Game Design - The character or the player, an informal poll
by Kenneth Eves · 10/26/2012 (8:21 pm) · 11 comments
An informal poll about how you as a person see yourself when interacting in a gaming environment. It fits most closely with RPG players, but might apply to other genres.
I intentionally avoid interpretation at this point rather than color the results of reader feedback. I'm very curious about the responses.
Which one fits you best:
1. "I am Heldor, champion of the Imperial forces. I've been given a mission by Graxnok to travel through the Unholy Valley to the Forsaken Swamps and find the missing courier Drednok or determine his fate. My mission is vital to the Empire. I have no fear of the perilous journey."
2. "I'm a level 14 champion. I just picked up a new quest. My objective is to travel a zone, retrieve a package from a corpse and take it to the turn-in at the next town. East, then south, then east. Corpse is at coords 1142,2177. Reward is a Merglethorpe Hammer of Dexterity, level 14 blue. If I skip the trash mobs, I should be done in about 20 minutes."
I intentionally avoid interpretation at this point rather than color the results of reader feedback. I'm very curious about the responses.
Which one fits you best:
1. "I am Heldor, champion of the Imperial forces. I've been given a mission by Graxnok to travel through the Unholy Valley to the Forsaken Swamps and find the missing courier Drednok or determine his fate. My mission is vital to the Empire. I have no fear of the perilous journey."
2. "I'm a level 14 champion. I just picked up a new quest. My objective is to travel a zone, retrieve a package from a corpse and take it to the turn-in at the next town. East, then south, then east. Corpse is at coords 1142,2177. Reward is a Merglethorpe Hammer of Dexterity, level 14 blue. If I skip the trash mobs, I should be done in about 20 minutes."
About the author
<3 TGE/A Quickly becoming a fan of T3D 1.2
#2
When I am playing MoM the game mechanics are so pervasive that I am N/S/W 20/19/18. Because it becomes a level grind the immersion is less. I had the same issue with Oblivion. Get better stuff, go up a level, kill bigger stuff.
Playing FFX I felt connected to the character, though I was still an observer. I also hated his enemies.
One way to help with immersion in a RPG would be to personalize the experience. Give the player the ability to describe their past. Make it so the weapons are armor they use because weapons and armor absorb the player's essence. Allow the player to augment their equipment.
A while back I came up with the idea WOL (Weapon of Legend) in Oblivion. Where the more I used a weapon (hits, kills, cast spells, hit by spells, etc) the weapon would take on characteristics of the player and their actions. It would gain a personality. I also made it so if you dropped the weapon it would lose all, or most of its gained abilities. This simulated the player becoming not just proficient in that weapon type, but with that weapon. I ran into issues with the mod and have toyed with going back an rewriting, but the concept did work well. The player got better and better with the weapon and it would gain augments over time, but only in the hands of that player.
I think RPGs are really missing the mark by making everything something you can beat a huge monster to get. What would add depth and a focus on the R in RPG would be to personalize the equipment through use and abuse. If a dragon breaths fire onto a character and they survive then it should heat treat the armor or weapon to make it stronger. Also, if magic was used to protect the player then it could gain magical properties. A curse could work the same way. This would make the world much more dynamic and interesting. There would be legendary characters because a player chose to be legendary, not because they killed the monster from planet X and got the laser of undead killing +10.
10/26/2012 (9:30 pm)
When I was playing The Path of Neo I was the One. It created an environment where you felt like you were in the game. Playing as the One I do have an effect on the game, though scripted. I gain skills through insight.When I am playing MoM the game mechanics are so pervasive that I am N/S/W 20/19/18. Because it becomes a level grind the immersion is less. I had the same issue with Oblivion. Get better stuff, go up a level, kill bigger stuff.
Playing FFX I felt connected to the character, though I was still an observer. I also hated his enemies.
One way to help with immersion in a RPG would be to personalize the experience. Give the player the ability to describe their past. Make it so the weapons are armor they use because weapons and armor absorb the player's essence. Allow the player to augment their equipment.
A while back I came up with the idea WOL (Weapon of Legend) in Oblivion. Where the more I used a weapon (hits, kills, cast spells, hit by spells, etc) the weapon would take on characteristics of the player and their actions. It would gain a personality. I also made it so if you dropped the weapon it would lose all, or most of its gained abilities. This simulated the player becoming not just proficient in that weapon type, but with that weapon. I ran into issues with the mod and have toyed with going back an rewriting, but the concept did work well. The player got better and better with the weapon and it would gain augments over time, but only in the hands of that player.
