Questions Regarding Upgrading my Art Programs
by J · in Artist Corner · 10/12/2009 (12:17 pm) · 8 replies
Right now I'm using Milkshape, UV Mapper Pro, GIMP/Photoshop. They work great and with some patience you can come up with some pretty sweet animations and models. But its just not looking as "cool" as I would like; I'm not a very good artist, but I'd like to find some software to make life a little easier. I would like to enhance my modeling apps and I'm wondering which software would best suite my needs.
As a starter to the bigger production apps for modeling. I think it would be wise to start with Houdini. Maybe not? Would 3DS Max or something be better?
Does Houdini import collada models? I heard Houdini has some really neat particle effects. Do these work with Torque easily or is there some frustration getting them in? What is everyone's overall opinion of Houdini? Houdini versus 3DS Max?
-I've used Calgari's TrueSpace and I really didn't like the interface. A lot to get used to and I got frustrated with it.
-I've used the 3DS demo, but I've never used 3DS Max or Maya. I've heard the two are converging? AutoDesk bought Maya? What's the diff between 3DS and 3DS Max. I like the interface on 3DS. A lot easier to use than TrueSpace(in my opinion). 3DS Max is lotta cash. Same with Maya. Opinions?
Texturing; this is what I'm really interested in. It has been recommended to me to use ZBrush by a college I took some classes with. I was wondering what people's opinions where regarding ZBrush? Do I have the ability to paint the model in 3D(realtime) and it exports a UV map automatically that works with no problem? or is there more to it than that? (of course the learning curve with the software). Also I've heard of MudBox that works with 3DS Max. Any opinions on this? Any other software I should be looking at?
The ability to paint the models in realtime with out having to mess with the UV maps would be handy!
Animation. Is Houdini comparable to 3DS/3DS Max with animations? Is there any other software for animation that I should be looking at? Cost versus ease of use and such? Is there any animation software that works directly with Torque products? Possibly look into TrueBones? Pros and cons of TrueBones? I've heard of plugins for 3DS Max for animation and charater creation. What are some of these? I've never seen any names for them. And if they are what I'm thinking; do they work well with Torque?
-Poser? I've heard bad things about Poser. Too high poly and too basic animations. Don't work well with Torque and are a pain to setup.
Misc: I've also looking to vegetation rendering software. SpeedTree, Onyx, Real Tree, 3DS Max Plugin (exlevel) GrowFX. First off, what works good/ looks good, with low poly counts? LOD? I also want to make sure it will work with Sickhead's Forest Kit. Will the forest kit itself come with a tree creation addition?
EDIT: I'd also like to make sure that any software will work with all the new Torque products. pureLIGHT, forest kit, etc...
So all in all, 3DS Max looks like a pretty good overall solution. But very pricey. I guess I'm asking what would everyone think the best software to use to the whole modeling to playing a game with; in Toque? Characters/Monsters? Vegetation?
Any information would be really helpful. Thanks in advance!
J
As a starter to the bigger production apps for modeling. I think it would be wise to start with Houdini. Maybe not? Would 3DS Max or something be better?
Does Houdini import collada models? I heard Houdini has some really neat particle effects. Do these work with Torque easily or is there some frustration getting them in? What is everyone's overall opinion of Houdini? Houdini versus 3DS Max?
-I've used Calgari's TrueSpace and I really didn't like the interface. A lot to get used to and I got frustrated with it.
-I've used the 3DS demo, but I've never used 3DS Max or Maya. I've heard the two are converging? AutoDesk bought Maya? What's the diff between 3DS and 3DS Max. I like the interface on 3DS. A lot easier to use than TrueSpace(in my opinion). 3DS Max is lotta cash. Same with Maya. Opinions?
