Torque 3D?

#1 of course I mean, will RTS Kit modules be released for Torque 3D...

#2 I somehow doubt it, as the RTS kit is so basic and filled with false promises, that it would just damage T3D's reputation.
Maybe someone from the community will do it, I'll have a crack at it when I get T3D, but I'm a n00b atm and deciding to generaly stick to FPS for learning.

Tho I think there may be a new ground up RTS "Genre kit" for Torque 3D, which is not a "here's half of what you need(but we make it sound like its everything you need), now you develope the rest yourself!" which the Starter kit is...

#3 Im not sure what failed promises there are in the RTS kit, it promises example code on how to use an RTS camera, select units etc, and delivers all of those. It never claims to be a complete game, in the same way that the FPS kit is not a complete game.

I never expected the RTS starter kit to be any more than the FPS kit, and have been very pleased with it. Especially the networking related stuff in there.

#4 What I ment was I think a RTS genre kit for T3D would have to be by far more complete and be able to play a RTS(C&C/WC basic featured) straight out of the kit without any modification which is what I was meaning that sentance as a comparison to what a T3D RTS kit would be like, aka T3D RTS kit "complete", versus TGE RTS kit "half done, you do the other half".

Quote:This not an actual quote, just skip all of this quoted stuff if you don't want to read about some nocks at the RTS kit.

I did not say anything about failed promises, now I am going to say about "failed promises" (the following are not failed promises but asumptions that a general consumer would make etc etc).
Also I do not wish for this to be attackive or offensive or etc in anyway and I hope it does not seem like a rant.

But on the subject of "what failed promises", the RTS kit "sounded" like it had "everything you needed to make a rts", even if it did not claim to be a complete game, you would assume it contains the basics towards a rts that could be then played out of the box(yes I do see it does actualy do this, but not to a very minor degree), it didn't say anything about the features it did not include, for example, the kit has path finding, it does not state this on the features list, so if you think that, it only contains the features listed, then the units don't move, the kit has very basic base building, but from reading that you would never have assumed they would implement it the way they did and assume that it was done threw a constructor unit, also you would assume their was things like teams (yes there is teams, but thats each player = a team), auto-attack, some kind of basic unit ai for engaging enemy units that you would greatly assume would be in their.

These are all at the end of the day, assumtions and the only person to legally blame is the user themselfs for asuming too much, but alot of people asumed these things, as the reviews of the time showed and were very negative about. (about 4-5years ago, I was a kid then and wanted to get it to make a RTS, as all noobish kids do)

I like the RTS kit, but I had as a kid expected more, like it was some amazing kit that did everything, but its the fact that, $150 for TGE (and in the past $100), $50 for RTS kit, thats 1/3 the cost of the engine currently, yet it does not have done nearly 1/3 ammount of work of TGE. (yes I know TGE is an advancement of Tribes 2 engine, so it is not from scratch)

So without a demo to try, all you can go on is assumptions.

I do think that the RTS kit is good value as TGE is superbe value and am also pleased with it, so realy most of what I put about it is old things and I'm not at all bothered about them anymore, was just stating reasons for such "failed promises" and I think this kit will be fantastic use when I move from learning FPS -> RTS.

#5 As Joseph hinted at, we have mentioned our new genre kit plans for Torque 3D. We have already revealed screens and details about the new FPS Genre Kit.

We are also planning for the following:

*Racing
*RTS
*RPG

I'm sure there will be more, but those are the ones most discussed in the office. Joseph was also correct to assume that these genre kits will be much more complete than the past starter.fps and starter.racing kits that shipped with TGE, as well as the RTS Starter Kit.

Far more functionality, usability, and sample assets.

#6 Besides "functionality, usability, and sample assets" working with Torque 3D... I personally am hoping for well-separated well-encapsulated code modules. I'd prefer options to... More easily use only certain parts of the kits (such as RTS kit). And options to more easily use components I select in a cross-genre game, such as using pieces from FPS and/or Racing and/or RTS and/or RPG kits in one game world. For example, even just an FPS with a mini-map and vehicles.

Btw, any ETA on the new Torque 3D centric RTS kit? Or expected feature list? (Preferably for me, well-separated code modules list?)

#7 Btw I haven't used the original TGE RTS kit, but I guess they have a high level feature list here:

www.garagegames.com/products/rtskit -> see Features list (minimap, rts unit, rts building, unit selection, multiplayer lobby, doc)

#8 @Peter - We are not ready to talk about the RTS Genre Kit yet. We are focusing on Torque 3D and the FPS Genre Kit first.

#9 @Michael I know that getting T3D actually out into the public is your main priority, but I realy think you should work together with Jeff Faust to develop a T3D RPG starter kit with intergrated AFX, because the AFX system is realy a must have, and with some work on your side of development environment, you could put together a realy neat kit with AFX magic, melee attack (like what was included in the old Skelton Pack) mini map, GUI inventory and equip screen :D

From Max

Ps. Just an idea :D but I realy think it would be great and possibly a priiority before the RTS kit, because from reading many forums and blogs, there is a real ask for an advanced RPG kit with what i described above, and although the Isometric RPG kit looks like a start to a great RPG starter kit, there are a few things that could be added and polished, which by GG and Faust working together could produce a very successful RPG Starter Kit which will once again convine torque users that "Torque can be used to make great RPGs...it even has an awesome RPG Starter Kit with EVERYTHING!"

PPS. sorry about my mega long PS, but seriosuly consider it :D

#10 @ Michael: I agree with you that T3D has to be pristine before you start building on top of it. You want your foundation to be solid (to continue the building metaphor), as otherwise you'll have loads of problems afterwards.

I'll wait after the FPS kit (not really the genre I'm working on right now), just make T3D 1.0 atom bomb proof.

#11 @fiammybe: I think "building" is literal (not an analogy / metaphor). You can build something that has a foundation other than a house/building (for example, software, robot, relationship, career, customer base, organization, philosophy, etc) O:-). PS, apologies for my tangent post :-p

#12 I think RTS kit would be great, but I personally want RTS kit code modules that I can pick-and-choose, rather than a prototype RTS example to build directly on top of. Same thing resources, genre kits, or any add-ons.

#13 Another tangent...

Of course I completely agree about the importance of Torque 3D as a solid base. A solid base can mean a variety of things, most (or all) of which are important, such as code organization, algorithms / optimizations, tools quality, (yes even stuff like documentation, samples, community :-p)...

But I think the "atom bomb proof" part is largely a matter of testing (debugging, bug fixing).

If resources were unlimited and it were up to me, then there might be a GG team lab that runs automated regressions with a variety of system combinations on real hardware (and possibly on virtual machine hardware).

But resources are not unlimited, so maybe that is more someone else's responsibility such as:
* GPU and drivers: AMD-ATI / NVIDIA / Intel
* OS and DirectX/OpenGL: Microsoft, Apple, Linux community
* consoles: Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo
* game developers: torque users

Also, I guess GG has a lot of testing going on just from the community of license holders that can submit bugs, or even submit fixes since license holders have source code access.