Argghh...

#21 @ deepscratch:
you would only need to put the userid in the toolbox, and as we dont get the sourcecode to that anyway, where would be the issue? I'm not saying lock up the Sourcecode! merely the toolbox (which already is)

it would be in effect a watermark... If some foolhardy guy uploads their Installer they arent going to strip out the toolbox, chances are it would get overlooked.

Besides arent you meant to use the "package" feature, to publish to web etc? thats all in the toolbox and closed source isnt it? Therefore needed?

@deadm4n: it does suck that someone stooped that low to do such a thing, my fear is that this disaudes GG to put so much love and devotion into future releases if they know its going to be ripped off...

#22

Quote:also look at how ** does his licencing for *****, he takes your pc's unique id, that you generate from a script, and generates a number that will only work as a key for that pc, if you want it on another pc, you need a new number, and need to ask for it, from your email that you used to register with....

That is not how the license is generated and I would appreciate that the remark be removed.

Yes I do generate a license by email but you should really do some research before posting "specifics" of the situation. I find your explanation of my doit! licensing system to be mere conjecture, not to mention it is false as well.

information:
usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/ps/item?siteID=123112&id=5582382&linkID=92...

..this concept of 'hardwarelockid-email licensing' is not meant for "multi-thousands" of users. - It is meant for a low count of users and was near common practice in the maxscripting community(until max2010[now defunct]). I have 68 users to keep track of..I like the system for that user count. I never expected 1000 users nor 68 TBH. I thought 20 or 30.

About the control of it all:
- If you have a legal max version, then your serial remains constant and so does your hardwarelockid(even on a new computer) and so does your doit! license. There are things that can cause a change in a hardwarelockid but I won't get into that here.... If you are not informed on this, the information is out there.
To add:
The Doit! license agreement states certain things that allow me to deny a persons license tranfer to a new system or an OS reinstall due to their use of an illegal max installation(there are a few ways of determining this). The license agreement was not meant to be "read into" as so you could analyze how everything works..(if that is how any determination was erected). It was/is meant to protect me from having to distribute multiple licenses to illegal max users, which of course, I simply prefer to not do. blah blah blah...boring boring boring.

too long of a post, sorry about that but I felt the need to explain.

#23 Almost forgot:
oh yeah, and wtf on the pirating ? ..let's go hunt'em down!

#24 my apologies eb,
the post has been edited.

#25 Thank you deepscratch. I appreciate it.

#26 Will someone please think of the children?

#27 Has anyone taken the liberty of writing down the IP address of the folks pirating, and comparing them to GG Records?

let me clarify, write down the ip address of the varies threads, then monitor the GG servers for folks logging in to the varies threads and such. should be as a simple as using the find command, and then comparing the finger prints of the ip which is unique to each computer. there are a few ways around it, but the average pirate doesnt care about that.

#28 Hey guys. I can't believe this is happening so early to Torque 3D. Made me really angry, so I did search to find le culprit (LOL).

Here's what I found:

It has been uploaded by someone who goes by the internet nick "CodyFromHell". I got that from other sites that reference the uploaded file. He's somewhere between 19 and 24 years of age. He's from Dallas, Tx. His real name seems to be Cody Garrett.

Going through lots of data over the web, and taking lots of notes of his preferences, friends, interests, I ended up with one suspect (details removed)

This is solely my opinion, but I think this is who we're looking for. He's probably not a Torque 3D licensee, but someone close to him might be. Going through his friends list might yield some results, but I don't have the licensee list.

#29 The idea is when the download link is ready,the server should attach a specific id of each instalation.
This way GG will find where the problem is.

I think the idea of logging on the server,adding username/password is not good,because a lot users work offline.

#30 Ohhhhh now there is even a witch hunting!

#31 I know this may be a bit overboard, and it doesn't get rid of pirating totally, but it would reduce it dramatically. Why not create a computer authorization feature? For instance, as soon as you install Torque3D, you have a few days, or you can set this to immediately, to authorize it (over the Internet) or all features will locked. Authorizing requires a userID and password, but there is a computer authorization limit. The computer authorization limit could be set to let's say...2 computers, which means I can install Torque3D on 2 computers at any given time.

These authorized computers can also be reset (or cleared) - in case of a crashed computer, etc...

So, back to why this would help prevent pirating would be that if somebody gives out their userID and password for authorizing, it will only allow 2 people at any given time to access Torque3D. There are of course loopholes in this as in any DRM, but let me know what you think about it - I'd be happy to help on this.

EDIT

I just saw eb's post (that's what I get for not reading everything, hah). He sort of has the same kind of method.

#32 I just emailed Brett some of my discoveries. Just like Konrad I did some detective work of my own, recognized a username (he changed his name here, but I remember it), and even found what appears to be someone from the "testing group" who leaked the last release.

And after reading some of the comments, in an undisclosed forum, pertaining to Torque 3D and the clamor for more mirrors and other Torque related products I find the whole thing disheartening.

