Questions about the usefulness of learning Torque Game engine
by Chin Liu · in General Discussion · 01/13/2010 (7:43 pm) · 10 replies
Hi,
My goal is to get a job in a game development company such as: Capcom, Bioware, EA, Level5, etc……
I have been practicing very heavily on DirectX and linear algebra.
Now that I have purchased 3D torque, I want to ask these questions:
1.) By becoming very experienced with the torque game engine, will companies such as Bioware and EA hire me?
2.) In general, do companies such as Bioware and EA consider torque game engine an industry standard?
I ask these questions, because I don’t see torque game engine being listed on the skill requirement of the job posting of these companies.
Thank you for answering these questions in advance
My goal is to get a job in a game development company such as: Capcom, Bioware, EA, Level5, etc……
I have been practicing very heavily on DirectX and linear algebra.
Now that I have purchased 3D torque, I want to ask these questions:
1.) By becoming very experienced with the torque game engine, will companies such as Bioware and EA hire me?
2.) In general, do companies such as Bioware and EA consider torque game engine an industry standard?
I ask these questions, because I don’t see torque game engine being listed on the skill requirement of the job posting of these companies.
Thank you for answering these questions in advance
#2
But basically, if you're good at what you do, people will be interested.
EDIT: Forgot-
01/14/2010 (1:20 am)
I agree with what Ted's getting at - your abilities are more likely to get you hired, not necessarily your abilities with a specific platform. That said, it's probably a benefit to know your way around the products you might be working with in the future - for example, it's good for an artist to know 3DS Max since that's what a lot of major developers use.But basically, if you're good at what you do, people will be interested.
EDIT: Forgot-
Quote:will companies such as Bioware and EA hire me?Nobody can guarantee you that ;). Only you.
#3
Isn't there even one game development company that uses the Torque Game Engine?
Not even one? Just how come it can’t be used to make Final Fantasy 13 or Resident Evil 5? I thought Torque Game Engine has no limit, since its source code can be modified in any way to enhance it. Please tell me why develops don’t use it at all?
Why do they use Unreal instead? Why?
01/14/2010 (1:25 am)
Hi, TedIsn't there even one game development company that uses the Torque Game Engine?
Not even one? Just how come it can’t be used to make Final Fantasy 13 or Resident Evil 5? I thought Torque Game Engine has no limit, since its source code can be modified in any way to enhance it. Please tell me why develops don’t use it at all?
Why do they use Unreal instead? Why?
#4
They don't use torque because its not up to pair with those other high cost engines that are ahead of Torque and will most likly always be ahead of Torque.
They have 100s of people working on there engines wile torque has what less then 50. The big companys want the latest tec so they can do anything and everything with that lastet tec.
01/14/2010 (1:42 am)
I don't knwo if they would hire ya i thought they only hire if you have a degree. Though if you show them your real good then they might still hire ya.They don't use torque because its not up to pair with those other high cost engines that are ahead of Torque and will most likly always be ahead of Torque.
They have 100s of people working on there engines wile torque has what less then 50. The big companys want the latest tec so they can do anything and everything with that lastet tec.
#5
I am now working as a software engineer in a power utility company.
Every single night after work, I study until 2 am. (I am SOOOOO tired)
I have been working so hard to learn DirectX and to improve my linear algebra skill. I even have learned quaternion!!
However, half year ago, when I read the job requirement again, I saw that OpenGL is also one of the requirements. So, I tried very hard to learn OpenGL as well.
Just when I thought I am ready for a game development career, I read again that python is another requirement. Just when will the list ended!!!! I am very tired in chasing skills after skills.
Torque Game Engine does not use python, it uses Torque script instead. So, just learning how to use Torque will not help me in getting a game programmer job.
Therefore, I know that I need to somehow understand the implementation of the Torque Game Engine. By doing so, I can transfer this knowledge to work with other engines as well, such as Unreal engine. So I tried to learn the source code of Torque. But, there just isn’t any good book on understanding the source code. I purchased the book, Multiplayer Gaming and Engine Coding. But it only shows you a small part of the engine.
I swear that, in this world, there is NOTHING that interests me except for video games. I just want to be one who makes them. But it is just stupidly TOUGH to make it there. I envy those who make it there.
Are you guy experiencing what I am going through as well?
01/14/2010 (2:27 am)
I am a graduate from the electrical engineering department at the University of Calgary in Canada.I am now working as a software engineer in a power utility company.
Every single night after work, I study until 2 am. (I am SOOOOO tired)
I have been working so hard to learn DirectX and to improve my linear algebra skill. I even have learned quaternion!!
However, half year ago, when I read the job requirement again, I saw that OpenGL is also one of the requirements. So, I tried very hard to learn OpenGL as well.
Just when I thought I am ready for a game development career, I read again that python is another requirement. Just when will the list ended!!!! I am very tired in chasing skills after skills.
Torque Game Engine does not use python, it uses Torque script instead. So, just learning how to use Torque will not help me in getting a game programmer job.
