Shadowbane, what a computer game shouldn't be
by Pat Wilson · in General Discussion · 03/26/2003 (4:21 pm) · 31 replies
Today I picked up a $40 case study in what not to do when making a game. After 4 hours of playing Shadowbane I have this to say...
The only reason I can see that this game got released was Ubi said, "Allright you bastards, we've been shelling out for years now, release so we can recoop some of the losses, btw we own you now."
This game is the biggest piece of shit game I have ever played. Anarchy Online, at release, was pretty piss poor, but this takes the cake. The UI is miserable, the framerates abominable for the rendering quality. The controls are damn near impossible, pathing is deplorable (You think you're getting across that bridge? Yeah right...). It is so user-un-friendly any poor fool who picks it up without having played EQ, AC, DAoC and then been in Shadowbane beta for 5 months will be hopelessly lost. The "help" system's tips are almost entirely useless. The HUD mostly gets in the way, it has an amazing quanitity of useless and repeated information displayed in a form that is not only displeasing to the eye but almost always in the wrong place when you need to see it. Equipping your character is confusing as hell, "Hey why can't I wear sleeves!? Oh, that's because you have a tunic on, but it doesn't tell you that." Grouping has reverted to EQ v1.0 days where you sit and yell 'Rogue lfg, rogue lfg'. The abilities are difficult to use, and the game provides no help as to what you should go about doing.
As far as gameplay goes, it is in stiff competition with watching paint dry for entertainment. It has all the excitement of camping the FBSS, mixed with graphics that almost challenge Quake II. The music drones on, the sound effects are pathetic and that god damn spellcasting chant is the same for every spell for every race and it is so annoying. The spell effects themselves would make any avid mage want to burn his books and pick up a sword except that, well, that's not more interesting either. There's none of the neat animations or reactive-styles ala DAoC. It's back to the days of hit autoattack, backstab, backstab, backstab, sit, etc. The text displays are very difficult to use, you cannot filter information such as the 10 other people around you hitting things out. The font is too big, if you decrease the size it is too small. The fonts they provide are far too complex save for two, to use at all. Then there is the fantastic subject of getting around. Running, and running, and running. Is there auto-run? No. You click on a little map. In fact, to even find a hunting area as a clueless newbie can take 10 minutes. The terrain is confusing, dark and repedative. The textures are bland, the animations are bairly passable for a AAA title, the particle effects: pathetic. Character customization is reduced below what EQ had. There is one face, sure you can add a beard that looks totally out of place, customize the hair, but there is one face. The runestone system is overcomplicated. Abilities are convoluted. The stamina/run system is tedious, irritating, and complicates travel in an already near impossible to travel in world.
The claim, I would guess, is that after level 20 the game gets fun because the same bullshit UI, spellcasting, combat, navigation gets pitted against people who are using the same lame-as-hell client. Hurray! Another PvP based game. That will be fun for probably much less time than DAoC. From the looks of it, the PvP will have all the splendor of EQ based PvP with all the longevity of a robed caster AFK, sitting down in Emain Macha (DAoC).
This is a completly miserable, poorly implimented joke of a game that went way over time budget, way over monitary budget, way overboard on features, and way overboard on hype. If I know anything about the gaming industry this was a game that originally was a good idea. It got poorly managed, feature-creaped, and executivly-refactored into the steaming pile of walrus dung it is today. The studio that made it will be kept alive as long as they have to put out patches. Ubi will make their money and the players will sit for a year in a completly miserable game waiting for it to be fixed. It's only compatability is Mac, in a world where game engines can easily go Win/Mac/Linux. Just in case I haven't made myself absolutly-clear...THERE IS NOTHING GOOD ABOUT THIS GAME.
Lesson 1: Go Indy.
Lesson 2: Don't make a MMO-anything
The only reason I can see that this game got released was Ubi said, "Allright you bastards, we've been shelling out for years now, release so we can recoop some of the losses, btw we own you now."
