly thinking it about me anyway:

#34 The Torque X customers and the iTorque customers also paid us for a product and deserve a fair amount of resources as well.

The Torque X community in particular has been getting the short end of the resource allocation for far, far too long while we focused on Torque 3D.

If we had an infinite amount of developers and an infinite amount of QA then we could always run all of the product development in parallel but that is not the situation. If you have multiple products then there are going to be certain points where things have to serialize.

#35 @Matt I get that really I do. Unfortunately, My obligations are the the concerns of my company, employees, and clients. The current situation doesn't benefit my bottom line.

#36 I have a very large amount of work done on my project, 8 years worth of collected assets, refined scripts, and experimental engine modifications.

I have the collected content to quickly complete a few different projects once a advertised feature complete working version of T3D is released.

Alot of my hard game design work is done, I just need the engine i bought to use it!

And somehow i seem to have plenty of time to "whine" about these Torque subjects and still be exceptionally productive.

#37 But why do you need to wait for features? You spend 8 years building a game. Is the forest editor CRUCIAL to your game design?

I can't understand developing a game for that long and not having the skills to implement/fix the features yourself in less time.

#38 So your saying you can not comprehend expecting a tool that was purchased for a job to do what that tool was advertised to do?


EDIT: Also the fact your not taking into consideration that some aspects of T3D that are truly critical do some game designs have never worked correctly or have been re-broken and never repaired.

#39 Can you be more specific? I'm not trying to be antagonizing, but what "promised" tool are you upset about or is this just general morose?

More than likely, you're upset about something that was alluded to, is in production, but hasn't come out yet.

If it's TRULY critical to your design, shouldn't you be throwing a lot of man hours at it anyway? No "out-of-the-box" tool or feature will make your game good or appealing. Why not write a custom version of the tool you want? It's not like you'll get the tool from GG and everything will be fine and you'll drive off into the sunset in your red camaro with a bucket of cash

You have a legit claim to be upset, but it's the defeatist attitude that makes me also think there's nothing people could post that would assuage your anger.

#40

Quote:(Hey Michael, where you been?)

I had a forced 6-8 month hiatus from game-dev due to surgery and ensuing physical therapy.

Quote:
I have a very large amount of work done on my project, 8 years worth of collected assets, refined scripts, and experimental engine modifications.

I have this also... back in the years when I was just a hobbyist. Literally dozens of prototypes and sandboxes -- some of which are now finished projects -- so maybe that experience has been good for me and my current contentment with Torque3D.

Personal or community expectation aside (given that some hyped feature(s) may have been cut) what aspect of Torque3D is missing/broken and so mission critical as to consider it's lack of delivery (or late status) so unusable/unworking? Granted I may have missed a lot of forum activity/discussion that already covered such things, but those are the kind of details that are needed instead of vague resentment that the tool in hand might not work the way one expects. Sure it's frustrating that the Garage may not be as timely as some would wish when it comes to collation and turn-around of bug reports, but it is also up to us to properly manage our time and resources with what we do have.

I too am late on fulfilling a contracted obligation but that is in no way due to any missing feature, bug, or lack of documentation of T3D. I tend to agree with Daniel's recent posts.