Official Artist Documentation Feedback

#21 Cool, thanks for finding those Joseph. Good eye.

#22 Documentation Update
I've updated the Artist Landing Page:

- Corrected "Studi" grammatical error
- Fixed link to Damian Johnson's site
- Blender Exporter now links to the project page
- Links to TDN and GG pages now open in same window/tab
- Links to 3rd party site open in new window/tab

*Note - You may not see the changes immediately. The server cache has to be flushed.

#23 ...

#24 Maybe it could be useful to have a quick-start section for each modeling app. It's not that hard to export to dts once you made a few tries. So a very quick tutorial with simple steps to export a character would be nice.
No long explanations, but enough pics to be clear and a few comments on what error could appear at each step. The point is not to learn 3D but export an already technically good 3d model.


1) Check your unit system and face Y axis.
Possible errors: too big, wrong orientation
Possible solutions: box trick, etc..
2) Bounding box and nodes setup
Possible errors: naming convention, nodes invisibles
Possible solutions: refer to a picture with hierarchy of bones and nodes
3) LOD
Possible errors: crash
Possible solution: unmessDTS, etc..
4) Material check (with TGEA quick info and links)
Possible errors: no texture
Possible solution: naming convention, file placement,etc..
5) DTS export
Possible errors: many
Possible solutions: many
6) etc..


Maybe it's no more a quick start, but some kind of simple tutorial where you can spot at wich step an error is born could be useful.
Even for an experienced artist it could give some hints on where to investigate. It could also help the beginners to ask the good question on the forums.
Spotting the origin of an error is what we see the most in the forums.

#25 @Ben - Sounds a lot like a quickstart featuring pitfalls, which is always a good thing to have. In each major content generation cycle I'm going to try and crank out one small document that is universal or genre specific. For instance: Technical FAQ (What is a shader? What are FPS? etc), Torque Artist Reminders, and so on.

Oh, before I forget. Artist should feel free to stop by either IRC Hour we will be having. Your input is just as valued.

#26 @Michael - have you considered (or already exsists?) having info on level building and art creation from a tech point of view, there are a few different ways to get art in to torque and all have pros and cons and effect how they are lit, from tsStatics, difs, dts baked into diff etc, each one will give you different results with lighting and performance which effects the mindset of how you should get the art into torque to get the look you want and how the art is built in the first place, so trade offs and performance differences etc. for example in my experences (tgea),
you can get dts to get light mapped if they are baked into a diff (and its collision hull will form part of the bsp collision) , but the LOD on the dts no longer works, so you have to do LOD on the Diff, but the dff will receive dynamic light but the baked dts will not....so maybe ill use a static dts placed in the editor, but that will not receive shadows, or a lightmap and is lit based on a light map below it, but it will receive dynamic lights etc... its all a bit of a mess and makes it hard to plan how you are going to build you level any further than dts for base struture and static mesh for decoration...etc.

so what i am saying is torques non-uniform lighting provides an interesting problem to work around when working on the art right now, and would be hell for a new user, but made easier if a set of docs explained what was what and recommended what method to use for what type of object in their levels.

NB: i do not claim to know what i am talking about, this is just my experence from my tests as i have been planning how to design my art, and have found the lighting/shadow issue stopping levels looking really great instead of just good.

these are just some thoughts i had i hope they help at least make this part of the docs something to think about as i have never seen this kind of info in a clear manner... its one thing to know how to uses something, but another when and why to use it.

good luck and great work on the doc updates.

#27 @Neil - There will indeed be dedicated areas for level building and art creation. Currently, there is a section on the Artist Landing Page that shows where the level building will be filled. A lot of the documentation will be geared toward art creation and deployment.

Finally, most (if not all) docs will be technical in nature. I only have enough creative ability to photoshop my co-workers with GiMP. My expertise is founded in the technical realm. Your lighting example is a great representation. How I will display it such information will be shown later.

Thanks for the luck and feedback =)

#28 My 2 cents: good documentation covers every step from creating a simple shape - not a sphere, but an actual prop (crate, fence, anything of that effect) to a player model (character or vehicle). So:

The first steps in creating (static) art assets for torque engines (dts and dif) should provide basic information to anyone just starting up: 3d applications with good dts exporter support, exporter matrix updated, definitions and examples for dif/dts, setting and working up scale, basic material setup (for TGEA and the like). Simple, short, heavily illustrated examples.

The best way to do so outside TDN (for those in a hurry) is a game.starter kit, like the tutorial lesson but with more assets and tutorials covering each aspect; terrain, skybox, light editor, moving around, snap (the world editor option gui has a snap section that is hidden, anyone noticed that?) rotate, lock, hide, basic level editing stuff.

The second step should cover anything between a new weapon and a new player/vehicle, gradually covering scripting new weapons, inventory, multiple player models maybe, multiple cars, you name it. The starter kits are great but they really need an upgrade with the aforementioned features; I would call them game.kits because with very simple additions to the existing starter.kits, even the not very experienced people could pick up the engine and get going.

The documentation as I see is a novel; start introducing the characters, the environment and then move onto the heavy stuff. Easy to read, easy to follow up and get back to any step at any time.

#29 Documentation Update

September Documentation Wrap Up Blog

Big thanks to everyone for helping me get through September =)

#30 Hi Michael,

If this is in the wrong place, my apologies.
I just noticed something at http://docs.garagegames.com/artist/
The link for Houdini that says "Official Documentation" goes to an older version (9.1).

And the link that says "3D Modeling Tutorial Listing on GarageGames" ends up at Torque 3D.

The link for "Psyonic MilkShape Tutorials" ends up at a 404.

The link that says "Constructor Made Easy" ends up with a "This blog does not exist"

Same thing goes for "Constructor Web Tutorials" which ends up with a page not found.

