iTGB 1.0 in the Wild
by Brett Seyler · 09/30/2008 (6:24 pm) · 26 comments
Well guys, I'm aiming to come in under the wire here with just hours to spare. It's September 30th, and that means it's iTGB day! If you visit the iTGB Indie page, you'll see that it's now available for purchase with an attached download. Those of you that went the pre-order route have got an extra title license with the iTGB SDK which should be available visiting your My Account page now.
Here's the latest status on iTGB and iTorque in general...
The Good
It looks like we've got all the primary TGB features ported and nearly all the known issues resolved. If you build the Behavior Shooter demo that ships with iTGB, you'll see it runs at a pretty solid clip with multiple enemy ships and particle effects on screen.
The Bad
You still have to wait for iTGE =)
Wait, there's more. In order to get your TGB game to run on the iPhone, you're going to have to do some squeezing. You're working with a very small footprint of memory and an incredibly small CPU cache. We're talking like pre-Pentium CPU cache. This means that calculations done on the CPU, especially those done via Torquescript, come at a large cost.
To get your game performing optimally, we're recommending that you prototype the game using Torquescript, but optimize by converting your scripts (like Behaviors) into code components. In many cases, this is pretty easy to do. Very few games will require more than a few days to get this done.
For Behavior Shooter, the art assets were resized in a quick and dirty fashion, and about 60% of the existing scripts were converted to code. This roughly doubled the framerate, but there are many optimizations left to be done. We're aiming to automate this process in the future, or get Torquescript performing well enough that it's no longer an issue. More on that below...
Decision Time
I seriously considered pushing back the launch date here, but I know there are a bunch of you excited to get working on your games. Some of you will be frustrated. This is not a big red button operation yet, but we're making good progress. In fact, it's pretty borderline whether we're really "Indie ready" or not with this version, but I see only two options...
As mentioned, we're going to keep working on the outstanding issues, so post anything you come across in the forums. Remember that purchasing iTGB now (or if you pre-ordered) entitles you to any updates or bug fixes through version 1.x. While we're going to be working hard to optimize Torquescript so that the script-to-code conversion won't be necessary in the future, we're also working on optimizing other parts of the engine that can be trimmed given the limitation of the hardware.
And now...a crap-ton of screens:
Here's the latest status on iTGB and iTorque in general...
The Good
It looks like we've got all the primary TGB features ported and nearly all the known issues resolved. If you build the Behavior Shooter demo that ships with iTGB, you'll see it runs at a pretty solid clip with multiple enemy ships and particle effects on screen.
The Bad
You still have to wait for iTGE =)
Wait, there's more. In order to get your TGB game to run on the iPhone, you're going to have to do some squeezing. You're working with a very small footprint of memory and an incredibly small CPU cache. We're talking like pre-Pentium CPU cache. This means that calculations done on the CPU, especially those done via Torquescript, come at a large cost.
To get your game performing optimally, we're recommending that you prototype the game using Torquescript, but optimize by converting your scripts (like Behaviors) into code components. In many cases, this is pretty easy to do. Very few games will require more than a few days to get this done.
For Behavior Shooter, the art assets were resized in a quick and dirty fashion, and about 60% of the existing scripts were converted to code. This roughly doubled the framerate, but there are many optimizations left to be done. We're aiming to automate this process in the future, or get Torquescript performing well enough that it's no longer an issue. More on that below...
Decision Time
I seriously considered pushing back the launch date here, but I know there are a bunch of you excited to get working on your games. Some of you will be frustrated. This is not a big red button operation yet, but we're making good progress. In fact, it's pretty borderline whether we're really "Indie ready" or not with this version, but I see only two options...
- We can delay making iTGB available to Indies until it's much easier to work with.
- We can make it available now and get a wider range of feedback trusting that people will heed my warnings here that the code is still very RAW.