Therefore, I know that I need to somehow understand the implementation of the Torque Game Engine. By doing so, I can transfer this knowledge to work with other engines as well, such as Unreal engine. So I tried to learn the source code of Torque. But, there just isn’t any good book on understanding the source code. I purchased the book, Multiplayer Gaming and Engine Coding. But it only shows you a small part of the engine.
I swear that, in this world, there is NOTHING that interests me except for video games. I just want to be one who makes them. But it is just stupidly TOUGH to make it there. I envy those who make it there.
Are you guy experiencing what I am going through as well?
#6
Maybe. They don't usually broadcast what engine they're using unless it's like Unreal or Crytek or something that has a brand with the users. But again, that doesn't matter as much as what you can do with it.
It can do those games.
This industry is one of the last frontiers where degrees don't matter so much. Talent is something that cannot be taught in a classroom (learning 3-point perspective won't make people into DaVinci, but someone with DaVinci-like talent would benefit from learning 3-point perspective).
Wrong on both counts ;) People have implemented Python as a scripting language for Torque before, and people have used Torque as a way to learn how to code with game engines.
What you need to do is, instead of chasing every programming skill you see listed in a job, is to learn one or two core languages (C++, Python, C# come to mind), and then do some things with them. You can do them alone, or with Torque, or both. But having those little projects to show off builds up your portfolio and your worth.
It can take years to build up skills, so you'll need to be patient. Also, as far as docs are concerned, Torque is a bit light. Explore the source code, experiment, and read the comments (use Doxygen too), and you'll eventually gain a better understanding.
01/14/2010 (9:31 am)
Quote:Isn't there even one game development company that uses the Torque Game Engine?
Maybe. They don't usually broadcast what engine they're using unless it's like Unreal or Crytek or something that has a brand with the users. But again, that doesn't matter as much as what you can do with it.
Quote:Just how come it can’t be used to make Final Fantasy 13 or Resident Evil 5?
It can do those games.
Quote:i thought they only hire if you have a degree
This industry is one of the last frontiers where degrees don't matter so much. Talent is something that cannot be taught in a classroom (learning 3-point perspective won't make people into DaVinci, but someone with DaVinci-like talent would benefit from learning 3-point perspective).
Quote:Torque Game Engine does not use python, it uses Torque script instead. So, just learning how to use Torque will not help me in getting a game programmer job.
Wrong on both counts ;) People have implemented Python as a scripting language for Torque before, and people have used Torque as a way to learn how to code with game engines.
What you need to do is, instead of chasing every programming skill you see listed in a job, is to learn one or two core languages (C++, Python, C# come to mind), and then do some things with them. You can do them alone, or with Torque, or both. But having those little projects to show off builds up your portfolio and your worth.
It can take years to build up skills, so you'll need to be patient. Also, as far as docs are concerned, Torque is a bit light. Explore the source code, experiment, and read the comments (use Doxygen too), and you'll eventually gain a better understanding.
#7
The list and the chase end when you retire. Until then, being a programmer means a life of continuing education. That's the job - the ability to adapt, update, and learn new skills is what's key.
That's why it's not really very important what you learn right now, be it Torque, Unreal, Crytek, or whatever this month's current hotness might be. The best programmer isn't the one that knows one engine inside and out; he's the one who understands the theory and principles they all have in common, and can adapt to any engine in a short time frame.
01/14/2010 (11:14 am)
Quote:Just when I thought I am ready for a game development career, I read again that python is another requirement. Just when will the list ended!!!! I am very tired in chasing skills after skills.
The list and the chase end when you retire. Until then, being a programmer means a life of continuing education. That's the job - the ability to adapt, update, and learn new skills is what's key.
Quote:"Well, in our country," said Alice, still panting a little, "you'd generally get to somewhere else — if you run very fast for a long time, as we've been doing."
"A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"
-- Through the Looking-Glass
That's why it's not really very important what you learn right now, be it Torque, Unreal, Crytek, or whatever this month's current hotness might be. The best programmer isn't the one that knows one engine inside and out; he's the one who understands the theory and principles they all have in common, and can adapt to any engine in a short time frame.
#8
I will keep those advice you guy have given in mind and will keep practicing.
Thank you the Torque Community.
01/14/2010 (12:40 pm)
Many thanks to you all who have kindly replied my message.I will keep those advice you guy have given in mind and will keep practicing.
Thank you the Torque Community.
#9
QFT, as the kids say these days. This is the answer you're looking for, though it may not be the one you want.
Torque isn't used in any high budget AAA studio for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that those studios have a certain image to maintain, and a ~$6000 commercial engine license doesn't fit that image. The engine needs to cost more or it looks like they're not fitting into their high budget AAA model. That sounds crazy, but it's entirely true.
Another obvious reason is the engine tech that costs $500,000+ probably has more tools and stock features than the one that costs 1% of that, simply because it makes more money and has more dev time assigned to it.
For example, Torque supports quick integration of things like PhysX, ODE, Bullet, but you'll need to do some work if you want vehicles that use this physics engine. Torque's stock vehicles currently use an outdated internal physics solution which was written for Tribes 2. It's not hard to get your vehicles using, say, Bullet (I'm doing this), but an engine like Unreal 3 likely supports PhysX vehicles out of the box.