I think RPGs are really missing the mark by making everything something you can beat a huge monster to get. What would add depth and a focus on the R in RPG would be to personalize the equipment through use and abuse. If a dragon breaths fire onto a character and they survive then it should heat treat the armor or weapon to make it stronger. Also, if magic was used to protect the player then it could gain magical properties. A curse could work the same way. This would make the world much more dynamic and interesting. There would be legendary characters because a player chose to be legendary, not because they killed the monster from planet X and got the laser of undead killing +10.
#3
10/26/2012 (9:41 pm)
Another simple addition to an RPG or any game, would be to add the ability to journal the experience in game. This could also have options for publishing to an external site, email, RSS feed, etc. Then people can share their experience. As an example I started writing a journal in Oblivion using a journal mod. Here is an excerpt:Heartfire 26, 3E433 Today I was I became a Knight Errant of Leyawin. I also bought a home in Leyawin. It can act as another safe house for when I need to avoid people and the sun. I will have to find a 'servant' to 'occupy' this house for times when I must feed in secrecy. Being a knight does help keep people guessing. I mean how could a knight go around sucking people's blood at night? Heartfire ?, 3E433 I met a girl today. Her name is Rin. She was looking for adventure and a partner to explore the countryside. I have decided to take her under my wing. If I think it is safe I will let her know what I truly am. I think she is beginning to suspect. She does not question why when fighting a foe that I prefer to bite the jugular. She seems not to be put off by this at all. Never once has she mentioned how it was odd. In those beautiful eyes I can see her intelligence shining through. She definitely knows I am not 'normal'. Frost Fall 20, 3E433 I showed Rin what I am today. She was not surprised at all. She had suspected for quite some time. She listened to my story and was quite intrigued. I gave her a choice. She could go if she wanted or stay with me. She decided she would stay. She had grown attached to me, and I admit I to her. Not for food, but as a good friend and companion. So we headed to a Hrotanda to find some adventure, and for me some food. Something quite funny occured. I cast a frenzy spell on some bandits and they of course began to mindlessly kill each other. I followed 2 bandits that were battling it out. One of the bandits, a female Redguard, slew her opponent and said this to him, "Don't worry, nobody lives forever." It was at this moment that I jumped from the shadows and consumed her blood until she died. As I finished I whispered in her ear as she died, "Don't worry child, nobody lives forever. Except me..." As the light faded from her eyes I caught a glimpse of a smile on her face. Even in death she saw the ironic humor in her last words. Rin also smiled when I told her what happened. Then she whispered in my ear, "Not even you will live forever. Someday someone will find you and hunt you down. Until that day I will love you for who and what your are." I stared into Rin's eyes and I felt a tear fall from my eye. I also saw tears in her eyes. She kissed my cheek and wetted her lips with my tear. I had no words for her. I loved her as well, but I realized time would go on and I would watch her grow old. She could not follow me into the future. We both knew it. Perhaps, maybe, I could giver her my dark gift. No, no, no! What am I thinking?! I cannot do such a thing!The character is a vampire trying to come to terms with his condition. He is also searching for escape from his nightmare.
#4
It leaves alot to the imagination - Which I think is good.
#2 is too specific for my personal liking and is giving me a set of instructions that I must follow.
-BTW - im a FPS player by nature not and RPG, so maybe thats why I like #1 over #2
10/27/2012 (7:05 am)
I like #1 - Simple to the point and gives me an Identity, what my goal is, and where I will have to journey to accomplish my goal. It leaves alot to the imagination - Which I think is good.
#2 is too specific for my personal liking and is giving me a set of instructions that I must follow.
-BTW - im a FPS player by nature not and RPG, so maybe thats why I like #1 over #2
#5
10/27/2012 (7:56 am)
I liked #1 best too. 
#6
My entire time in the game was as though I was the Gnome and not a guy sitting at a desktop PC looking to get the next best reward.
Over the years my attitude towards the game changed as did my style of play. To this day, I still play all games as a man that's just having fun on his PC in whatever game I happen to choose that day.
