Does anyone even use TorqueX3D or did everyone just give up because of the bugs????

#1 I'm waiting for a more stable release before I begin anything.

#2 not everyone gave up www.torquepowered.com/community/forums/viewthread/113823

#3 I too am waiting for a more stable release before I invest real time into it ( my 14 month old daughter is another distraction, admittedly ). It would be different if they released the source to the current editor, working to fix it as a community effort would be both educational and communal. I don't even care if the current source is C++ that only compiles on VS2003. Waiting for the T3D editor to be adapted to TorqueX is taking awhile, with no guarantee of when even a beta will be released.

I got this engine primarily to be a game designer, with a bit of coding to adapt the thing to do what I want. As it is, working with this engine is a full time project for a coder. Since I was part of the lucky majority that kept their job through the recession, I don't have the time to invest into learning TX3D inside out and hacking together my own tools to work with their xml.

I can sympathize with the lack of internal resources for the individuals in Garage Games involved with TX3D. I do not appreciate the lack of accuracy in the promotional material selling the TX3D engine even to this day. We can hope that the realignment inside GG to actually give TX3D a budget might reap us early adopters ( and later ones, obviously ) some benefit, but I've learned my lesson. I will not invest any significant resources on just 'hope' or 'faith' in GG to deliver what it promises. I already threw $250 down a hole for over a year waiting for them to deliver a meaningfully functional subset of the features promised.

I would have gladly switched licenses to TX2D if it had not meant swallowing a $100 loss. I was stupid to buy TX3D before it was released in demo form so that I could check it out for myself. Still, this was an important life lesson that will stick with me.

Finally, in any business situation, you always have to just look forward. What you spent already ( time, money, etc. ) is a sunk cost you ( usually ) cannot get back. You have to do your cost/benefit analysis based on your best estimates going forward. For me, that calculus says wait to see what Garage Games deliver in the April update: be it a real update or communication explaining what is going on if they cannot meet the date.

As a reminder:

3.2.2 April 2010 - Focus: Editor Upgrades
New 3D level editor
New 2D level editor
3D Terrain editing
3D Terrain lightmap shadows

#4 Kyle they have been listening to us: www.torquepowered.com/community/blogs/view/19533

I wish it was sooner rather than later.

#5 I read through the comments, and it looks like Eric addressed what I saw as the #1 root problem; insufficient QA. The whole "it is exponentially more expensive to fix bugs the later in the process that they are found" thing seems to have been totally screwing GG over. Teaming up with Full Sail University sounds like a win/win for both GG and the students.

I hope that their FTE headcount includes some experienced SDET talent. As a general rule you should have 2-to-1 ratio of SDEs to SDETs. Obviously teamed with a good bug tracking system ( DevTrack is pretty good, btw ). With a little training the user community can get good at giving source / repro steps to make it easy for the formal QA department to repro and enter into the tracking system. If there ever comes a time that the SDETs are underutilized for strict QA, they can start doing some more SDE type work for tools and such. That way some SDETs can mustang from QA into Dev as inevitable attrition in Dev occurs. This also helps retain the QA talent in GG, because there is vertical mobility.


I will have to wait and see if GG is going to actually do something substantive. The one thing I am ( somewhat ) expecting based on Eric's post + comments is the adaption of the T3D editor to TX3D to be pushed out beyond April.

#6 I too made the mistake of buying the pre-order and I too have just about written it off as a loss. I find it very frustrating that the samples that can be downloaded from John K's site for chapter 12 of the TorqueX book don't actualy work:

http://www.torquepowered.com/community/forums/viewthread/113779

If you donwload and run the sample you will see that the thumbstick input does not work once you replace the FreeCameraComponent with the T3DCameraComponent. How am I supposed to learn from your examples if they are incorrect????

Another frustration is that some of the solutions won't even compile because they contain references to both TorqueX 2D and 3D dll's, which would work fine if both were sold bundled for a single price but they are not, so I basically have to buy both engines in order to run the code in the final chapters of the book???

I'm beyond being frustrated and just want GG to fix the problems and release a quality product that will actually help speed up the development process. Hopefully this new "strategy" delivers that.

#7 After seeing the truth of TX (in that it was never a serious product is only just now going to be, which means long lead times before we see any useful improvements), I've moved on. I now use Unity and am progressing far faster than ever before. Unity has its own list of issues, but damn, it's so much faster and easier than TorqueX.

Good luck TorqueX, I hope to come back and see that you are useful one day.

#8 Unity doesn't have a XNA version. Since I program for the Xbox I have this or some freebie/hobby engine.

#9 I understand that Henry, however my target platform was always the PC. I also love C# and dislike C++, and try as I might I could never quite get the C++ engines in the amount of time I had available. They're for people who have time and resources and need the power. I need the ease of use.

Todd asked if everyone gave up because of the bugs. I did. I really hope GG make TorqueX into something awesome, but right now I'm being productive instead of fighting bugs.

#10 Unity 3D is an awesome engine, GG should be taking notes from them. Unfortunately my target platform is also xbox 360 which is the only reason I haven't purchased Unity.

#11 I certainly hope they do too. But of course, most likely by the time they get anywhere near that power it will be a new version and I'll have to shell out yet again in the hope of getting a usable product. Unity is free.

#12 wow, I was going to get into TX but after reading this thread, forget it.

Thanks for the warning.

#13 @eb, we have a number of games on XBLIG right now. There is an update in the works hopefully we will see it soon?