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T3D Components: A Community Purchase Post-Mortem

by Jeff Raab · 10/11/2013 (7:59 am) · 17 comments

So, anyone that'd been following the project or Dan's parallel posting of it may be aware, the Community Purchase campaign for the T3D Component system I've been working on came and went without success.
So, given that as far as I'm aware, this is the first real community purchase campaign for the Garage Games community, a postmortem of it would allow myself and others to better understand what went right, wrong and can be better next time.

What went right:

-I had a fairly solid product that was demonstrable, and progressive updates to the project as the campaign was running let me do updates that would further incentiv-ize people to pitch in.

-It almost succeeded, meaning there was definite community interest and support. If there hadn't been issues holding it back, I've no doubt the community would've funded it.

-Dan Buckmaster.
Dang dude, I should just let you manage the campaign next time! I'm not particularly grandly sociable in outside communities, and tend to feel somewhat uncomfortable posting outside of the 'targeted' group. Dan did lots of supporting posts, and even tried getting stuff posted onto reddit's game development subforums(which I didn't even know existed until he did). If it had been done at the start, it probably would've had a pretty sizable impact on the campaign.

What went wrong:

-The demonstration video, while technically showing off the project, did a poor job of conveying what it actually DID.
Part of this is because lots of the work happens in the code/background and isn't super-easy to show off, but I didn't do a good job of explaining what it was doing even on-screen. I wanted to avoid tons of annotations or subtitles on the screen, but I ended up not providing enough information which made the video hard to understand.
I also heard some people suggest it should be higher resolution. It was the best I could do with my poor computer, but it's definitely a valid point.

-Outreach
--I made the assumption that most of the interest would be in the garagegames community itself, and that's where my focus was. While not incorrect, it was shortsighted of me.
Namely, the blogs I put up didn't stick to the front page, so without being spotlit by GG, they would get buried by other peoples' updates.

--Another issue is that not everyone visits the GG site on a regular basis. They may hop in on occasion, but that could easily be during the last day of the campaign, so they don't have time to think about if they'd contribute or not.
Reaching out to other communities, such as the Torque3D.net site, or the subreddits would likely help quite a lot. It definitely couldn't HURT the campaign.

--Even posting to other engine forums - if done tactfully - could potentially draw contributions. There's lots of people using unity that liked Torque for other things, so they may be willing to pitch in to make it better.

--I did try posting a blog to Torque3D.net, but while it said it posted, I never saw it materialize. I didn't have time at the end of the campaign to really back and forth with whoever manages those posts, so that ended up biting me in the butt for not doing it right at the start. Getting it up at the beginning and making sure it all was correct then would've been a lot smarter.

-Product breakdown
--I had a difficult time figuring out the best way to explain what the system did, exactly. Many people here - at least on a basic level - understand 'Component System' to a degree. If for no other reason than knowing that Unity nebulously uses them somehow.
What ended up being a problem is I made the assumption that people would've seen enough elsewhere to be familiar with the basic concept and possible usages, again due to other engines like unity or T2D using them. I didn't account for the knowledge gap on MY end, where there is an entire spectrum of what's considered a 'Component-Entity System', so what that means for Torque was quickly lost.

--I also didn't really demonstrate or explain why it would save time. Again, I figured it would be self-evident to anyone that's spent time working with ShapeBase or the Player class, but again, while some of the programmers familiar with the engine guts may get it, artists or light scripters wouldn't understand why it helps.
ESPECIALLY if they didn't ever look at T2D.

--Dan pretty much totally schooled me on how to coherently explain the system. I tend to get a bit rambly or repeat a fair bit, so the message can get lost in a sea of kludge. A straightforward, ideally example-driven post would've helped a lot in why it would be useful.

--Protection of the work. I needed to try and find a balance of how to give examples of what all it did had going for it while not just dumping the whole system, since that'd sorta invalidate the idea of the campaign - for better or for worse ;)
This largely stems from me not explaining correctly and having a terrible video, so trying to provide explanations later would've been easier with real examples, but I can't just code dump the guts of the system, which is also one of the most important parts in understanding what the system does.
Again, better explanations and demonstration videos/pictures would've remedied this from ever being a concern.

--Slow updates.
I was working on updates to the backend, adding behaviors and the like as the project went on. While this was good for letting me do updates to the project, I'm not very skilled in video editing and the like yet. So I didn't have a timely way of showing them off. I need to streamline the process I use for editing videos going forward so it doesn't take a week of work to get a video presentable.

What's the future?

This is a bit more free-form, as it's not easy to figure what would be best for round two, but here's some definites:

-A much better demonstration.
Instead of a basic highlight reel, I'll look at doing a mini-tutorial for building a top-down click control game like an RTS or dungeon crawl using the component system. It'll do a lot better job of showing how it can be easier to work with, and save time and effort.