I generally choose to explore the extents of the game first. As my character progresses I explore further, even to the point of looking for easter eggs.
The challenge of really working a game to gain rewards has been drastically reduced to grinding levels, grinding game money, and grinding game armor and weapons. The true excitement has gone away and is replaced with easy to do missions or quests that require us to rinse and repeat until we reach a desired level or goal. World of Warcraft come to mind as an example.
What was once dynamic game content with the occasional GM events are usually replaced with static content, poor customer service, and smaller content add-ons to generate more interest to keep people suckered into paying for another expansion or another month of subscription.
The Secret World is a great example of what I mean.
It's a new MMO that says it has no levels, no grinding, play the game the way you want to play and "everything is true".. except such things as Aliens, or government conspiracies. :/
It started out a hype on Facebook, continued into Beta phases of Hype and promises, and even has a very good Release Date.
Soon after the release, the Dev team that built the awesome fun was reduced to a handful of developers. Their promise of Monthly content additions are actually just minor content additions like a Barber Shop to change your hair style, or a new Rocket Launcher that really isn't available to most players except for those that exploited the game before the Patches fixed the exploits.. generally unreachable until you've played every mission in the game a few dozen times each.. at which point your burned out.
In the mean time while you wait for more content each month, you stand around screaming for groups or teams for hours on end until you decide you've wasted enough time LFG and just log out of the game.
What I'd really like to see is an MMO with Dynamic content, regular GM events, monthly or bi-monthly add-ons, and great customer service.
But I think those days are gone.. possibly forever.
10/27/2012 (9:25 am)
There are few games today that gets me immersed.. correction.. there are none. But back in the day when EverQuest MMORPG was new, I played as a gnome and roleplayed it as such. It was fun to see the reactions of the other players to hear what I had to say as a Gnome.My entire time in the game was as though I was the Gnome and not a guy sitting at a desktop PC looking to get the next best reward.
Over the years my attitude towards the game changed as did my style of play. To this day, I still play all games as a man that's just having fun on his PC in whatever game I happen to choose that day.
I generally choose to explore the extents of the game first. As my character progresses I explore further, even to the point of looking for easter eggs.
The challenge of really working a game to gain rewards has been drastically reduced to grinding levels, grinding game money, and grinding game armor and weapons. The true excitement has gone away and is replaced with easy to do missions or quests that require us to rinse and repeat until we reach a desired level or goal. World of Warcraft come to mind as an example.
What was once dynamic game content with the occasional GM events are usually replaced with static content, poor customer service, and smaller content add-ons to generate more interest to keep people suckered into paying for another expansion or another month of subscription.
The Secret World is a great example of what I mean.
It's a new MMO that says it has no levels, no grinding, play the game the way you want to play and "everything is true".. except such things as Aliens, or government conspiracies. :/
It started out a hype on Facebook, continued into Beta phases of Hype and promises, and even has a very good Release Date.
Soon after the release, the Dev team that built the awesome fun was reduced to a handful of developers. Their promise of Monthly content additions are actually just minor content additions like a Barber Shop to change your hair style, or a new Rocket Launcher that really isn't available to most players except for those that exploited the game before the Patches fixed the exploits.. generally unreachable until you've played every mission in the game a few dozen times each.. at which point your burned out.
In the mean time while you wait for more content each month, you stand around screaming for groups or teams for hours on end until you decide you've wasted enough time LFG and just log out of the game.
What I'd really like to see is an MMO with Dynamic content, regular GM events, monthly or bi-monthly add-ons, and great customer service.
But I think those days are gone.. possibly forever.
#7
@Scott, I agree a lot, mostly with the "My entire time in the game was as though I was the Gnome and not a guy sitting at a desktop PC looking to get the next best reward."
Most people want to escape from reality when they play a videogame - so #1 works much better than #2 for that. In some ways, #1 is the average gamer who wants to be immersed in an alternate world, and #2 is the hardcore gamer who wants to be the best at a game.
10/27/2012 (11:49 am)
@Frank cool story!@Scott, I agree a lot, mostly with the "My entire time in the game was as though I was the Gnome and not a guy sitting at a desktop PC looking to get the next best reward."
Most people want to escape from reality when they play a videogame - so #1 works much better than #2 for that. In some ways, #1 is the average gamer who wants to be immersed in an alternate world, and #2 is the hardcore gamer who wants to be the best at a game.