That said, C++ is the standard, and most script looks like C-script (Torque's script is actually based on C syntax, not any proprietary system), so working with Torque will teach you things that translate well. It uses a client-server architecture, has advanced networking, modern SM3.0 rendering code, physics package integrations, all the things you'd be working with in a modern high-priced engine.
So, back to the original comment, no, none of those large companies will hire you specifically to work with T3D, however the skills you learn from it are likely to translate well to other engines. In addition, you can't obtain the source code from an engine like Unreal without paying an insane amount of money, so it's not really an option to learn from its code anyway.
For the record, I don't care for the Unreal engine, never have. :P
01/15/2010 (3:33 pm)
Quote:That's why it's not really very important what you learn right now, be it Torque, Unreal, Crytek, or whatever this month's current hotness might be. The best programmer isn't the one that knows one engine inside and out; he's the one who understands the theory and principles they all have in common, and can adapt to any engine in a short time frame.
QFT, as the kids say these days. This is the answer you're looking for, though it may not be the one you want.
Torque isn't used in any high budget AAA studio for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that those studios have a certain image to maintain, and a ~$6000 commercial engine license doesn't fit that image. The engine needs to cost more or it looks like they're not fitting into their high budget AAA model. That sounds crazy, but it's entirely true.
Another obvious reason is the engine tech that costs $500,000+ probably has more tools and stock features than the one that costs 1% of that, simply because it makes more money and has more dev time assigned to it.
For example, Torque supports quick integration of things like PhysX, ODE, Bullet, but you'll need to do some work if you want vehicles that use this physics engine. Torque's stock vehicles currently use an outdated internal physics solution which was written for Tribes 2. It's not hard to get your vehicles using, say, Bullet (I'm doing this), but an engine like Unreal 3 likely supports PhysX vehicles out of the box.
That said, C++ is the standard, and most script looks like C-script (Torque's script is actually based on C syntax, not any proprietary system), so working with Torque will teach you things that translate well. It uses a client-server architecture, has advanced networking, modern SM3.0 rendering code, physics package integrations, all the things you'd be working with in a modern high-priced engine.
So, back to the original comment, no, none of those large companies will hire you specifically to work with T3D, however the skills you learn from it are likely to translate well to other engines. In addition, you can't obtain the source code from an engine like Unreal without paying an insane amount of money, so it's not really an option to learn from its code anyway.
Quote:Are you guy experiencing what I am going through as well?Personally, I don't want to work for EA or.. well I guess EA bought all the other game giants. I suppose I'd jump at a chance to work for Valve (the last Indie frontier in AAA games) or some hot new indie startup, but I'm an idealist who wants to build his own project with little to no supervision (read: lunatic), so this question may not apply to me. =)
For the record, I don't care for the Unreal engine, never have. :P
#10
Thank you for your opinion and advice, I really appreciate them.
I have some experience with ODE physics engine. And to integrate it into Torque is one of the things I really want to do. However, it won’t be happening in the near future since I just started working with Torque 2 weeks ago.
However, when I finally get to it, I may need your help.
You are just amazing, just how do you know where to do the code changes?
Recently, I tried to look into the C++ source code of the engine, I immediately became confused.
There is not enough documentation for me to work with the C++ source code of the engine, so I have decided to work with the scripting first to gain some insight about the engine. Hopefully, that will help me in understanding the C++ source code of the engine itself.
For me, understanding the essential parts of the C++ source code of the engine is what I called “the transferable knowledge”!!
If you don’t think I am asking too much, is it possible if you can email me those part of the code where you changed to work with another physics engine?
Or, is it possible if you can write a tutorial about it? Or even going further, I can pay you high price for this knowledge.
If you think I am asking too much, I am sorry.
01/15/2010 (7:33 pm)
Hi, Henry ToddThank you for your opinion and advice, I really appreciate them.
I have some experience with ODE physics engine. And to integrate it into Torque is one of the things I really want to do. However, it won’t be happening in the near future since I just started working with Torque 2 weeks ago.
However, when I finally get to it, I may need your help.
You are just amazing, just how do you know where to do the code changes?
Recently, I tried to look into the C++ source code of the engine, I immediately became confused.
There is not enough documentation for me to work with the C++ source code of the engine, so I have decided to work with the scripting first to gain some insight about the engine. Hopefully, that will help me in understanding the C++ source code of the engine itself.
For me, understanding the essential parts of the C++ source code of the engine is what I called “the transferable knowledge”!!
If you don’t think I am asking too much, is it possible if you can email me those part of the code where you changed to work with another physics engine?
Or, is it possible if you can write a tutorial about it? Or even going further, I can pay you high price for this knowledge.
If you think I am asking too much, I am sorry.
Torque 3D Owner Ted Southard
2) T3D is one of the better engines out there- but I think that if there was an engine that was on the tip of everyone's tongues, it would be Unreal.
But like I said, you can still prove yourself as a programmer on any engine. If you can implement a custom physics solution on T3D, then why not on Unreal or Unity or any of the dozens of custom engines out there?