Generic Controller Support

#1 ...no one wants to cop to this one, huh.

#2 'Gamepad wrapper class with DirectInput' on the XNA forums
..links to this DirectInput wrapper

This seems to be another popular DirectInput wrapper for XNA

HTH

#3 A wrapper??!! GG's advertisement for this engine doesn't mention anything about a wrapper. However it does mention...(see quote from original post). Hopefully these "wrappers" created by someone other than GG for GG's product that is advertised as...(see quote from original post)...will work thus preventing me from either suggesting that GG change their advertisment to include "oh yeah, you need to download a wrapper to use game pads other than Xbox 360's" or blasting GG as false advertisers and demanding my money back for this engine.

#4 After reviewing the two "wrappers", I've concluded that they both sound like hacks into the XNA framework in an attempt to disquise a generic controller pad as an Xbox 360 pad. Are these hacks approved by Microsoft? If so, did GG forget to include the functionality these hacks promise into TX3D thus making (see quote from original post) a true claim? $250.00 is alot of money to spend on an engine that gives you the ability to either make games for your own enjoyment on your Xbox 360 (hope you got one 'cause we never told you that without the Xbox 360 USB controller, $50-$60, you'll have to use the keyboard for your PC games) or for the purpose of submitting them to XboxLive (and if they reject the game, you've wasted alot of time and energy 'cause if you you try and sell it elsewhere you'll have to mention what GG failed to mention, the fact that you MUST have an Xbox 360 controller OR stick with the limited game play that the keyboard and mouse provide...in most instances).

Edit:
...and by the way, do you (zoid) work for GG? If not, it's a shame that they didn't respond to this personally. You'd think they would want to dispell any possible claims of false advertisment themselves instead of leaving it to the community developers. Though your response is appreciated, it is the equivalent of GG saying "sssshhhhhhh, lets not mention that".

#5 It's my understanding that the lack of gamepad support for TX3D is a cause of the lack of gamepad support for XNA. It seems that DirectInput was purposely left out of XNA for reasons unbeknownst to me. I'm not actually sure whether or not generic gamepads are supported in TX3D (I'm only assuming they aren't - I could be wrong), I just posted those links hoping they'd help. But yeah, those wrappers have been made unofficially and I don't believe they've been approved by MS, so I wouldn't expect them to be integrated with, or supported by Torque X.

I'm not a GG employee, and I'm not affiliated with GG in any way. I realise your frustration (I'm still awaiting the January TX3D update - it's almost april..!) though, to be honest, I'm not quite sure I understand where the claims of false advertising are coming from. I can't find any mention of 'controller support in Torque X'.

#6

Quote: I'm not quite sure I understand where the claims of false advertising are coming from. I can't find any mention of 'controller support in Torque X'

let me correct myself. half-a$$ed advertising. No, they never mentioned game pad support, they just said (see quote from original post). So I guess they never said you could use a game pad, they just never said you couldn't. After all, how many sales would they have lost if they'd advertised the engine as "keyboard and mouse on PC only"? How much money did they make on selling TGEA as their latest and greatest engine just to turn around and sell T3D (TGEA finished) two-or-so years later? Sounds like Microsoft and their "marketing" of Vista and then ,miraculously, Windows 7. GG sells TX3D with half-a$$ed documentation and then turns around and sells a book($60) with all the documentation that one would need to get started.

To put it straight-forward, I guess:

half-a$$ed marketing = good marketing.

and

Half truths = whole lies.

#7 RealmX,

Take it up with microsoft as they are the ones that make the XNA framework which is what GG's Torque X engines run on and THEY (Microsoft) are the ones that didn't put generic controller support into the product.

and yes those wrappers are hacks to make the controllers looks like 360 controllers which is pretty much the only way you will get generic controller support in XNA unless you write your own input system.

A Little insight into XNA and why generic gamepad support was left out as far as I can tell Microsoft left it out to maintain compatability with the xbox 360 I'm not excusing it but I can understand why they did it.