-Probably ask Dan to help me not sound like an idiot ;)

-Post elsewhere, such as the subreddits, Torque3D.net and maybe some of the other engine boards. I'll also talk to someone at GG to see about getting the blog in the spotlight if they feel it's worthy. And do this right at the beginning, instead of in the 11th hour.

-Probably won't use Indie Go Go.
It's good for what it is, but I found the site to be a pain to work with, especially the updates to the project as it went on. I went with it largely because prior GG crowdfunding attempts had used it so I figured people here would have a bit of a familiarity with it, but in retrospect that really doesn't matter.
I'm not sure what I'll use in the future though.

Part of the reason I went with a crowdfund site is because (and maybe it's just me) it felt a little skeevy to ask for money that went pretty much straight into my pocket until enough was contributed that I would finally release the product(such as through paypal or whatever).
Another issue with crowdfund sites is the time limit, like 30 days.
Several people posted right at the end that if there was a bit more time they would have contributed. Fact is, this month ended up being pretty rough for a lot of people budget-wise, and a time limit like that makes it harder for people to contribute if the timing doesn't align just so.
Something like the paypal donate button would bypass those concerns handily.

Maybe no one else minds paying out to paypal for their contribution, but when I was putting together the campaign idea I can't say I was fond of that, even though I knew I personally was legit. Let me know if you guys that that'd be a better approach next time

-There will be another attempt somehow, and I'll do it as soon as is feasible
I'm going to try and get a proper demonstration put together for this, and more core behaviors to make it feel like a better investment. I may adjust the price to reflect that, but that's not concrete.

This is what I felt flopped the campaign, and some bits that I saw from other posters. I want you guys to give feedback on what you think was good(probably nothing ;) ) and what you'd preferred to have seen for the campaign.

Even if it didn't succeed this time, want to give a MASSIVE thank you to all the people that pledged, or helped me/gave feedback as I stumbled around like an idiot on this first try. We'll do it right next time guys ;)

So, THANK YOU!

#1
10/11/2013 (1:19 pm)
I feel your pain, The Components System is something T3D is desperately in need of, If I had the money I would have donated it ALL, but being a poverty stricken Brit, I did all I could at the time and could have doubled it if I had realised it was nearly ending (being a month down the line from my first donation meant I could have snook some more cash away from the bills!)

I think you have pretty much covered all the points in your above post, a donate with countdown of whats left to donate may be one way to go? Maybe get a third party to hold the funds till its funded if you don't like the idea of holding them yourself? GG or someone else you can trust(you would have to duke it out with them)

[Donate] $635 Left till funded..

That sort of thing? I for one can both see the advantages and disadvantages of this. Just an Idea.

Best of Luck with Round 2. I for 1 am watching this space!
#2
10/11/2013 (1:40 pm)
I agree with David. I think a little more time for people to donate something like 60 - 90 days should do fine!
Also better video showing how it works..Even a small demo game done with it. You could record the process. To give people that don't know what it is a chance to see it in real time, great quality, better explanation of what's going on. I believe you'll do better the next time around.
Another good way of helping out the campaign would be to have GG advertise it if possible. That way when new people or some that doesn't visit the site so much would get a chance to see what's going on and possible contribute.

Just my thoughts...Good luck with attempt two!!!
#3
10/11/2013 (2:26 pm)
I apologize for not donating. I had contract work that was not paid on until after the campaign ended. If you ran the fund raiser again I could donate. So for me it was timing.
#4
10/11/2013 (2:46 pm)
Jeff@ Just a thought ... but another approach to funding could be tiered but require that the work is all done first.

What I mean is let people pay $5 (or more) to get "early access" and support the project.

If/when the sum total of contributions exceeds your pre-set value (say $750 or $1000) ... have a "stretch goal" to release it to the public as well. And at that point, add it to the core MIT 3.0 release if feasible.

Then you get the first iteration out to those who can make use of it and get your support ... with potential to still collect the desired amount and release to all at some point.

plus the "early access" people could then contribute other examples made with the system, to help show how its a useful "upgrade" to T3D. (And help improve the over-all design as well, by testing it in action)

again, just an idea that sounded good to me -- not sure how it would work in reality.
#5
10/11/2013 (4:28 pm)
I agree 100% with Jeff. Nothing really more i can add to that except to agree that this is something the T3D has needed for a very long time. It would be an extremely valuable addition.

If i had known about the funding campaign for this sooner i could and would have donated.
#6
10/11/2013 (5:12 pm)
Oh Jeff, you flatter me! Great writeup. Shoot me an email if there's anything I can do to help! But yeah, more/better examples would be great. Along the lines of that thread where someone wanted to know how to make an object rotate, and you presented a super-simple component to do so. People need to see how it can help them solve really easy problems in a really powerful way (because that guy could then make any other object rotate the same way using that component).
#7
10/11/2013 (11:57 pm)
@David
The problem of having a 3rd party mediate it, is who's the third party? That was the idea with using IGG. Having GarageGames or another group do it would involve a lot of new legalities they'd have to consider that groups like IGG already have. And their site isn't set up to run anything like that, etc. So while I think it'd be neat for GG to facilitate community campaigns like this going forward, it's not really practical without quite a bit of pre-emptive legwork first.
IANAL, but that that's my understanding of it at least.