- *Very familiar with TGB or willing to get familiar before you make the move to the iPhone
- *Very familiar with C++, or objective C
- *Reasonable about the amount of texture memory they can abuse with a device at these specs
As mentioned, we're going to keep working on the outstanding issues, so post anything you come across in the forums. Remember that purchasing iTGB now (or if you pre-ordered) entitles you to any updates or bug fixes through version 1.x. While we're going to be working hard to optimize Torquescript so that the script-to-code conversion won't be necessary in the future, we're also working on optimizing other parts of the engine that can be trimmed given the limitation of the hardware.
And now...a crap-ton of screens:
About the author
Since 2007, I've done my best to steer Torque's development and brand toward the best opportunities in games middleware.
#2
09/30/2008 (6:51 pm)
Hey that didn't take too long after all! Congrats, I look forward to using this in the future. 
#3
Reminder- iTorque users, do not forget to update your forum subscriptions to include:
iTorque Private Forums
iTGB Forums
iTGE Forums
Both iTGB and iTGE are active and have their own doc feedback threads.
09/30/2008 (6:53 pm)
Why didn't someone tell me there would be a shaky-cam recording of iTGB? I could have totally provided human beat-box audio!Reminder- iTorque users, do not forget to update your forum subscriptions to include:
iTorque Private Forums
iTGB Forums
iTGE Forums
Both iTGB and iTGE are active and have their own doc feedback threads.
#4
09/30/2008 (6:54 pm)
Oh, one question I have is on the system requirements page it says you need just a G4. AFAIK you need an Intel processor based Mac to develop with the iPhone SDK does that hold true for iTorque? 
#5
What other platforms are on the way?
(I know this will get taken the wrong way)
Just curious how thin TGE is going to get spread.
TGE, TGEA, TX, TGB,
Half Finished Tools, Half Finished Engines,
Pileing on the platforms.
09/30/2008 (7:04 pm)
Nice job guys.What other platforms are on the way?
(I know this will get taken the wrong way)
Just curious how thin TGE is going to get spread.
TGE, TGEA, TX, TGB,
Half Finished Tools, Half Finished Engines,
Pileing on the platforms.
#7
Wasn't trying to start any trouble and i've read all that stuff. Thanks for the links.
09/30/2008 (8:44 pm)
@Deborah,Wasn't trying to start any trouble and i've read all that stuff. Thanks for the links.
#8
09/30/2008 (8:45 pm)
@Jeremy: No prob. Just thought I'd post for anyone who hadn't caught any of that info.
#9
However, I don't think this release should have been named 1.0. The 1.0 moniker, combined with the slick marketing material on the product page will generate unrealistic expectations for many users. I also have some specific questions and concerns and have started posting them in the iTGB forums. Thanks
09/30/2008 (10:25 pm)
@Brett, your points well taken and as an indie developer I appreciate the chance to work with the engine sooner rather than later. I'll probably be able to make some contributions to the source now. However, I don't think this release should have been named 1.0. The 1.0 moniker, combined with the slick marketing material on the product page will generate unrealistic expectations for many users. I also have some specific questions and concerns and have started posting them in the iTGB forums. Thanks
#10
John K.
09/30/2008 (11:18 pm)
This looks great! Congratulations to all of you for pulling this together and releasing so quickly! I really can't wait to play with this!John K.
#11
Yep the mouse moving down-right every click is just too painful. I'm still hoping and wishing that it will be better within a month. In the meantime I'll be prototyping multiple game ideas in TGB.
10/01/2008 (2:00 am)
@AlexYep the mouse moving down-right every click is just too painful. I'm still hoping and wishing that it will be better within a month. In the meantime I'll be prototyping multiple game ideas in TGB.
#12
Nice work on the iTGB release. I have noticed that the majority of the larger games on the App store do have issues running properly, and until people can really figure out how to optimize their code it is going to be like that for a while. I would imagine that for people doing casual games or simple strategy style games, the framerate won't be an issue. Platformers, action games and heavy physics related games I would think would be slow until the code could be optimized.