This game is the biggest piece of shit game I have ever played. Anarchy Online, at release, was pretty piss poor, but this takes the cake. The UI is miserable, the framerates abominable for the rendering quality. The controls are damn near impossible, pathing is deplorable (You think you're getting across that bridge? Yeah right...). It is so user-un-friendly any poor fool who picks it up without having played EQ, AC, DAoC and then been in Shadowbane beta for 5 months will be hopelessly lost. The "help" system's tips are almost entirely useless. The HUD mostly gets in the way, it has an amazing quanitity of useless and repeated information displayed in a form that is not only displeasing to the eye but almost always in the wrong place when you need to see it. Equipping your character is confusing as hell, "Hey why can't I wear sleeves!? Oh, that's because you have a tunic on, but it doesn't tell you that." Grouping has reverted to EQ v1.0 days where you sit and yell 'Rogue lfg, rogue lfg'. The abilities are difficult to use, and the game provides no help as to what you should go about doing.
As far as gameplay goes, it is in stiff competition with watching paint dry for entertainment. It has all the excitement of camping the FBSS, mixed with graphics that almost challenge Quake II. The music drones on, the sound effects are pathetic and that god damn spellcasting chant is the same for every spell for every race and it is so annoying. The spell effects themselves would make any avid mage want to burn his books and pick up a sword except that, well, that's not more interesting either. There's none of the neat animations or reactive-styles ala DAoC. It's back to the days of hit autoattack, backstab, backstab, backstab, sit, etc. The text displays are very difficult to use, you cannot filter information such as the 10 other people around you hitting things out. The font is too big, if you decrease the size it is too small. The fonts they provide are far too complex save for two, to use at all. Then there is the fantastic subject of getting around. Running, and running, and running. Is there auto-run? No. You click on a little map. In fact, to even find a hunting area as a clueless newbie can take 10 minutes. The terrain is confusing, dark and repedative. The textures are bland, the animations are bairly passable for a AAA title, the particle effects: pathetic. Character customization is reduced below what EQ had. There is one face, sure you can add a beard that looks totally out of place, customize the hair, but there is one face. The runestone system is overcomplicated. Abilities are convoluted. The stamina/run system is tedious, irritating, and complicates travel in an already near impossible to travel in world.
The claim, I would guess, is that after level 20 the game gets fun because the same bullshit UI, spellcasting, combat, navigation gets pitted against people who are using the same lame-as-hell client. Hurray! Another PvP based game. That will be fun for probably much less time than DAoC. From the looks of it, the PvP will have all the splendor of EQ based PvP with all the longevity of a robed caster AFK, sitting down in Emain Macha (DAoC).
This is a completly miserable, poorly implimented joke of a game that went way over time budget, way over monitary budget, way overboard on features, and way overboard on hype. If I know anything about the gaming industry this was a game that originally was a good idea. It got poorly managed, feature-creaped, and executivly-refactored into the steaming pile of walrus dung it is today. The studio that made it will be kept alive as long as they have to put out patches. Ubi will make their money and the players will sit for a year in a completly miserable game waiting for it to be fixed. It's only compatability is Mac, in a world where game engines can easily go Win/Mac/Linux. Just in case I haven't made myself absolutly-clear...THERE IS NOTHING GOOD ABOUT THIS GAME.
Lesson 1: Go Indy.
Lesson 2: Don't make a MMO-anything
About the author
#22
I still haven't forgiven them for publishing pools of radiance, which refused to work and then deleted my hard drive. I kid you not. It's on my shelf next to 'battlecruiser' and 'ultima9', games that I've never actually been able to play.
I too bought shadowbane, I wasn't amused. It just sucks. In a 'you'll never fix it sucks' kind of way. My p4 runs quake2 at like 250fps at 1600x1200, I was getting at times 20fps in shadowbane. 20. I suppose it takes a lot of cpu to produce that much suck at once. The newbie areas were like ground zero at a train crash; people wandering in all directions shouting 'OMG THIS SUCKS' and 'I'M NOT PAYING FOR THIS'.
03/30/2003 (11:47 am)
ubisoft hits another home run.I still haven't forgiven them for publishing pools of radiance, which refused to work and then deleted my hard drive. I kid you not. It's on my shelf next to 'battlecruiser' and 'ultima9', games that I've never actually been able to play.
