Poll on Modelling Tools Used
by Tony Pitman · in Artist Corner · 10/21/2009 (2:00 pm) · 13 replies
I would like to take a poll on who uses what modelling tools. My goal is very simple. I am a software dev and can't afford an artist. I am willing to spend money on tools, but only if they will accomplish what I need.
What I need is the easiest and quickest tool chain that will allow me to do modelling with animation and bump map type textures. I have enough experience to understand that basics of how modelling works, but not the time to learn all the details to dig into the tools.
The most important part for me, and the one that I think most of the tool chains falls flat on, is once I have the model done getting it into TX3D and then being able to have the materials look right (including normal maps) and then being able to animate them inside the game.
It would be nice if I could simply create my model, apply my textures, set my animations and then export / save to some format in a folder in my Visual Studio XNA project, then write a small bit of code or better yet use the TX3D Editor to drop my models into that environment, and then write my game code.
I seem to spend so much time trying to figure out how to export and then how to program that materials or animations that my game is getting lost in the tools.
I didn't plan on this being a long post, but it ended up that way anyway....so the poll is please tell me about your tool chains from blank sheet of "paper" for a new model all the way to seeing it walk / fly / run / whatever in your game.
Remember I am using Torque X 3D for Indie and not the full Torque 3 thing.
What I need is the easiest and quickest tool chain that will allow me to do modelling with animation and bump map type textures. I have enough experience to understand that basics of how modelling works, but not the time to learn all the details to dig into the tools.
The most important part for me, and the one that I think most of the tool chains falls flat on, is once I have the model done getting it into TX3D and then being able to have the materials look right (including normal maps) and then being able to animate them inside the game.
It would be nice if I could simply create my model, apply my textures, set my animations and then export / save to some format in a folder in my Visual Studio XNA project, then write a small bit of code or better yet use the TX3D Editor to drop my models into that environment, and then write my game code.
I seem to spend so much time trying to figure out how to export and then how to program that materials or animations that my game is getting lost in the tools.
I didn't plan on this being a long post, but it ended up that way anyway....so the poll is please tell me about your tool chains from blank sheet of "paper" for a new model all the way to seeing it walk / fly / run / whatever in your game.
Remember I am using Torque X 3D for Indie and not the full Torque 3 thing.
#2
ModTool has native .x and the native Softimage DTS exporter works with ModTool 6.x and higher. From an export perspective the Softimage DTS automates most of the setup except for the actual Material.cs files which contain the shader setup for Torque X, TGEA, and T3D.
The material definition files for Torque Engines with shaders are simple text files and are easy to create manually, but automating the creation of the material definition files via the DTS exporter is something that I am working on for one of the next updates to the exporter.
10/22/2009 (5:17 pm)
If you have an XNA Creators Club membership ($99/year?) it gives you access to download and use Softimage ModTool Pro which can be used to create content for commercial games built using XNA. The regular version of Softimage ModTool is free but only for non-commercial use.ModTool has native .x and the native Softimage DTS exporter works with ModTool 6.x and higher. From an export perspective the Softimage DTS automates most of the setup except for the actual Material.cs files which contain the shader setup for Torque X, TGEA, and T3D.
The material definition files for Torque Engines with shaders are simple text files and are easy to create manually, but automating the creation of the material definition files via the DTS exporter is something that I am working on for one of the next updates to the exporter.
#3
I know you have worked and are working a lot to make the DTS exporter work and I thank you for that.
So where do I go to look at this Materials.cs file? I have heard it mentioned, but don't know what it is.
10/22/2009 (5:25 pm)
As you probably know from other postings I am trying to use XSI now and am just not getting some of the hoops to jump through. I was hoping for something easier, but maybe this is as easy as it gets and I just need to learn it until I know enough for it to be easy.I know you have worked and are working a lot to make the DTS exporter work and I thank you for that.
So where do I go to look at this Materials.cs file? I have heard it mentioned, but don't know what it is.
#4
10/22/2009 (5:46 pm)
Probably the best reference for the material definition is the TGEA material documentation.
#5
10/22/2009 (6:05 pm)
So do I have to use a materials.cs file if I want to use a normal map or can I just put in the ambocc, normal and surface images in XSI on the Phong.fx applied to a mesh and export using DTS exporter and it will just work?
#6
There are slight variations on the material defintion between Torque X TGEA and T3D. I believe that Torque X 3D uses the TGEA material markup.
10/22/2009 (6:30 pm)
Material properties (such as normal maps) are defined the material definition (material.cs) not in the DTS. All that is stored inside the DTS is the material name, all other material properties are configured in the material definition. This is that way shader based materials work with all flavors of Torque.There are slight variations on the material defintion between Torque X TGEA and T3D. I believe that Torque X 3D uses the TGEA material markup.
#7
I wonder why XSI isn't showing the normal stuff in its preview either.