Again, it looks good !!!
10/01/2008 (2:20 am)
Ok, I'm going to get to the important issue here. WTF happened to your toe dude ?!? It looks worse than some of the things I have done to mine playing soccer :-PNice work on the iTGB release. I have noticed that the majority of the larger games on the App store do have issues running properly, and until people can really figure out how to optimize their code it is going to be like that for a while. I would imagine that for people doing casual games or simple strategy style games, the framerate won't be an issue. Platformers, action games and heavy physics related games I would think would be slow until the code could be optimized.
Again, it looks good !!!
#13
10/01/2008 (9:23 am)
Anyone have a clue about the system requirements? Do you need an Intel based Mac for this?
#14
10/01/2008 (12:00 pm)
This just in Apple Relaxes NDA requirement for App development www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2331498,00.asp
#15
But beyond the usability issues, there doesn't seem to be ANYTHING in the game builder related to the iPhone. No way to set the level builder to iPhone resolution, nothing regarding multi-touch and no iPhone platform export option in the Project Builder. All of these things may be possible, but without at least a minimal user guide, I'm stumped on what to do with this. It doesn't help that the included example project fails to open.
I can't begin to imagine the work that goes into this, but the truth is I fully expected to jump on here today with glowing enthusiasm, and now I'm just sitting here hoping that one day this will all work as advertised.
A 1.0 product should have, at minimum:
-Basic usability
-The ability to do what it advertises
-Basic documentation
The product page advertises this as "a straightforward process" with a "full-featured WYSIWYG realtime editor, easy integration with many 3D modeling packages, a powerful scripting language and more."
I agree with Alex that your marketing page (and the reason I spent $750 for TGB Pro and iTGB) will generate unrealistic expectations. I feel like I'm one of those people who had those expectations. I expected to be able to use iTGB to build iPhone games. Now I'm being told that I ALSO need to be very comfortable with C++ or Objective-C! If I were very comfortable with those languages I would probably have stuck to programming in XCode and Apple's free SDK. I moved from Unity 3D to TGB expecting a comparable easy-to-use solution. I want a button that says "export for iPhone" and I want that export to drop right into the SDK for certificate signing and whatnot. I don't think that's an unrealistic expectation given the way iTGB is positioned on your marketing page.
So now I'm invested in Torque, financially and (more importantly), with my time. The community is great and I already have ideas for things I want to contribute to TDN in the future. So I'm rooting for all this to come together. I know Michael Perry is working fast and furious on the docs. Paul Foster has offered help in the forums. Michael also said a fix is in the works. And I know you said in your post that this may not be indie-ready yet. So at which version does "iTorque Indie" become an indie product?
Finally, there are many current iPhone games that run at a smooth framerate: Space Out, Blue Skies, Billy Frontier, Solar Quest. Toy Bot, Break Classic, Cowabunga, Dreigit and Star Smasher are all physics based action games that run very smoothly.
If TorqueScript alone isn't able to achieve at least 25fps, please provide a link to some documentation regarding this script to code process (or at least point to an example of what this is).
I've tried to write this up as respectfully as possible, without insulting everyone who has worked so hard on this. However, I feel justified in saying that this is not a 1.0 product. I would have preferred it to have been pushed back and fully tested before being released, and with a basic user guide. I know you wanted to get it out as soon as possible, but it just isn't ready.
I wanted to get this all down because while I know basic UI bugs will get fixed, I feel I misunderstood what this product promised, and I'm taking the risk of looking like a jerk for the sake of providing feedback on how I expect it to work. I know I'm not the only one feeling this way.
I'll continue working on new projects in TGB 1.7.4, and look forward to the next release of iTGB.
10/01/2008 (4:52 pm)
As you are probably already aware version 1.0 is broken in several key areas and unusable. Like everyone else, I've left feedback in the forums.But beyond the usability issues, there doesn't seem to be ANYTHING in the game builder related to the iPhone. No way to set the level builder to iPhone resolution, nothing regarding multi-touch and no iPhone platform export option in the Project Builder. All of these things may be possible, but without at least a minimal user guide, I'm stumped on what to do with this. It doesn't help that the included example project fails to open.