A link that says "Animation - A forum for discussion of general 3D Animation issues. If you wish to get support for Torque DTS/DSQ exporters, please see the Torque Art forums. " apparently goes to a TGB Adventure Kit page (Which I can not see)

The link to "Constructor Forums" goes to an iTGE page, which I can also not see.

A link that states "3D Modeling - A forum for discussion of general 3D Modeling issues. If you wish to get support for Torque DTS exporters, please see the Torque Art Forums." ends up at a page for the RTS Starter Kit..

Clicking on the image at the bottom that says "Artist Tools" gives a 404.

And that's just a few links I saw on that page. :/
I would have fixed them but they're not on the actual TDN so I can't.
That's not an extensive list, there's more, just on that page..

I know what I'd like to see in the form of tutorials for Houdini, and I'm working on it. Soon as I have some ready I'll let people know and get some feedback on it and hey, if they come out good enough maybe they can get a place to live here? ;)

Part for that, general tips and advice, examples showing how to go from step a to b to c to d to finally it's in the game engine (Including short script examples but of course focused on the art part)

#31 I'm trying to learn an export path using 3d max8 to torque formatted DTS and most of the documentation appears incomplete.

For example the tdn entitled Introduction to the Max2DTSexporter found at:

http://tdn.garagegames.com/wiki/DTS/OldDoc/Introduction#Collision_Objects:

frequently calls for A File Pack for each stage of the tutorial, (torque_max_filepack.zip 2,314 KB)which is not available. I was able to get the DTS exporter for max8, but not the MultiRes modifier macroscript (named adjustLODs.mcr) for max8 (or any version of max) or any of the examples that would describe the correct node linking for a DTS export. For example, the above mentioned documentation only explains LODs in the context of the adjustLODs.mcr macroscript, so I have no way of knowing how to correctly set up LODs.

If someone were to update the max File Pack then the max2DTS tutorials would be very helpful. Without it unfortunately they are rather useless. Another option would be to rewrite the tutorial to show each element can be completed within max's native toolset.

*Note - after re-reading the max2dts doc the MultiRes modifier can be used to create model LODs. I have rewritten this part of the doc under heading, "Creating Detail Levels (LODs) for Simple Shape using the MultiRes modifier:"

#32 eb and I have both hosted this file for the time being.

Here's my link since I can't remember eb's.

#33 Someone have a look at the things I posted..?
Still broken stuff on just that on artist page alone..
I'm not trying to be an ass :P

#34 my url is so hella-long it isn't funny:
torque.abigholeintheweb.com/public_system/artists/exporter_related/max/torque_ma...

I will be "resourcing" the system tonight, if I can get the ftp system to take my permission settings.

#35 Hey, I have been an avid user of torque for well over a year now. I am an artist. The main comment that I have on the art documentation is simple. Make up to date revisions and additions to take into account the new versions of applications.

For instance. I use 3D studio max 8. It took me forever, a while back, to figure out how to export animations for a character correctly. The problems ended up being caused by the fact that the biped structure had changed in the newer versions of 3DS. It was pretty obvious the documentation that i read had been written using version 4 of max...

Not to mention the fact that the exporter that i use is different then the one used for the documentation. I can see how a new user would be frustrated by this fact. I have no problems now, but that's mostly because I already know how to use it.

Just a suggestion... hope this helps in your endeavor to improve the documentation.

#36

Quote:Can we have a tutorial which explains us how to create a simple character, wheeled vehicle in maya and export it to .dts. There are not many good tutorials which explain them.I even think there are hardly any people who have successfully exported it to .dts from maya.An example of how a buggy was modeled and how it was exported would be really helpful.

From Adithyaa

#37 The problem with the DTS format is that it was inherited. The GG folks who came from Dyanmix are talented folks but I do not believe they were the main coders on it.
I have found some resources that picks apart the DTS file format down to the Hex level. This I needed as in order to write code you need to know the structure. Also the source is helpful.

Now for the Tutorial for exporting. There are many.
You can export for many different packages and each has slightly different ways. Hopefully you will be able to compile all of them into one place. This will make things easier for those not to have to sift through threads looking for info.

I have used Maya for years and stopped recently as I purchased XSI. If you want a tutorial I can get one. I will have to get the files and set it up. I used to do tutorials for 3dsmax and have worked with DTS file format since Tribes.

#38 @Neal: I can help you with your 3dsmax exporting. I have all the tools for max as well as the original V12 (before it was changed to Torque) stuff as well. There is a feature for doing the LOD's was the script you were referencing to. The script takes in account for what you have in your scene and then creates the correct LOD references in the properties. I have that script as well.
It will take me a day or so to dig up all my resources. I will put it online and give a link when its up.
Just drop me an email or message here.

#39 Is there currently an ETA for fixed Artist Documentation? I have the Artist-Only T3D license and the tutorial docs constantly refer to interface elements which have changed, and require files which were not bundled with the software.

#40 T3D Tutorials on creating new vehicle models and putting them into the game world, mounting them with weapons, characters, and perhaps other accessories, and then driving them off into the virtual sunset on the beautiful roads made with the new road-tool.

What sort of things would cause T3D to crash when you collide with the vehicle? How does one add wheels so they look pretty?

Some more details about the various variables one places into the data blocks. What would a steering angle of 300 do to the vehicle? What would a steering force of 10 do to the vehicle? Sure, sure we can experiment... But documentation and tutorials are to save us time.

People buy a game engine to save time. If I have to spend as many hours or more trying to figure out how the game engine I bought works, then I might as well wrote my own from scratch. At least then I'd understand how my engine works!

We need all around better documentation to save us time. Experimentation eats up hours a day, weeks, and weeks of production time. Right now I'm not finding Torque very fast and efficient to make a game in.