I too bought shadowbane, I wasn't amused. It just sucks. In a 'you'll never fix it sucks' kind of way. My p4 runs quake2 at like 250fps at 1600x1200, I was getting at times 20fps in shadowbane. 20. I suppose it takes a lot of cpu to produce that much suck at once. The newbie areas were like ground zero at a train crash; people wandering in all directions shouting 'OMG THIS SUCKS' and 'I'M NOT PAYING FOR THIS'.
#23
Specially this: "I suppose it takes a lot of cpu to produce that much suck at once"!
My action game will have a bad-reviewer boss in the final level. Who wants to pose as model?
03/30/2003 (2:12 pm)
Lol and Lol until tomorrow morning everyone!Specially this: "I suppose it takes a lot of cpu to produce that much suck at once"!
My action game will have a bad-reviewer boss in the final level. Who wants to pose as model?
#24
The forum I frequent seems to rather enjoy Shadowbane. This is TribalWar, and if you knows these guys at all they are probably the harshest bunch of gamers I have come across, they are not afraid to say something sucks. Yet, despite some of Shadowbanes flaws, that they have pointed out, they seem to enjoy the game.
03/30/2003 (3:00 pm)
Funny,The forum I frequent seems to rather enjoy Shadowbane. This is TribalWar, and if you knows these guys at all they are probably the harshest bunch of gamers I have come across, they are not afraid to say something sucks. Yet, despite some of Shadowbanes flaws, that they have pointed out, they seem to enjoy the game.
#25
www.flipcode.com/cgi-bin/msg.cgi?showThread=00001058&forum=industry&id=-1
The above attitudes are why, in my opinion, games are stagnating. In a forum that is supposed(?) to be for people to get teams together, the professionals(????) on the forum instead come up with the dreariest, most demotivational, and elitist FAQ on creating your own game. I came across it after reading a person getting flamed for saying that they would not want someone on their team who had a bad motivational attitude because it brings the rest of the team down. He was accused of having anger management issues. WTF?
And these are self-described "professionals", who flame just about every indie the same way: (generic flame) "You want me to give up two years of my life to bring *your* game to life?"
And these are the same people who bring us flop after flop. I think I'm starting to see the connection to why Shadowbane failed, and the attitude of some people. I'll be careful to state that not all pro's are elitist-most likely just a small and overly-vocal faction, but even those who don't come off as elitist flaming snobs on that forum are very adamant that nothing can be done without money.
I just don't buy that one bit. I don't buy that we need to spend millions and work 20 hour days for months to put out something great of ANY genre. I don't buy that we have to be "professional" or "be in the industry for years" before we can attempt our dream. Hell, I wasn't raised to buy into that kind of cowardice. That kind of self-defeating attitude is what I think is one of the symptoms of what leads to games like Shadowbane. It's that kind of complacent "don't strive or you could fail" mentality that is dragging good ideas down and propping up bad ones.
It's the gaming industries version of agorophobia(sp?), which is the fear of going outside or being in public. It's nice and safe inside your house, but after a while, the fear of getting out of the house will cause you to stagnate and do so much more harm than good.
Just a thought...
03/31/2003 (2:56 pm)
www.flipcode.com/cgi-bin/msg.cgi?showThread=00001058&forum=industry&id=-1
The above attitudes are why, in my opinion, games are stagnating. In a forum that is supposed(?) to be for people to get teams together, the professionals(????) on the forum instead come up with the dreariest, most demotivational, and elitist FAQ on creating your own game. I came across it after reading a person getting flamed for saying that they would not want someone on their team who had a bad motivational attitude because it brings the rest of the team down. He was accused of having anger management issues. WTF?
And these are self-described "professionals", who flame just about every indie the same way: (generic flame) "You want me to give up two years of my life to bring *your* game to life?"
And these are the same people who bring us flop after flop. I think I'm starting to see the connection to why Shadowbane failed, and the attitude of some people. I'll be careful to state that not all pro's are elitist-most likely just a small and overly-vocal faction, but even those who don't come off as elitist flaming snobs on that forum are very adamant that nothing can be done without money.