I can't begin to imagine the work that goes into this, but the truth is I fully expected to jump on here today with glowing enthusiasm, and now I'm just sitting here hoping that one day this will all work as advertised.
A 1.0 product should have, at minimum:
-Basic usability
-The ability to do what it advertises
-Basic documentation
The product page advertises this as "a straightforward process" with a "full-featured WYSIWYG realtime editor, easy integration with many 3D modeling packages, a powerful scripting language and more."
I agree with Alex that your marketing page (and the reason I spent $750 for TGB Pro and iTGB) will generate unrealistic expectations. I feel like I'm one of those people who had those expectations. I expected to be able to use iTGB to build iPhone games. Now I'm being told that I ALSO need to be very comfortable with C++ or Objective-C! If I were very comfortable with those languages I would probably have stuck to programming in XCode and Apple's free SDK. I moved from Unity 3D to TGB expecting a comparable easy-to-use solution. I want a button that says "export for iPhone" and I want that export to drop right into the SDK for certificate signing and whatnot. I don't think that's an unrealistic expectation given the way iTGB is positioned on your marketing page.
So now I'm invested in Torque, financially and (more importantly), with my time. The community is great and I already have ideas for things I want to contribute to TDN in the future. So I'm rooting for all this to come together. I know Michael Perry is working fast and furious on the docs. Paul Foster has offered help in the forums. Michael also said a fix is in the works. And I know you said in your post that this may not be indie-ready yet. So at which version does "iTorque Indie" become an indie product?
Finally, there are many current iPhone games that run at a smooth framerate: Space Out, Blue Skies, Billy Frontier, Solar Quest. Toy Bot, Break Classic, Cowabunga, Dreigit and Star Smasher are all physics based action games that run very smoothly.
If TorqueScript alone isn't able to achieve at least 25fps, please provide a link to some documentation regarding this script to code process (or at least point to an example of what this is).
I've tried to write this up as respectfully as possible, without insulting everyone who has worked so hard on this. However, I feel justified in saying that this is not a 1.0 product. I would have preferred it to have been pushed back and fully tested before being released, and with a basic user guide. I know you wanted to get it out as soon as possible, but it just isn't ready.
I wanted to get this all down because while I know basic UI bugs will get fixed, I feel I misunderstood what this product promised, and I'm taking the risk of looking like a jerk for the sake of providing feedback on how I expect it to work. I know I'm not the only one feeling this way.
I'll continue working on new projects in TGB 1.7.4, and look forward to the next release of iTGB.
#16
1. Create your game using TGB 1.7.4 with the resolution fixes that allow iPhone screen res targets (we may do a 1.7.5 update soon rolling these resolution changes in...this was supposed to happen a few weeks ago).
2. Use iTGB to deploy your game unedited to the iPhone (no script-to-code conversion necessary at this stage)
3. See your game running, speed may be slow.
4. Continue iterating on your game using 1.7.4. When you get near the final stages, begin your optimization work.
5. Scripts-to-code helps dramatically.
6. Texture optimizations helps dramatically.
7. Efficient use of callbacks and minimal use of script calculations help dramatically
Future versions of iTGB (which you'll receive free) should make steps 5 and 3 either go away or be much less cumbersome.
That's the best we can do right now. I hope it's sufficient for your project. My goal is to see everyone who wants their Torque game on the iPhone to succeed. Game development is not easy on the PC. It's MUCH harder on embedded systems like the iPhone. We'll make it as easy as we can. There's no question at all though that working with iTGB, even as is, provides a huge leg up on those creating games in Objective-C or porting your TGB project directly. Even so, we'll make it better.