I don't really care for or like the idea of DRM, which would be a last resort in my opinion, but the idea of attaching a specific user Id to each download package for tracking purposes seems reasonable and would help... but could probably be easily worked around.

The idea of logging in, automatic or not, is a bad one for me. So is the idea of locking an installation to one computer. Travelling on a tour bus means I never know when I'll be able to get online. I always have a laptop with me when the band is on the road, and do maintain a nice working rig at home too... so only being able to use one computer to do my Torque related work on just isn't feasible to me.

#33 well each loggin to download a new sdk is recorded in some form or fashion by default, its just a matter of storing it and having it for reference. the problem is that folks dont want to have a DRM, but there is a few bad apples that have forced pretty much ever GG product to be released for free. Its a case why the private forums and such shouldnt have been opened up in the first place. True it had a bit of positive effect in some areas, but most of the TGEA stuff and source is now also totally upgradable to t3d. Which is their new candy.

doesnt someone monitor who has access to the servers? this would seem like a standard practice when you start selling 1000$ pieces of software, not to mention all the attached software that folks are planning on releasing in the future. This is totally dishearting. But what do you do, allow a few folks to get away with it. Lock the doors tight? Maybe move TGE to the free section for folks that want to try it. And lock up the TGEA and T3d stuff items with some security? Stop the piracy before it even begins, but still give out the some tidbits, there isnt any reason to allow this kinda stuff to continue and letting thousands of dollars just fly out the window when you read the blogs it seems that everyone is upset about the loss of money, since it affects everyones livelyhood.

I see a few GG employees totally speaking up. Lets see some solutions, since what ever is decided, should totally not be released in this thread, regardless of the suggestions for security purposes. Lets catch these pirates please and move on. Prevention is the key to security, its my number one rule when i was a Security Manager for a company here in Winnipeg.

#34 @Novack: This is not a witch hunt. I really want the one who's responsible for this to be unable to do this with the release version, and I hope that's nothing I should be ashamed of.

I wouldn't have shared his details if I wasn't sure it was him. But that's just me, as I expressed.

Unfortunately, I couldn't track him as far as Michael could. Maybe we're not even tracking the same person. I shared his details, so others might come up with further details that stand with or against my suspicion.

#35 C'mon guys, this is totally ridiculous. What are you going to do if someone elses use torrent or any other p2p network?

There is so much futile shock and indignation for something so freaking common, as to have software distributed over internet without permission. Everybody on this thread threw up their hands in horror, which is per se something funny, but now are trying to impersonate Columbo, which can be as dangerous as a waste of time.

Little time ago, when making all the forums public, Mich Perry came with one of the more intelligent statements that can be said about this:

Quote:I can say this: Don't worry about the pirates. It's always been easy to spot them, even without the web team's awesome icon integration. If someone is asking about source code and doesn't have a Torque symbol, e-mail one of us and they will be banned. Let's be real, too. 99% of game dev pirates barely know how to run an executable. Do you think they will really figure out how to create even a simple demo? Nah...don't think so.

There are lurkers on our site that sit around and purchase our engines just to torrent them, and there's not much we can do to stop that. It will only be a problem when those pirates come to our site looking for free help for an engine they did not pay for. We are now ready for that, so have no mercy on them =)

#36 Nod, I agree with you Novack on a few levels, but occasionally catching a pirate individual and hanging him out as a example... usually serves a purpose. Personally, its almost as fun as game development to track folks that have pissed me off. The internet is a wonderful tool.

#37 The good news is sharing Torque is nothing:
- the pirates can not use it
- they do not understand even what is shared
- if somebody does,he can not sell his product and he will buy T3D later

So there is nothing to worry about.

#38 You guys are probably right, it just stikes me too personally. Excuse me for the emotional outburst, I probably should take a day or two off.

I have removed the details of the one I'm suspicious of.

#39 Meh ... jerks will be jerks, it was always going to happen. Piracy is inevitable ... but it doesn't mean that people using it are going to profit in anyway.

No one who swipes stuff is going to ever produce anything, the exec'll sit on their HD, they'll look at it embaffled, realise there is no Make My Game Button, and then delete the damn thing to free up space for storing more porn/spam/memes.

screw 'em. Back to game creation.

#40

Quote:He's from Dallas, Tx.

If i need to go to someones house and break legs let me know.

I'd love to see the look on their face when a developer of the product they're stealing is stomping on him.

Still... Novak, Steve, and others are right.

In the end maybe a handful of people that were really able to purchase T3D legitimately and will actually use it will take the time to find a pirate copy and not pay for it.

But not to let out the dirty secret, but most people who have purchased Torque/Unity/C4/Blade3D... and thats hundereds of thousands of people... never shipped a game with the engine they purchased.

So casual/recreational users are a huge part of the revenue stream in the indie engine market.

To me the key is offering a compelling reason for those really wanting to use T3D and inclined to pirate it to purchase it legitimately. As Brett put it we need to 'add value' in a way that cannot be pirated. To me for longest time that has been this community.... keeping the engine forums and resources private.