Texturing; this is what I'm really interested in. It has been recommended to me to use ZBrush by a college I took some classes with. I was wondering what people's opinions where regarding ZBrush? Do I have the ability to paint the model in 3D(realtime) and it exports a UV map automatically that works with no problem? or is there more to it than that? (of course the learning curve with the software). Also I've heard of MudBox that works with 3DS Max. Any opinions on this? Any other software I should be looking at?
The ability to paint the models in realtime with out having to mess with the UV maps would be handy!
Animation. Is Houdini comparable to 3DS/3DS Max with animations? Is there any other software for animation that I should be looking at? Cost versus ease of use and such? Is there any animation software that works directly with Torque products? Possibly look into TrueBones? Pros and cons of TrueBones? I've heard of plugins for 3DS Max for animation and charater creation. What are some of these? I've never seen any names for them. And if they are what I'm thinking; do they work well with Torque?
-Poser? I've heard bad things about Poser. Too high poly and too basic animations. Don't work well with Torque and are a pain to setup.
Misc: I've also looking to vegetation rendering software. SpeedTree, Onyx, Real Tree, 3DS Max Plugin (exlevel) GrowFX. First off, what works good/ looks good, with low poly counts? LOD? I also want to make sure it will work with Sickhead's Forest Kit. Will the forest kit itself come with a tree creation addition?
EDIT: I'd also like to make sure that any software will work with all the new Torque products. pureLIGHT, forest kit, etc...
So all in all, 3DS Max looks like a pretty good overall solution. But very pricey. I guess I'm asking what would everyone think the best software to use to the whole modeling to playing a game with; in Toque? Characters/Monsters? Vegetation?
Any information would be really helpful. Thanks in advance!
J
About the author
I used to be obsessed with building my own open-ended RPG and a 3D Side Scroller RPG. But the job/house/girlfriend got in the way. I know, I know. Now I concentrate on doing architectural renderings (with the help of T3D of course) and VBA programming.
#2
Actually that is the purpose of these questions. I have a lady from PETEX interested in me doing some freelance work. They require a pretty high tech portfolio which I just don't have at this time. (this being only my second job modeling/animating) They also haven't specified a desired work environment, so I'm assuming 3DS Max; considering the nature of the work. So I was going to upgrade my software instead of using cheaper software and "half-a$$ing it" Plus I need get inline with the tech. and advance for my own gaming endevour.
It seems like Houdini could really do all I need, and no more than I'm making at these animations, I probably could get buy without having to get the commercial license. The only thing I would be looking at is a way to improve on my UV Mapping/Texturing. I do seriously have a heck of a time with this. That's why the poly-paint feature of ZBrush seemed so appealing. I understand you have to model in something else and then load the UVs into ZBrush. But then you have a 3D model you can rotate and move to paint; then export out to be used on the model? I hope my understanding on this is correct? Any other programs you know of that can do this?
10/12/2009 (4:32 pm)
Thanks for the Info Logan!Actually that is the purpose of these questions. I have a lady from PETEX interested in me doing some freelance work. They require a pretty high tech portfolio which I just don't have at this time. (this being only my second job modeling/animating) They also haven't specified a desired work environment, so I'm assuming 3DS Max; considering the nature of the work. So I was going to upgrade my software instead of using cheaper software and "half-a$$ing it" Plus I need get inline with the tech. and advance for my own gaming endevour.
It seems like Houdini could really do all I need, and no more than I'm making at these animations, I probably could get buy without having to get the commercial license. The only thing I would be looking at is a way to improve on my UV Mapping/Texturing. I do seriously have a heck of a time with this. That's why the poly-paint feature of ZBrush seemed so appealing. I understand you have to model in something else and then load the UVs into ZBrush. But then you have a 3D model you can rotate and move to paint; then export out to be used on the model? I hope my understanding on this is correct? Any other programs you know of that can do this?
#3
IMHO the best thing to do with projection painting is use them in hybrid with something like Photoshop if you want to get the best results.
