Site Active.(Licence changes (public domain) in effect)

#1 Wow didnt expected this move oO

btw would you mind just telling/ explaining me why you are so againsts Greed?

I mean am curious as you where actually one of the ppl that wanted this too? at least it looked this way for me :(

Anyways your move will not be forgotten and i wish you all the best out there in the sea

fare well brother

#2 Intent as a dig aside: Thank you. Sincerely. I could only wish that it was clearer that the one at least (from my perspective) was intended to work alongside the main repo. Not in competition with it, or as a replacement, unless it really does flat out die-as-in-404.

It's one of the reasons I at least have foot-dragged a bit shifting the general commit structure on over to a github version while the main steering committee sorts its-self out, and the community weighs in on what they would like to see. (Or not. Not infinitely patient, after all.)

#3 @Ron
well i couldnt resist as am tbh ..... insert whatever word you want

i have written you a e-mail and i really hope that you read it as i mean what it is in there!

#4 Sad to see you go... thanks for releasing your stuff though. If I use them in my game I will be sure to give you proper credit for them.

#5 @J0: He made his point pretty clear in his prior blog how having two "sub" engines "competing" with each other are sort of tearing the community support for the engine into two separate groups.

Personally, I can understand his move, there's less more than talented developers helping to contribute to the actual engine itself in terms of what needs to be done for it. Now, I'm not one generally for making rant posts myself, but unfortunately as we're starting to lose long time devoted developers to the engine, I feel obliged to do so, so brace yourselves:

*Begin Rant*
I honestly cannot and for the manner will not support any initiative that places any more of a split on this community, I simply won't have it. Everyone needs to cool their jets regarding making "sub" engines and start getting back to work on what we're all here for, which is Torque 3D. I cannot even begin to imagine the amount of times I have stated some of the key problems for this engine, in fact this post pretty much sums it up. We, as a community need to stop sitting around on the big problems, and actually do something about it while actually writing fixes for the engine itself. Now I know the WinterLeaf folks will throw the "all of our pull requests got denied" line at me, I think the biggest reason they got denied is they were simply too big. Honestly, break it down into components that we can actually feasibly test over time. I would honestly not mind downloading a whole copy of a clone, just to test these changes.
*End Rant*

Now, I don't know if Ron will pop back in to at least read his thread, but honestly, I read almost every blog/resource/big forum post on this site, and I check in about 9 - 10 times a day, and I'm pretty sure I've nailed his reasons on the head there.

The only thing keeping me here believe it or not, is the fact that I'm just too familiarized with this engine, it's the only really feasibly open source concept, and I have paid products running on it.

As for Ron, I still wish you the best of luck wherever your development takes you next, and know that whichever community you choose to move into next, they've earned a hell-of-a great artist. I speak now to anyone who wants to use his "free" assets, please for the love of god, put his name in the credits or thanks for his work, he put in a load of time on this, and he deserves all the credit for his great work.

#6 Thanks Ron...Sorry to see you go but I hope to still keep in touch and good luck with your new direction!

#7 @Ron
Quite overwhelming move, but why do you make such complicated custom licenses? Why not just put a creative common license like CC0 or CC-BY on it, so it would be clear for everyone since the licenses are widely used and everyone will know how they will be compatible.
This would be good for the case, if someone wants to redistribute them.

#8 THIS BLOG IS REMOVED BY THE AUTHOR.

#9 CC0 (public domain) simply means no copyright, this is a term that is widely known and clear what it means, while "free" does not automatically mean free.

@All who think there is a splitting of the community going on.

You have to remember, that open source is not really a split, since you can always merge things together again, if you like what the other group did and if the license stays the same there will be no problem and no real split.

#10 THIS BLOG IS REMOVED BY THE AUTHOR.

#11 Thanks for making it clear.

#12 [offtopic]
@Robert thats not our excuse.. We need to make some huge changes to the engine, and we need funding so we need to sell it. Our goal with OMNI is simply much more different than the goal for T3D, we couldn't achieve it with the Open Source model.
You've got to understand that we have rewritten everything in the engine, converted it to C# etc.. Etc.. It's hardly "T3D" anymore.
However if anyone have an issue with Winterleaf Entertainment or our engine OMNI you are free to email Paul Yoskowitz pyoskowitz[at]winterleafentertainment.com
[/offtopic]
Now Ron, you have always been too generous.. Honestly I don't think you should have done this even if you switch engines, that art represents months of work, you should sell it to the UDK or Unity community or whatever community you decide to join :)

Btw this link: "Tropical Rain Forest Environment Pack" is dead.