#8

Quote:Take it up with microsoft as they are the ones that make the XNA framework which is what GG's Torque X engines run on and THEY (Microsoft) are the ones that didn't put generic controller support into the product.

I don't blame GG for not including the support for generic controllers. I do blame GG for not mentioning that fact as TGEA owners should blame them for not mentioning T3D and Vista owners should blame Microsoft for not mentioning Windows 7(how many people would've just waited).

Quote:A Little insight into XNA and why generic gamepad support was left out as far as I can tell Microsoft left it out to maintain compatability with the xbox 360 I'm not excusing it but I can understand why they did it.

Maintain compatibility w/ Xbox 360 or maintain good sales numbers for their USB Xbox controller($60.00 VS a generic pad for $30.00)?

#9 I own a 360 and just move the controller back and forth as needed.

As for GG not mentioning T3D very few game/development companies mention what they are working on in advance of it being ready for the public to view.

I can guarante that microsoft is workong on an un-announced OS to replace windows 7 right now. there will always be something new that companies will be developing to replace thier older products thats the way the business works.

Quote: I don't blame GG for not including the support for generic controllers. I do blame GG for not mentioning that fact

Why does GG have to mention stuff that microsoft did.
GG's product is using Microsoft XNA's input system therefore it does only what XNA will allow it to do.

If your target platform is windows your free to use any input system you like.

/done with this issue as its a dead horse now.

#10

Quote:I own a 360 and just move the controller back and forth as needed.

with an adapter? last I saw, the 360 controller was not USB. Or maybe YOUR computer has an XBox 360 controller port.

Quote:
I can guarante that microsoft is workong on an un-announced OS to replace windows 7 right now. there will always be something new that companies will be developing to replace thier older products...

yeah, and they were working on Vista for...how long was XP considered an acceptable business and home PC solution (for most, it probably still is)? Working on fixes and/or upgrades/patches, maybe. But an entirely new OS? Why make Windows 7 in the first place? A new OS/game engine means BIG changes dues to user/industry demand or oops, we "forgot" some things.

Quote:Why does GG have to mention stuff that microsoft did.

...and for someone who doesn't know that XNA only works with XBox 360 controllers...

Quote:You can code in C#, then run your game in Windows OR on your own retail XBox 360 using XNA Game Studio 3.0 and XNA Creator's Club

can be VERY misleading.

Quote:done with this issue as its a dead horse now

for now?
according to...

Quote:
it does only what XNA will allow it to do

unless Microsoft and GG make some changes to XNA/TX3D respectively, its definitivley a dead horse and...

Quote:You can code in C#, then run your game in Windows OR on your own retail XBox 360 using XNA Game Studio 3.0 and XNA Creator's Club

should read...

Quote:You can code in C#, then run your game in Windows (with a USB Xbox 360 controller) OR on your own retail XBox 360 using XNA Game Studio 3.0 and XNA Creator's Club

#11 Maybe you should be complaining about this to Microsoft as there is nothing GG can do, and there was also nothing they did wrong. They arent advertising what XNA cant do, they are advertising what THEIR engine does.

#12

Quote:...they are advertising what THEIR engine does

Quote:You can code in C#, then run your game in Windows or on your own retail XBox 360 using XNA Game Studio 3.0 and XNA Creator's Club

...is NOT an accurate advertisment for TX3D.

Quote:You can code in C#, then run your game in Windows with an Xbox 360 USB controller or simply the keyboard and mouse or on your own retail XBox 360 using XNA Game Studio 3.0 and XNA Creator's Club

..is an accurate advertisment for TX3D.

Quote:and there was also nothing they did wrong

...legal speaking, no. Morally speaking...well...
True that GG never said TX3D supports generic controllers so your argument would stand in a legal courtroom. The fact that GG never mentioned the fact that TX3D DOESN'T support generic controllers and, instead, advertised...

