Torque3D and Unity's New Pricing

#1 hmm wow they price it free did not think they would try to challenge GG that high. Though there engine still sucks as it don't come with sorce. :P

GG is not part of unity ether so there no way they going to price it just because of unity made theres free.

#2 Interesting development. I don't know whether GG would follow simply because Unity did it. I was about to say T3D is a different beast because of its source access, but that wouldn't apply to an 'artist' version.

I'm going to put my money on 'no'.

#3 TGE/A is comparable to Unity Basic, while Torque 3D is comparable to Unity Pro (which is still $1500). TGE/A will no doubt be "free" as GG have stated that they plan on releasing the two engines under open source licences.

#4 wow, its true:

Quote:Download Unity - free for personal and commercial use
Simply download and start using it straight away.

store.unity3d.com/shop/

but i think that TGE 1.52 will be open source...

#5 I don't see how this really changes things. Torque is, has been, and will continue to be the best technology, for the best price, on the most platforms.

Is requiring your users to pay $1500 to use version control really indy friendly? Do you enjoy reading all of the blogs about users integrating open-source software like Bullet and ODE? Do you like supporting the development of tools, and 3rd party packs like Verve and GMK? These are things which have all been made possible by shipping Torque, from day one, with complete source code access, and no requirement to submit changes back to us. There are already Torque products available under open source licenses, the Torque Network Library, as well as the potential for additional products.

I welcome any software which empowers the indy developer, and this release certainly does. If another engine better suits the needs of developers I am sure that Torque will feel the heat. I think, though, that when developers look seriously about starting, developing, and shipping a game, Torque 3D will continue to be the tool of choice.

#6 Its a good move!
They are catering more to the hobbyist/small indie group which is good.
It was already pretty affordable at $200 but this pretty cool.

Its a pretty good engine for a perfect price..

I kinda believe GG and torque3d left the hobbyist market..

#7 It's an interesting development. I planned on trying Unity at some point anyway so this gives me a good chance to do so. Make no mistake though, I don't consider Unity Basic an alternative to T3D, as I don't see Unity Pro as comparable to T3D in most ways.

I think Unity is a great product and the Unity team seems like a fine bunch of people as well. But I don't like playing inside of someone else's box.. a box where someone else has drawn the lines where you can cross and where you can't. But they have to try and compete in the market somehow so this might be a good thing for them. I wish them luck, because competition is good for everyone.

~LK~

#8 I see Unity Indie as the replacement for TGEA, but like Andrew Brady, I don't see the Pro version as much competition to T3D. It's a good move on Unity's part, though. I don't get much time to look at the trial, so 30 days isn't enough. Now I have an unlimited trial :)

They could really compete if they made a proper 2D-only product. Leaner, meaner competition to TGB :)

#9 To be honest, I think Unity 2.6 is worth $0 (to me). The main draw card of Torque for me is the fact that there is support for 2D and 3D games (and iPhone, XBox), and the fact that the source is available makes addon kits very powerful.

I don't see a free Unity Indie being a problem for GG - T3D (and the upcoming 2D) is worth the asking price and people that can afford it will buy it if they prefer it to Unity. People that can't afford T3D or don't want to use it aren't potential customers, so no loss.

The decision to make Unity Indie free was also a purely business decision - it wasn't contributing much to the bottom line and they felt a free version would drive up sales of the pro version; so Unity isn't really doing anyone a favour...

I still downloaded Unity 2.6 though (because it's free) :)

#10 Any new tool set at more accessible prices is good for game development. I'm definitely happy to see Unity do this. It's great for the amateur and hobbyist crowd, particularly those with poor programming skills.

As for competing with Torque, I don't think that Unity "Indie" (free version, now just "Unity") competes with anything we sell now except possibly TGE/A. It's a good tool, but behind the tool is a brick wall, and that makes this a less impactful move than it could have been. What would have been really impressive and bold is an open source model. Even if it had just been for the underlying engine and not the tool set, that would have been much more impressive and have gone much further in helping developers use and understand the engine effectively. It would also open up much richer opportunities for creative use (3rd party code integrations, customizations, etc.)

I'm really happy with Torque 3D's current pricing. In fact, I still think $1k is a crazy steal for the technology, but if it will work for us and keep the community active and productive, it seems like a good balance. There's very little chance you'll see a free version of Torque 3D (except the demo) because we've decided that, unlike Unity, hobbling a low-priced version with a major feature delta is not good. It splinters development and the community. You're far more likely to see simplification and unification from the Torque lineup in the future. That and blazing fast, mind-blowing updates like what's coming in 1.1 :)

#11 @Ronny: There will be no competing with Torque 2D. Just wait and see.