#13 Just because a few people believe that everything should be free doesn't automatically make it so. There will always be someone that wants something for free, and really, they can want all they like. Just because someone chooses to use a MIT licensed engine that doesn't mean that all inputs into and outputs from that engine must follow the same model.

Heck, I have a book for sale that is about Torque 3D. By the same "free must follow free" mentality, that book should also be free, and all the time I put into it should just have been donated. People can feel free to plead their case with the publisher and see how far they get.

Ultimately, everyone has to choose their own path and so long as you feel it is the right one, then who cares about other people that are trying to alter your course. They have their own agendas.

As for projects like GREED, I personally have no problem with them. In fact, I believe that projects like that can only help with the Torque 3D ecosystem. Any time someone uses T3D, directly or indirectly, it helps. The more people that get their hands into the guts of things, the greater chance that they will become a contributor, maybe even back to the main repo. If someone comes here because of GREED or some other spin off I can't see that as being a bad thing.

And besides, isn't this a community project just like everyone always talks about? "Let's make a community game!" I hear come up all the time. To me, it appears that these guys have decided upon themselves to take that up. How else could such a project be made except by forking to allow for game-specific changes? I really don't see the community split here, just the potential for community growth.

As for WinterLeaf and OMNI, I say good on them. If they feel they can penetrate the commercial game engine market, go for it! It is a tough market to be in right now. In general, guys from WinterLeaf are part of this community and I see them helping out all the time. I don't think we as a community can afford to turn away anyone that is willing to help.

- Dave

#14 First allow me to thanks Ron for his very generous action(also you really shouldn't have done this).

Regrading GREED, then I see no issue here. As Duion mentioned stuff can be merged.

Perhaps all this "split community" arguing should stop so people could start do what they love doing with a clear mind? That is making tools, games and art or improving the engine.

I personally see no problem with people finding together on this community to help out making tools or developing a sub Torque 3D engine. Of course it would benefit the community if they would stay in touch with the github branch.

Now regarding some people "not helping" then I am very much against this view. I actually find any person downloading this engine and making games with it is helping out.

Why? How come? Well showcase is actually very important for an engine's survival. When people see games are made with an engine other developers will be attracted to use it.

I fact I find GREED to be an awesome initiative. In many ways this is what MIT is all about, freedom to develop anything with the tool, no strains no strict licensees from hell. Just pure, clean and raw freedom and innovation.

So to you guys taking your very important time working on GREED, you rocks!

To Luis who have done an amazing job on the ports to different platforms, you are like sent from heaven to this community.

To all artists who make art packs for Torque users, you are much needed as no game without great art.

The point here is, that no matter whether you use the engine to make games, tools, art packs, add ons, a new engine or working on the next port for a new platform then YOU are contributing to the engines survival. Because all this is coming from the Torque 3D MIT and its community in one way or the other.

People are spending way too much time fighting about who do what and who should not do what. Be liberal, allow people to be innovative and free. Then start talk about merging stuff when new stuff comes from the many projects.

Be free in mind and allow people the freedom to use this engine being innovative with games, designs and making new engines.

In the end a game engine will pass away into the great void of emptiness if all we got is engine developers but no game developers.

Never forget that...

Edit: Lol, regarding some of my community stuff I wrote, I got ninjaed by Dave :o)

#15 All Hail the Dwarf King!

@Ron : Such a flamboyant split is unfortunate and ultimately unnecessary in my opinion.

You are however free to express yourself as you did; I'd much rather have you be yourself 100%.

You don't HAVE to leave the community (nobody's kicking you out) but once again, your choice is yours and will be respected.

Still have lots of respect for what you've achieved Ron! Best of luck in your next endeavours!

#16 @Ron, thanks for everything.

I wish you well.

#17 THIS BLOG IS REMOVED BY THE AUTHOR.

Ron

#18 I disagree with the motives, but I am still grateful for you to make all these really nice assets available as public domain. Thanks!

#19 That's very generous of you, Ron. Good luck for the future.

#20 Ah yes, this comment deserves to be stand-alone. Regardless of the reasons or aftermath, your contributions past and present are greatly appreciated Ron. I'm not a T3D user, but having access to new art would make me very happy. Thanks =)