I just don't buy that one bit. I don't buy that we need to spend millions and work 20 hour days for months to put out something great of ANY genre. I don't buy that we have to be "professional" or "be in the industry for years" before we can attempt our dream. Hell, I wasn't raised to buy into that kind of cowardice. That kind of self-defeating attitude is what I think is one of the symptoms of what leads to games like Shadowbane. It's that kind of complacent "don't strive or you could fail" mentality that is dragging good ideas down and propping up bad ones.
It's the gaming industries version of agorophobia(sp?), which is the fear of going outside or being in public. It's nice and safe inside your house, but after a while, the fear of getting out of the house will cause you to stagnate and do so much more harm than good.
Just a thought...
#26
But for now, I'll stick to my plans and work on what I can while providing my true words as advice to those who would rather overlook us.
Good luck to you as well. :)
- Chris
03/31/2003 (3:59 pm)
Thank you Ted, you certainly know how I feel as well, and in fact, I have just replied to that same message in order to spin some heads. It's a shame, a damn shame, that everything is constantly overlooked when it first enters the waters, but I myself look forward to changing that eventually.But for now, I'll stick to my plans and work on what I can while providing my true words as advice to those who would rather overlook us.
Good luck to you as well. :)
- Chris
#27
Prove them wrong
Since at the end of the day, I think that's what GG is all about ;)
And I know i'm an idiot, but I bought Shadowbane, and it's so bad I think i'll have to burn my computer in case some of it's badness infects my game ;)
04/01/2003 (6:01 am)
Ted, I agree with you... but the best advice I can think of is...Prove them wrong
Since at the end of the day, I think that's what GG is all about ;)
And I know i'm an idiot, but I bought Shadowbane, and it's so bad I think i'll have to burn my computer in case some of it's badness infects my game ;)
#28
As far as the ideas beaing a dime a dozen... Well they are. A game idea without the backing of development talent is just that an idea. If a developer set out to implement his idea he gets a game with his idea of great gameplay and sucky graphics. If a designer or artists sets out to implement his idea he gets some cool documents and art but NO GAME. I think that post was directed at the designers and artists who want development talent to work on their IDEA that may or may not have any grounding in reality.
04/01/2003 (6:31 am)
The one thing I find funny in all of this is the common thread of "Your first projects will suck". Is it that game developers all started early before they learned to write code? Is it because they never learned enginering practices?As far as the ideas beaing a dime a dozen... Well they are. A game idea without the backing of development talent is just that an idea. If a developer set out to implement his idea he gets a game with his idea of great gameplay and sucky graphics. If a designer or artists sets out to implement his idea he gets some cool documents and art but NO GAME. I think that post was directed at the designers and artists who want development talent to work on their IDEA that may or may not have any grounding in reality.
#29
Yes you were right on the games faults. But most of you did not stick around for the real fun, which wasnt from the game but the psychopathic nutjobs in the guilds. Ventrilo the voice chat came out about the same time. It wasnt until guilds required players to be in the vent voice chat to become members that things got really cool.
What makes this game so good is that you could go up, kill someone and steal all their loot. Now if you like to just pick flowers until you get a gold ring with +5 mana, that isnt for you.
If you got killed, you kill back. I was ganked by two guys in a small guild, so I camped their tree in the city every day, ganking their mules and farmers. In shadowbane, your actions had consequence. One guy could start a war. Right Tricky?
I have played Asheron's Call, Anarchy Online, Warcraft, horizons, Dark age of camelot, ASheron's call 2, Shadowbane, by far, created the most passion, intense humor and outright laughter, and more sadness than ANY MMO could ever do. But that is for hardcore gamers. I was in more than 3 guilds. Each one, once they knew you and could trust you,
The Asians invaded. This happened after most of the people ditched the game and went on to other things. The Asians loved this game, for us Americans, Canadians, and British, they became a great evil intent on taking over the server. And often did. some say they ruined it, but it created a great evil we could not talk to. I remember sitting in an asian capital, and pick-pocketing a gold duper out of tens of thousands of gold and so much rare minerals as I could hold.
