Torque3D and Unity's New Pricing

#121 I did miss the whole asset background loading in 2.6 of Unity. Very interesting. Looks to be a rather hard scripted solution, but it would be a good start.

#122 @J.C.

You are certainly right, creating an MMO game is nothing out of this world, it takes some time tho, but is very doable,

is just that the concept of mmo, is compared to AoC, WOW, etc... kinda of games, and people think that this is the only way to create an MMO, as it is impossible for a single indie dev to create that much content for the game in a short period of time.
But, it doesnt have to be that massively large content or assests for the game,

you can do something small scale kinda like GuildWars style in small scale, with a few zones to lvl up and then get some battle zones for pvp, and there is where the fun start.
all is needed a good client- server framework and capable at least 100 playes simultaniously with a good game logic so people can have fun ganking eachother.

Hell, I ve been playing WOW for the past 4 years on and off, I dont like the lvling part since is so tedious, but I sure can spend hours and hours ganking noobs, and doing BG, all day long on my my free time. and I am no kid anymore as I am in my late 30's and still have a hell of a time playing these kind of games and wont get bored. lol

anyways, like J.C. said, yes there is lots of Asian made mmo games, and most of them are made from single guy or a small team of college students, and most not commercial, which proves is very doable,

I ve been checking a new open source mmorpg chinese game engine outhere written in C++, client , servers, seamless terrain, all game logic etc.. is still indevelopement but is functional now, very nice with great graphics, if I am not mistaken is being developed by a small group if not by a single young chinese guy. the only drawback is that is in chinese language, and is kinda hard to keep up with it, unless you have a chinese guy right next to you to translate for you, lol

but I think if an experienced C++ coder plays a bit with the source you can get the hang of it pretty qick. and you can get pretty much the base framework to start your own mmorpg game.

Asians specialize on MMO technology a lot. I ll bet you they even have classes in school on how to create mmo games as a required credit for graduation. lol

#123 @Joshua:

yeah, it looks its hard coded on 2.6 pro and free version, you just call it with scripting, on the link I posted before on this thread, you will find the demo download , just download it and run it in unity and it works out of the box in unity pro if you activate the 30 days trial for it if not, you can still use it but have to do some mods to the scripts which is listed on the forum on the link I provided aswell.

hope this helps.

#124

Quote:yeah, no source code but I dont think is needed for any AAA kinda of game dev.

There is no way you'd build a AAA title without access to source code.

#125 @David Chan:

Quote:There is no way you'd build a AAA title without access to source code.

Very very very true.

#126 @David

This is a very false assumption..

If you have cracked open the Unreal UDK or have Used Unity.. The core of the source code is in the Tech Features. (rendering, animation, editor tools, etc. ) Most All of the Core Gameplay Features are done in Script.

This of course is a matter of designing your game around the included features of the Engine.. (if you want to use a Navigation Mesh, instead of the built in Path Node system for example you would need source to add the feature) , but you can easily design around that.

You could easily design and create a AAA game with the UDK without ever touching the Source Code. The core is all there, and actually even when I was using torque i prototyped my whole game in Torque Script as well. I never touched the Source code.

The difference between a AAA game and a non AAA game is Content an Gameplay...

I have yet to see any environments created in torque that look anything close to the detailed environments in Gears of War, or Unreal Tournament.. And none of that requires source code to do. It needs talented content creators and Good Gameplay Design.

Whether you have source or not.. You don't have a game, if you don't have the content.

I think GG would be making a big mistake if they don't release a similar product.. I would go back and give the engine a try for a non_source free version, or even a $99.00 version.

#127 Jeff Cole I think David knows what hes talking about he owns a copy of the $350k engine because he payed $350k for it. He knows more about UDK and Unreal Engine 3 then any of us.

www.garagegames.com/community/forums/viewthread/105287/4#comment-697447

I just wanted to point that out to ya.

#128 Brandon, Are you David's mother?..did you look at his personal bank account and see the charge to EPIC ?

..do you know every person's experience level here ?


I don't think you should post like that anymore. You're assumptions are 129% terrible.

#129
@eb
And you're tone is 100% off the tracks.

#130 ..I would say 2 or 3% off the tracks. Not 100, not by far.

Here's why:
The Truth is the truth..if people can't handle it, they should not twist it as so they can handle it and regurgitate it globally. I am not out to cause a problem, I'm just trying to re-bend those bent-by-falsehood rails/tracks back to being straight.

I understand that I should not be so abrupt. *So for that I apologize.

- I like all of the packages being discussed...so I am not out to fanboi anything. Well, I will fanboi the truth, as I am a fanboi of truth.

So after that explanation, 2 to 3% 'off the tracks' sounds about right Rene.

#131
@eb
These are pretty big words, to be honest. I can only talk for myself here but what I absolutely know for sure about myself is that my grasp on what is "truth" is limited at best and I surely am in no position to lead anyone here back to the path of righteousness and whatnot.

#132 People, the last four posts have been a meta discussion that is derailing the thread. Can we please get back to the topic?