#8
...
@Scott @Kevin "My entire time in the game was as though I was the Gnome and not a guy sitting at a desktop PC looking to get the next best reward."
I really enjoy when this sort of immersion takes place. For me it's almost like an imaginary VR going on inside my head with the gameworld as the environment.
@Frank "weapon would take on characteristics of the player and their actions."
Personalized gear progression replacing gear grind. Cool concept, I like it.
RE: "game mechanics are so pervasive that I am N/S/W 20/19/18"
I once had a dev tell me, "any game mechanics that can be explained by lore / backstory becomes infinitely more pretty". I agree.
Overall I think this might be one of the most important immersion breakers. Game mechanics that interfere with gameplay by being unwantedly intrusive. That leads me to wonder if the magic-bullet might be to hide game mechanics from the player.
...
For my own gameplay, very few games can draw me into the #1 state. Honorable mention to Age of Conan's Tortage region for doing so.
I find that after a while, most games stop feeling like worlds and more like games. All I see at that point are game mechanics. Go here, do this, get points, raise character level, and so on.
In some games, I find the storyline becomes more of an annoyance than anything. There's nothing worse than cut-scenes that I have no interest in seeing.
10/27/2012 (7:36 pm)
Great feedback everyone! Game environment role play / immersion is something I have a very hard time understanding. I know when I have it happen, I just cannot figure out why....
@Scott @Kevin "My entire time in the game was as though I was the Gnome and not a guy sitting at a desktop PC looking to get the next best reward."
I really enjoy when this sort of immersion takes place. For me it's almost like an imaginary VR going on inside my head with the gameworld as the environment.
@Frank "weapon would take on characteristics of the player and their actions."
Personalized gear progression replacing gear grind. Cool concept, I like it.
RE: "game mechanics are so pervasive that I am N/S/W 20/19/18"
I once had a dev tell me, "any game mechanics that can be explained by lore / backstory becomes infinitely more pretty". I agree.
Overall I think this might be one of the most important immersion breakers. Game mechanics that interfere with gameplay by being unwantedly intrusive. That leads me to wonder if the magic-bullet might be to hide game mechanics from the player.
...
For my own gameplay, very few games can draw me into the #1 state. Honorable mention to Age of Conan's Tortage region for doing so.
I find that after a while, most games stop feeling like worlds and more like games. All I see at that point are game mechanics. Go here, do this, get points, raise character level, and so on.
In some games, I find the storyline becomes more of an annoyance than anything. There's nothing worse than cut-scenes that I have no interest in seeing.
#9
10/27/2012 (7:59 pm)
Quote:That leads me to wonder if the magic-bullet might be to hide game mechanics from the player.I am not sure that would be what you want. I will elaborate in a second.
Quote:"any game mechanics that can be explained by lore / backstory becomes infinitely more pretty"There is a clue here. I like this quote as well. I think the issue is there are bunch of things in the game we don't know what they are for. What does agility actually mean? Wouldn't twitch based mechanics be more suitable to avoid attacks? Magic systems are black boxes. Maybe those should be a combination of forces a user has to assemble to create their own spells. I myself am tired of the fireball spell +10. I think FFX could teach us some things here, just like Dragon Warrior on the NES did. Reflect spell. A simple game mechanic right? Well if you cast reflect on an enemy they could not heal themselves. If you cast it on yourself you cannot heal yourself. So you cast reflect on the enemy and heal them which reflects to you. Expand on mechanics like that.
#10
10/27/2012 (10:12 pm)
I think the real trick is not so much to hide the mechanics, as to hide the evidence of the developer. 
Torque Owner Dan Webb
PsyCandy Games
Ken, the question is too game specific mate. For example, I would ordinarily choose 1 when immersed in the environment, ie; in a decent game that makes an effort to convince me that it isn't a game at all. But most of the time it's all been done many times already. If I'm level 14 then I've had a few Merglethorpe Hammers of Dexterity which I sold to little punks or on the auction house, or to some trash vendor. Or disenchanted it for the "mats". So, in World of Warcraft, while I'd like to say 1 I instead have to say:
"WTS MERGLETHORPE HAMMER OF DEXTERITY 500g PST".
Also, I love the idea of a poll. Why do we not have a poll function on these boards? This should be rectified.