10/01/2008 (6:42 pm)
@Patrick & others: You're absolutely right. Perhaps we should have not labeled this a 1.0 release. It is NOT easy to use yet and as I mentioned in the blog, it's borderline "Indie ready." There were definitely some specific issues with this particular release that we're going to resolve very quickly. Some of the larger pieces (like a button that just builds and optimizes your TGB project) will take longer. We're working on them. The alternative to making iTGB available when we did seemed less attractive to the community. "It's done when it's done" can be taken too far and you end up with development cycles that shelter a product too long so that in the same time frame, a weaker product emerges. I'm trying to be as straight as I can with people who are wondering whether they should be working with iTGB yet. I realize there were things we missed in this release. Those are being addressed and you should see an update quickly. After that, the workflow for iTGB you'll very soon see is:1. Create your game using TGB 1.7.4 with the resolution fixes that allow iPhone screen res targets (we may do a 1.7.5 update soon rolling these resolution changes in...this was supposed to happen a few weeks ago).
2. Use iTGB to deploy your game unedited to the iPhone (no script-to-code conversion necessary at this stage)
3. See your game running, speed may be slow.
4. Continue iterating on your game using 1.7.4. When you get near the final stages, begin your optimization work.
5. Scripts-to-code helps dramatically.
6. Texture optimizations helps dramatically.
7. Efficient use of callbacks and minimal use of script calculations help dramatically
Future versions of iTGB (which you'll receive free) should make steps 5 and 3 either go away or be much less cumbersome.
That's the best we can do right now. I hope it's sufficient for your project. My goal is to see everyone who wants their Torque game on the iPhone to succeed. Game development is not easy on the PC. It's MUCH harder on embedded systems like the iPhone. We'll make it as easy as we can. There's no question at all though that working with iTGB, even as is, provides a huge leg up on those creating games in Objective-C or porting your TGB project directly. Even so, we'll make it better.
#17
I can't imagine even with a full-up game engine to not have to know any actual computer language. iPhone development is done in Objective-C (or C/C++), so if you want to develop for the iPhone you should learn it. My guess is all developers will have to touch *some* C flavor before they release a game with any engine. I had never touched Obj-C before I started developing my first app...it was complete & in the App Store about 6 weeks after starting. I don't want to start a flame war here, but I think GG has been very honest & transparent about what they've released. It doesn't bother me if you call it 0.99 or 1.0.
10/01/2008 (7:19 pm)
FWIW, I thought Brett was pretty clear in his original description of the iTGB status. I for one am glad they released it when they did. This way, us indies can get going on things (learning basics at the very least). Development of any software isn't trivial - iTGB & iTGE included. Even if the big green go button isn't in this version, I'm more happy to be working with what's been released than sitting around waiting for it to be absolutely perfect.I can't imagine even with a full-up game engine to not have to know any actual computer language. iPhone development is done in Objective-C (or C/C++), so if you want to develop for the iPhone you should learn it. My guess is all developers will have to touch *some* C flavor before they release a game with any engine. I had never touched Obj-C before I started developing my first app...it was complete & in the App Store about 6 weeks after starting. I don't want to start a flame war here, but I think GG has been very honest & transparent about what they've released. It doesn't bother me if you call it 0.99 or 1.0.
#18
10/01/2008 (7:46 pm)
@Glenn: Shit! I forgot to edit out my beat up toe. I'll neither confirm nor deny that it's purple as a result of too much asskicking.
#19
10/01/2008 (8:38 pm)
@Bryan- wow 6 weeks to develop a CocoaTouch game and published to the app store. I guess you will be publishing iTGB based games by like next Thursday then? You rule.
#20
10/01/2008 (8:44 pm)
@Brett: thanks for the workflow/roadmap. It helps a lot! As a developer with a Objective-C and UIKit experience, I can vouch that TGB does provide a "huge leg up" over straight Obj-C development! I am thrillled with Houdini HD and the DTS exporter, for example. OK cheers. 
Torque Owner Bryan Duke