10/12/2009 (7:29 pm)
Mudbox, 3D Coat, Deep Paint and loads of other applications can do the ability of 3D projection painting. Its useful, but I find that a lot of people overrate its usefulness. These tools are just that, tools. They wont instantly allow you to produce amazing work that you couldnt do in 2D and if anything can actually give you some rather ugly results if you arent experianced with UVWs or painting textures.IMHO the best thing to do with projection painting is use them in hybrid with something like Photoshop if you want to get the best results.
#4
By the way, depending on which version of Photshop you have, you can actually view your 3D model in Photoshop. I believe CS3 and above, you can load in 3D models into photoshop. I don't use this tool very often, but it's nice to know it's there. =P
UVing is not something that will get easier, the only thing you can do is make a lot of models and practice. UVing is one of the big humps when learning to 3D model. It's a hump for a reason, it's very important. There are not any magic tools that will UV for you, though there are pelting tools that will speed things up. But you still have to have a good understanding of UVing, because even pelting isn't a perfect process... The best thing you can do is practice UVing with a good toolset, which 3DS, Maya, and houdini all have good UV tools. Good UVing is just understanding the basic theories behind UVing, like stretching, and applying them to your techniques.
10/12/2009 (8:01 pm)
Yea, Logan is right. Zbrush and Mudbox are cool for creating normal maps, and loosely painting your textures. But when it comes to painting some good textures, Photoshop is really your best bet. It's actually easier to use Photoshop to create fine detailed textures on your UV's.By the way, depending on which version of Photshop you have, you can actually view your 3D model in Photoshop. I believe CS3 and above, you can load in 3D models into photoshop. I don't use this tool very often, but it's nice to know it's there. =P
UVing is not something that will get easier, the only thing you can do is make a lot of models and practice. UVing is one of the big humps when learning to 3D model. It's a hump for a reason, it's very important. There are not any magic tools that will UV for you, though there are pelting tools that will speed things up. But you still have to have a good understanding of UVing, because even pelting isn't a perfect process... The best thing you can do is practice UVing with a good toolset, which 3DS, Maya, and houdini all have good UV tools. Good UVing is just understanding the basic theories behind UVing, like stretching, and applying them to your techniques.
#5
"Pratice makes perfect."
I purchased Houdini HD last night from the GG website. I'm impressed with the particle effects. Did a few of the video tuts, I'll have to dig on it all week and get a handle on it. Kind of frustrating how slow it is though. And when you go to render it locks up. Errr... Need to get used to it/figure it out.
Have you guys personally used both 3DS and Houdini? Could you throw out some pros and cons that you've found? Same with all the software that's been mentioned. I'm still interested. I can splurg for 99 bucks. But getting into the higher priced software could be a little tricky. Plus there's the learning curve on each, which programs are easy to learn? Which programs will give you the edge of producing detailed models of say...like industrial equipment, but still able to produce nice low poly models for games? If you've had Houdini and 3DS/3DS Max. Which did you use more? Which did you prefer?
Animations: is the node based movements that you can do in Houdini make it easier to animate? say than the way you animate in Milkshape. Can you use BVH files in Houdini? How does all this compare to Max/Maya?
More info would be helpful to curb my lack of knowledge. Thanks for all the help guys!
10/13/2009 (1:42 pm)
I did not know you could load your 3D models in photoshop. Cool. I have CS3, I will look into that. I've only had to UV five characters (only two that were very complex), plus weapons and such; and most of the other projects I've done have been more like Constructor; that is, this texture on this primitive, put it all together to make it look good. Well, I'll keep working at it until I get some satisfactory results. "Pratice makes perfect."
I purchased Houdini HD last night from the GG website. I'm impressed with the particle effects. Did a few of the video tuts, I'll have to dig on it all week and get a handle on it. Kind of frustrating how slow it is though. And when you go to render it locks up. Errr... Need to get used to it/figure it out.