@Jeff
I'd considered something like that, but licensing it would be kind of a weird thing. I'll look into it more to see if it's feasible to orchestrate though.

@Dan
Definitely. Like said, for the second attempt, I'm thinking of doing a mini tutorial(series?) that gets you basic functional gameplay from scratch via components. That should do a lot better job of showing how useful it can be.
#8
10/12/2013 (6:59 am)
IMO crowd funding just doesn't work for torque. This is failed campaign number 4 and Jeff even charged way under what he should have.
#9
10/12/2013 (8:59 am)
@Tim
I'm not totally convinced of that. While I think it's fair to say my price was underselling the work involved, given that how few people(relatively) pitched in but with sizable amounts - and that's mostly due to my mismanagement of the information and outreach on the project - think with more time and better handling it could've passed pretty handily.

IGG allows up to 60 days for the campaigns, and I don't doubt that even as poorly as I handled this initial one while I was floundering about blind, if it had the additional 30 days it probably would've passed anyways.

A better done campaign(which the next attempt will be) could probably raise it in 30 days, let alone 60.

To wit: even GG's failed linux campaign managed $10k pledged(a third of the goal, I think) in 45 days iirc. It's not at all a stretch to believe that done right, this campaign could crush the target goal, let alone simply succeed.
#10
10/12/2013 (10:53 pm)
Writing a tutorial to step people through using the component system would be great.

I'm cautiously optimistic that crowdfunding can work for Torque - but the thing we discovered working on Brainworth was that people aren't on places like Kickstarter because they want to altruistically help out 'the community'. They're not willing to throw money at an ideal. They want a product.* To some extent the campaign has to make it relevant to people. I put money into this because I know how much I would enjoy working with a component system in T3D. But lots of others don't, or don't agree, so they didn't back it.

*There are exceptions to every rule, of course.
#11
10/13/2013 (3:33 pm)
I can say that there was some interested parties on the Oculus Rift Subreddit but sadly posting it 2 hours before it finished didn't help (But people replied after the fact)

I would be willing to make video's and spruce them up and focus more on how it would help rifters and non rifters alike.

I'm sure we can get a few dollars from interested parties from that side as well and explaining how it makes it easier and uses something similar to Unity's components system would help certain users transition over to T3D (Everyone gets a 3 month free Unity Trial to make rift games and lots of the users can't afford the $1500 price tag)

I am happy to help in any way and I can but better more clear video's and sprucing them up a bit would be the way to go I think :)
#12
10/13/2013 (4:44 pm)
@NiN-NiN, the Rift angle I think is a great opportunity for T3D.

I am excited to see what Ron's contract work is and see more T3D Rift exposure and updates.

@Daniel, I agree the kickstarter people are there for innovative products for them. We could deliver a product and the cost of such a product includes the work we feel T3D needs. That is how I feel T3D could get a big boost.

Possibility a community game aimed to be sold on steam, funding towards the people to work on T3D features, game art and the key members. Others get a share of profits and credits :-).

Of course this would mean some type of gathering of developers. With a shared idea.
#13
10/13/2013 (5:05 pm)
I think it would work well with the rift angle and the guys and gals on the r/oculus subreddit and all for supporting the rift anyway they can so it's a good source I think to help push it over the line :)

I am excited to see Ron's contract work as well I really want water to work correctly cause swimming in it feels fantastic and would be great for a sea diving/underwater exploring game like Echo The Dolphin.

I do like the idea of a community game i'm currently kicking one off for the oculus subreddit and slowly working on it for the community to support just for fun.

But seeing the talent we have here I think a fantastic game would sell well and help T3D improve immensely :)
#14
10/15/2013 (3:34 am)
What about a different take on community/crowd funding, utilising something along the lines of bountysource as opposed to campaigns.

The concept might be a good fit for torque3d more broadly as well. If there was something more central as well as tied to the git repository, this might assist in gaining visibility...wasn't there a feature page somewhere!?

PS apologies as I completely missed this on IGG!
#15
11/12/2013 (8:36 pm)
When do we get another chance at this thing? Is it happening and I didnt hear about it?
#16
11/13/2013 (1:55 am)
@Antony

Yep, I'll be taking another crack at this thing. I've been working on additional polish and a real demonstration that shows it off way better than the little video I had for the first attempt.

Once it's sorted there'll be another attempt happening.
#17
11/13/2013 (6:33 pm)
@Jeff

Do you have an ETA? I'm really excited about what you are working on. I have played around with Actor Components in Torque, but I am very interested in your implementation. I would love for everybody to buy off on this and for it to be adapted into Torque, so that we are all on the same page. And like Dan B. I would really like to get it in there so we can add components of our own.