#133 Rene:oh well. So we disagree. No harm there IMO.
People have the tendency to read-into words rather than just reading words. I hope you chose the latter for my posts.

p.s. sorry for the off topic ride there

#134 @eb, I agree with Rene, you are really going too far with the tone of your posts.

And for the record, I also agree that David Chan here knows better than anyone on this thread about what takes to make an AAA title, so yes, before talking you should at least check who you are talking to.

#135 well, getting on track.

it doesnt matter if you own a BMW or if you own a kia, therefore by owning one or the otherone it just doesnt mean you have more experience on driving a vehicle or being a proffessional car racer.

Now, regarding AAA games, I think is not because of the engine that makes AAA games but the actual person or team who has the skills to and imagination to create it.,

I think it has to do if the public like it or not, if a great mass of people likes it then the game becomes sucessfully and thats when the game is cataloged as AAA game. so all it matter is a great and interesting game play and content, but that is just me, and we all think different.

Unfortunately T3D wont compare to UDK and is not even fair to do so, and offcourse fans of T3D willl get uncomfortable by reading a thread like this on their own playground.
I would not like if my neightboor comes knocking at my front door and telling me that his house if better then mine because not only his house has more luxury and larger than mine but because he got it for free. and I paid money for mine outfront.

Unreal is and has been a top quality engine because the developers have invested very large ammount of $$$ to refine the tools and goodies during so many years, now the fact that a lot of AAA games came out of large wealthy studios using Unreal technology that makes the engine the elite of the elites and that makes it a prestige engine.

Now, an engine with that kind of prestige and tools now being free even if it is the UDK with no source code, it doesnt matter since you will be using the elite engine for free, even with no source code you can still make AAA games and the same applies to T3D even not using sourcecode.

So all resides on the game developer avilities and imagination to take it to the next level.

But if you already know the ins and out of T3D and that makes you confortable with it, just continue your journey with it and do your best and make the next AAA title since there is nothing from keeping you from doing so.

this is the same principle for everything, some of us like ford and some of us like BMW,
although not all of us can afford it, and I am talking about not affording a ford and or a BMW
but if I see a BMW for free even if it is the lowest end model, I would not think twice to grab it.
but thats just me, and some other ones will rather buy the ford, and that is called being a fan of certain line of product, which is perfectly normal, and there is nothing wrong on being a fan, that is just human nature.

So I may be wrong but the way I see it is that using UDK, or Unity, or T3D, you can create a AAA title, and you wont even need source code for it at all. the engines have all the tools and scripting methods to create one.

the question is, do you have what it takes to create AAA title??

I think that is all that matters.

anyways that is just my .02

#136 To my somewhat uneducated opinion, I wonder if it's even comparing a kia to a BMW or comparing an SUV to a Ferrari... <shrug>

#137

Quote:So I may be wrong but the way I see it is that using UDK, or Unity, or T3D, you can create a AAA title, and you wont even need source code for it at all. the engines have all the tools and scripting methods to create one.

@pilotcap232, Who are you?

For someone whos only participation in the community has been this discussion, with no experience whatsoever, you have some excesive courage to came out and contradict what has been said by a well known community member, who has actually worked on several AAA titles.

#138 Just because someone has worked in the industry for 10+ years and has worked on several AAA games does not automatically mean whatever they say is fact, it is there opinion (but i will say there opinion does have more weight than other who don't have as much experience or released games.

The definition of an "AAA Title" is not a game created with source code access. Personally I think the whole "AAA Title" put on a game is just marketing BS. Most of the time the "AAA Title" is put on a game if it had a large budget whether or not the game itself was any good. I think it is completely possible to create a great game with fantastic visuals, fantastic gameplay elements, fantastic story line and be able to out sale any previous game in history without have the game engine source code access.

While my opinion is the complete opposite of David's opinion, my opinion can not be disproved which is why it is an opinion (or theory if you like). The whole can you create a "AAA Title" game without source code access question is not something that has a concrete answer. It is not like asking someone how many fingers they have because that is something that can be proven. Just because all current "AAA Title" games are created with engines with source code, does not mean you need the source code. All it will take it is one "AAA Title" created with Unity or UDK and I think that is completely possible.

#139 Haven't people already created Mods without source code, using UDK or the one by Valve, that were hugely successful? Mods that probably would have sold a lot, if they had been legally allowed to? (I am asking because I don't know positively what the answer is). If the answer is yes, then it seems to me that it is possible to create an AAA game without source code, because big time sales = AAA game, in my book.

#140 @Ryan, If someone with vast experience expresses something, is not *an opinion*, is an expression of what he actually *knows*.

And if you dont know as much, and you still dare to express against, you better have an argument, or you are nothing more than a fool, sustaining arguments just for the sake of it.

You are not introducing any argument either; all your participation here cames to one statement: "source code is not needed". You failed, however, in presenting any argument for that, and the people who really knows what is talking about are beeing contradicted without reason, experience, argument or thinking.