Have you guys personally used both 3DS and Houdini? Could you throw out some pros and cons that you've found? Same with all the software that's been mentioned. I'm still interested. I can splurg for 99 bucks. But getting into the higher priced software could be a little tricky. Plus there's the learning curve on each, which programs are easy to learn? Which programs will give you the edge of producing detailed models of say...like industrial equipment, but still able to produce nice low poly models for games? If you've had Houdini and 3DS/3DS Max. Which did you use more? Which did you prefer?
Animations: is the node based movements that you can do in Houdini make it easier to animate? say than the way you animate in Milkshape. Can you use BVH files in Houdini? How does all this compare to Max/Maya?
More info would be helpful to curb my lack of knowledge. Thanks for all the help guys!
#6
10/16/2009 (2:44 pm)
pureLIGHT will work with .ASE or Collada files so no worries there. We support all the major 3D applications and have tested pureLIGHT with them. 
#8
I use Z-brush only to create my models for Torque. The only thing I use softimage for is to rig, skin, and animate.
My workflow goes like this
Z-brush
-Model Z-spheres
-Retopo to Lower Poly
-Sculpt Features (Now with HD sculpting you can get as crazy as you want with Detail)
-UV Unwrap (Newest feature that is going to change doing UVs forever!!!)
-Paint Texture Maps
-OBJ export to Softimage
Softimage
-Rig
-Skin
-Animate
-Export to Torque
Another thing to note is the price of Z-brush is low plus you get all upgrades for free!!! Autodesk couldn’t touch that with a 10 foot pole. In my opinion Z-brush is a must have for any artist. I’m not getting paid by Pixologic but am just a fanboy of their software and business model.
03/30/2010 (11:02 am)
The current Z-brush 3.5 now does UV unwrap with UV Master. You can even define polygroups and unwrap based on those groups. Plus it does it in a couple of seconds. Go check it out on the feature page.I use Z-brush only to create my models for Torque. The only thing I use softimage for is to rig, skin, and animate.
My workflow goes like this
Z-brush
-Model Z-spheres
-Retopo to Lower Poly
-Sculpt Features (Now with HD sculpting you can get as crazy as you want with Detail)
-UV Unwrap (Newest feature that is going to change doing UVs forever!!!)
-Paint Texture Maps
-OBJ export to Softimage
Softimage
-Rig
-Skin
-Animate
-Export to Torque
Another thing to note is the price of Z-brush is low plus you get all upgrades for free!!! Autodesk couldn’t touch that with a 10 foot pole. In my opinion Z-brush is a must have for any artist. I’m not getting paid by Pixologic but am just a fanboy of their software and business model.
Associate Logan Foster
perPixel Studios
Max & Maya (& SoftImage) Converging... this is a lie. Trust me I have talked to execs at Autodesk who have confirmed with me that there are no plans to merge these applications together. Each app stands as its own product and will continue to do so, the only difference is that theyre sharing tech and manpower more now behind the scenes in R&D.
As for boutique applications like Zbrush or Mudbox. Theyre both industry standards for sculpting high detail models. I honestly wouldnt say one is more critical than the other at this time. Try them both, use what you like best. They both work exceptionally well with all of the leading 3D applications on the market.
With regards to texturing with Zbrush or Mudbox. While you can do projection painting with them to make bitmap images, this isnt a "be all, end all feature", if anything its actually a complementary feature thats useful for adding some extra detail in. You will still need a good 2D application to help finish off the job and enhance your workflow/productivity. Also it should be noted that neither application auto-generates UVWs, they simply use the data that theyre provided with.
As for animation tools taht work with Torque, well anything out of the box that comes with your 3D application works great! You do not need to go and buy an extra tool to do animations for Torque, that to me is a silly waste of money (unless you are doing Motion Capture). As an example in 3DS Max you have the following options: Bones, dummies, other shapes, IK, Biped/CharacterStudio, CAT and even a mixture of all of the above right out of the box for Torque animations. They all work great.