Quote:You can code in C#, then run your game in Windows or on your own retail XBox 360 using XNA Game Studio 3.0 and XNA Creator's Club

...DOES present a moral issue. WHY wasn't this fact mentioned? WHY didn't GG list the full capabilities AND limitations of TX3D? GG sure didn't have a problem listing system requirements(AKA system limitations) so...

#13 What don't you get?

Quote:limitations of TX3D

It is NOT a limitation of Torque X, it is a limitation of XNA. I would suggest that unless you are trying to stir up flames you stop posting about this issue here and go to the source of the issue - Microsoft.

#14 @RealmX
GarageGames aren't going to mention everything TorqueX can't do (that is not expected for it to do in the first place). The fact is that TorqueX can, and DOES run games on the Windows platform via keyboard input, so what GG have said is absolutely true.

I honestly think that you just haven't done your research on XNA, which has lead to frustration; frustration which you are expressing against GG for no apparent reason.

#15 I posted to the XNA forums about this same thing, the consensus was basically go buy a 360 usb controller.

#16 @RealmX
All wired 360 controllers are USB hence the 2 usb ports in the front of the xbox 360.

if you have a wireless controller then yes you need an adaptor which you can buy at www.amazon.com/Xbox-Wireless-Gaming-Receiver-Windows-Pc/dp/B000HZFCT2/ref=sr_1_1...

#17 Zoid:

Quote:The fact is that TorqueX can, and DOES run games on the Windows platform via keyboard input, so what GG have said is absolutely true.

for those who missed that, I'll say it again...

Quote:...via keyboard input...

...and THAT fact was mentioned in the initial advertisment of TX3D...oh, wait...NO, it wasn't!

Quote:I honestly think that you just haven't done your research on XNA

When I read:

Quote:You can code in C#, then run your game in Windows or on your own retail XBox 360 using XNA Game Studio 3.0 and XNA Creator's Club

the first thing I thought was "hey, the guys at GG figured out a way to utilize generic controller pads with XNA" like all of their engines.

Adam:

Quote:It is NOT a limitation of Torque X, it is a limitation of XNA

And, therefore, a limitation of TX3D.

Quote:I would suggest that unless you are trying to stir up flames you stop posting about this issue here

I would suggest that, unless you are GG employee, you NOT attempt to dictate where and/or when someone on this OPEN FORUM posts anything.

Scott:

Quote:All wired 360 controllers are USB hence the 2 usb ports in the front of the xbox 360

I don't own an Xbox 360, however, the last time I looked at one, I remember seeing a big clunky connector on the end of it...and it did not resemble a USB connector. Did I miss something?

Henry:

Quote:...the consensus was basically go buy a 360 usb controller

Exactly! Now, if only I'd known that $250.00 ago.

Out of all of the responses to this post, no one is willing to deny the fact that:

Quote:
Minimum Requirements
1.0 GHz processor
512 MB RAM (1GB recommended for Vista)
Windows XP or Vista with latest service packs
Microsoft XNA Game Studio 3.0
Microsoft Visual Studio 2008/Visual C# Express 2008
Video card supporing DirectX 9.0c and Shader Model 1.4

Recommended Requirements
2.0 GHz processor or better
1 GB RAM
nVidia or ATI accelerated 3D video card


XNA Creator's Club Membership
XNA Creator's Club membership is required to run your Torque X games on an Xbox 360, but not required to use Torque X on a PC.

does NOT include ANY mention of needing or even possibly prefering (instead of keyborad/mouse) an Xbox 360 USB controller...and if I were THAT far of the mark, I think a GG employee would've stepped in LONG ago. More than likely, as far as they're concerned, I'm absolutely right. And, so Adam doesn't run home and tell his mommy, NOW I'm done with this issue.

#18 I agree it sucks! I have never had the wireless controller adapter work right. I know If I were developing for PC it would bug me, however if it's a problem in XNA then I don't know what anyone can do about it.

No need to get all in another posters face about it.

sourceforge.net/projects/gamepadxna/