People cheated, yes, there was duping galore. but it gave power and made the cost of empires easy, just as it does in real life.
We had people from all walks of life - guys in the US army, (Jack, it was running with you in the morning as we killed Asians farming gold on that southern swamp island, and you were funny as all hell)
We had a guild leader, a girl from Scotland who cussed worse than a drunk sailor. But she could lead, and we had fun. I had Hooch as a guild leader, a good' ole boy from Tennesee and his mom would farm and lvl us up while we were working.
We all farmed, could level up in a day or two, experiment with characters, be evil, be good, join in something that was fun.
My point is, that Shadowbane was a real MMO, with real consequences. I loved it in spite of all its warts. And haven't had as much fun in any game since. And I would be playing it today, if it was still going.
Maybe someday, the lore will be bought, and another great game will come, where you can gank, track, pick-pocket, steal and kill, destroy and join. Hurt people and really help them, and have great fun doing it.
Moosh
A.K.A
Tarball
Dooshbag
Stinky
and a host of other toons
10/25/2010 (8:52 pm)
Shadowbane Epiloge - autumn 2010Yes you were right on the games faults. But most of you did not stick around for the real fun, which wasnt from the game but the psychopathic nutjobs in the guilds. Ventrilo the voice chat came out about the same time. It wasnt until guilds required players to be in the vent voice chat to become members that things got really cool.
What makes this game so good is that you could go up, kill someone and steal all their loot. Now if you like to just pick flowers until you get a gold ring with +5 mana, that isnt for you.
If you got killed, you kill back. I was ganked by two guys in a small guild, so I camped their tree in the city every day, ganking their mules and farmers. In shadowbane, your actions had consequence. One guy could start a war. Right Tricky?
I have played Asheron's Call, Anarchy Online, Warcraft, horizons, Dark age of camelot, ASheron's call 2, Shadowbane, by far, created the most passion, intense humor and outright laughter, and more sadness than ANY MMO could ever do. But that is for hardcore gamers. I was in more than 3 guilds. Each one, once they knew you and could trust you,
The Asians invaded. This happened after most of the people ditched the game and went on to other things. The Asians loved this game, for us Americans, Canadians, and British, they became a great evil intent on taking over the server. And often did. some say they ruined it, but it created a great evil we could not talk to. I remember sitting in an asian capital, and pick-pocketing a gold duper out of tens of thousands of gold and so much rare minerals as I could hold.
People cheated, yes, there was duping galore. but it gave power and made the cost of empires easy, just as it does in real life.
We had people from all walks of life - guys in the US army, (Jack, it was running with you in the morning as we killed Asians farming gold on that southern swamp island, and you were funny as all hell)
We had a guild leader, a girl from Scotland who cussed worse than a drunk sailor. But she could lead, and we had fun. I had Hooch as a guild leader, a good' ole boy from Tennesee and his mom would farm and lvl us up while we were working.
We all farmed, could level up in a day or two, experiment with characters, be evil, be good, join in something that was fun.
My point is, that Shadowbane was a real MMO, with real consequences. I loved it in spite of all its warts. And haven't had as much fun in any game since. And I would be playing it today, if it was still going.
Maybe someday, the lore will be bought, and another great game will come, where you can gank, track, pick-pocket, steal and kill, destroy and join. Hurt people and really help them, and have great fun doing it.
Moosh
A.K.A
Tarball
Dooshbag
Stinky
and a host of other toons
#30
[edit] bad andy ! no more beers for andy! leave the new guy alone...
10/26/2010 (7:20 pm)
Deleted...[edit] bad andy ! no more beers for andy! leave the new guy alone...
#31
10/28/2010 (4:10 pm)
Hmm, I actually enjoyed this game, but then I played with 7 real life friends, so that may be part of it. I'd agree though, lots of bugs, poor graphics, but I quite enjoyed the concept. Out of the twenty something mmos I have played, I'd honestly rank shadowbane in the top 5 funniest. To each their own though. 
Torque Owner Luc Jordan
Thief 1 definitely had its flaws, although I can't remember exactly what they were at the moment.
But, damn. :) That was a good game (and Thief 2 kicked ass too).