10/22/2009 (6:53 pm)
So DTS ShowTool Pro won't be showing the normal stuff then, right? Or does it look for an parse a materials.cs file?I wonder why XSI isn't showing the normal stuff in its preview either.
#8
For normal maps to preview in Softimage you need to use the realtime preview using either OpenGL/DirectX. In Softimage the normal Texture Shaded and Texture Decal display modes do not preview normal maps.
You can also use the render region tool to see the effect of your normal maps in Softimage but that is actually rendered preview and not realtime. For realtime preview you'll need to use either the OpenGL/DirectX realtime display modes.
10/22/2009 (7:09 pm)
ShowTool Pro was written using TGE wich is does not support shaders. Feature wise the DTS shapes for TGE and TorqueX are identical but when it comes down to materials, that is where the differences are.For normal maps to preview in Softimage you need to use the realtime preview using either OpenGL/DirectX. In Softimage the normal Texture Shaded and Texture Decal display modes do not preview normal maps.
You can also use the render region tool to see the effect of your normal maps in Softimage but that is actually rendered preview and not realtime. For realtime preview you'll need to use either the OpenGL/DirectX realtime display modes.
#9
I will have to play around with XSI, however, because I am using the DX9 realtime mode to look at it and it is not showing any shading. Maybe I don't have the right kind of light or something. I have a direction light, but will have to check on its ambience setting.
10/22/2009 (7:25 pm)
Thanks for the clarification on that.I will have to play around with XSI, however, because I am using the DX9 realtime mode to look at it and it is not showing any shading. Maybe I don't have the right kind of light or something. I have a direction light, but will have to check on its ambience setting.
#10
I was looking into the material definition for TorqueX 3D since I haven't really used it. Looks like you have two options, you can define the material in XML or you can do it from code using classes such as SimpleMaterial, DetailMaterial and LightingMaterial. There is a Material editor in Torque X Builder 3D as well.
There is a section of the user manual for Softimage ModTool under the main category "Realtime Shaders" that covers working with OpenGL and DirectX shaders.
10/23/2009 (1:24 am)
@Tony: I am no TorqueX expert by any means, but the DTS features are essentially the same for all of the Torque engines.I was looking into the material definition for TorqueX 3D since I haven't really used it. Looks like you have two options, you can define the material in XML or you can do it from code using classes such as SimpleMaterial, DetailMaterial and LightingMaterial. There is a Material editor in Torque X Builder 3D as well.
There is a section of the user manual for Softimage ModTool under the main category "Realtime Shaders" that covers working with OpenGL and DirectX shaders.
#11
I have John's book and it talks about how to do it for 2D stuff, but not 3D. I haven't been able to find it in the X builder, but will look some more.
I also couldn't figure out how to make the LightningMaterial or DetailMaterial and then how to hook it to the object.
Could you point me to the pages in the docs that tell about this stuff? I couldn't find it for some reason. In the reference it doesn't show any examples of use and in the guides it doesn't mention the textures.
10/23/2009 (2:22 am)
Thanks Matt.I have John's book and it talks about how to do it for 2D stuff, but not 3D. I haven't been able to find it in the X builder, but will look some more.
I also couldn't figure out how to make the LightningMaterial or DetailMaterial and then how to hook it to the object.
Could you point me to the pages in the docs that tell about this stuff? I couldn't find it for some reason. In the reference it doesn't show any examples of use and in the guides it doesn't mention the textures.
#12
I would suggest that you use GLSL or CG shaders as DX9 viewport causes you to loose you viewport manipulators and the CG and OpenGL does not.
As for you lighting if you selects the shader and the open its PPG you have to select the lights and then tell it what XSI light to use. the lighting for realtime shaders are controlled in the shader not the the XSI lighting system.
10/23/2009 (4:35 pm)
Quote:
I will have to play around with XSI, however, because I am using the DX9 realtime mode to look at it and it is not showing any shading. Maybe I don't have the right kind of light or something. I have a direction light, but will have to check on its ambience setting.
I would suggest that you use GLSL or CG shaders as DX9 viewport causes you to loose you viewport manipulators and the CG and OpenGL does not.
As for you lighting if you selects the shader and the open its PPG you have to select the lights and then tell it what XSI light to use. the lighting for realtime shaders are controlled in the shader not the the XSI lighting system.
#13
I thought I had to use DX9 shaders?
Do your comments about the PPG and having to select the lights in the shader apply to DX9 as well? What page are they on? I looked around and can't find where you assign the lights. Details would help :-)
10/23/2009 (4:44 pm)
James: My target for the models is to export them using the DTS exporter and then use them in a Torque X 3D Builder game (note, not Torque 3D, but the X version for XNA).I thought I had to use DX9 shaders?
Do your comments about the PPG and having to select the lights in the shader apply to DX9 as well? What page are they on? I looked around and can't find where you assign the lights. Details would help :-)
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