#12

Quote:Any new tool set at more accessible prices is good for game development. I'm definitely happy to see Unity do this. It's great for the amateur and hobbyist crowd, particularly those with poor programming skills.

Definitely agree.

I've downloaded the free thingy just to see what all the fuss is about. The Unity forums seem to be abuzz with false information and venom about T3D ;P.

[Of course, there's probably just as much of that over here...]

Quote:What would have been really impressive and bold is an open source model.

I hope GG will be impressive and bold sometime soon... ;P

#13 @Daniel:

Quote:I hope GG will be impressive and bold sometime soon... ;P

When we can afford the risk, we'll definitely do it. Step 1 is getting this community working on a single technology so we can provide better support.

#14 I have read nothing about Unity's scene management like portals and zones. Are large indoors possible then? I guess Unity is capable to handle small games. But FPS and RPG?

Unfortunately GG says nothing about their own scene management of Torque3D. And the documentation is nothing to speak of.

#15 Sorry guys, but IMHO the new free Unity is a very serious pro-Indie movement. A lot of people will look inside it now, and let me tell you I think a good quantity of them will fall in love with it. Web games, PC games and Mac games can now be made for 0.00$ with just GIMP, Blender and Unity. Perfect combo both for PC and Mac. No source code, it is true. But everything works as expected (it has a good documentation) and you can do a lot of things in Unity just with scripting. Yes, even FPS and RPG games. Even MMOs... Just take a look at their game list.

I really think GG should begin thinking about releasing the future T3D artist version for free too. And better release it quickly ;)

#16

Quote:I'm really happy with Torque 3D's current pricing. In fact, I still think $1k is a crazy steal for the technology

Totally agree with you Brett, I remember the days of my modding with unreal engine2, looked at my creations and go "wow" only before I could realize that I can never afford 300.000usd, suddenly the wow effect turned sour. Now, the results I'm seeing with torque3d's renderer is even much better, I have the source code and it's "only" 1000 usd.

#17

Quote:Sorry guys, but IMHO the new free Unity is a very serious pro-Indie movement.

disagree, I think you mean hobbyist movement, and I think the Unity team will hope your wrong as well because they are hoping the free version will be nothing but a jumping point to pro.

Quote:A lot of people will look inside it now, and let me tell you I think a good quantity of them will fall in love with it.

Some will, but then, like I said the point of a free version has little to do with providing something for free.

Quote:No source code, it is true. But everything works as expected (it has a good documentation) and you can do a lot of things in Unity just with scripting. Yes, even FPS and RPG games. Even MMOs... Just take a look at their game list.

You will find their game list is rather small. You will also find 98% of active users are working on iphone projects and not much else. I'm not saying this as a negative, but to clarify from my point of view/what I've seen. Also, yes, you can do much with just scripting, and thats a good thing since thats your only choice, even though it's a poor way of doing many things.

Quote:I really think GG should begin thinking about releasing the future T3D artist version for free too. And better release it quickly ;)

People who really want to produce something with T3D are going to get it because of its features and ease of use. T3D has features not offered in Unity/Pro or most other "comparable" engines. There's always a buzz when something is given for free, especially in this case since Unity is a good project, but Unity doesn't threaten Torque whatsoever.

~LK~

#18 Andrew:
I can't complain that Unity is free now. I'll try it out and if i do find it good and interesting Garagegames would not get 1000USD from my limited savings, instead i would use 1500 to buy Unity Pro.

Another reason is that after talking with my teacher at my university and hearing him say how much the documentation at Garagegames sucks wasn't anything that made me more convinced to buy Torque.

#19 @Brett: I really appreciate your level approach. I find it quite troublesome the amount of misinformation and Torque3D/Unity bashing I see... it is important to keep an open mind and objectivity. I know that *some* of the choices Unity has made with their technology are good ones. That fact, doesn't trivialize anything Torque or make someone a traitor.

That kind of hostile environment is complete poison and should not be encouraged, if people working with your technology/company are valued.

A full source license to Torque 3D is a bargain... and incredibly powerful. One place where Torque can eat Unity's lunch is in third party developers and a very attractive EULA/development program.

#20
@Gustavo Munoz
Hehe... nice marketing they are doing there. With MMO you mean Fusion Fall, don't you? There's really not much this says about what it takes to make an MMO with Unity. You can be sure that the Fusion Fall development team did not have to use an off-the-shelve retail version of Unity and that they did not get the same level of support from the Unity developers that you will get as a "normal" customer.

In fact, the Unity developers were probably working closely with the FF developers.

When it comes to games that need a level of customization and fine-tuning such as MMOs, the source-included nature of Torque becomes an even stronger selling point than it already is.