The Holy Grail of game design ( was: innovation or the lack of i
by Jarrod Roberson · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 05/23/2002 (3:12 pm) · 9 replies
Ok guys, after all the "animated" discussion of "innovation" or you will fail, I have come to this conclusion.
The only real avenue that any innovation can be made in is in areas of gaming that can be made is in areas of demographics that are not already saturated.
I am working a design document for a game idea, that I suggested to my wife that she LOVED is might just be slighty innovative. Yes it is nothing more than gameplay from some other games but the main point is the gameplay it is aimed at women, 18 - ?? years old, like my wife who will be celebrating the 5 aniversery of her 25th birthday soon.
This is one area that I think can have true innovation, because no one has successfully breached this market ever. Not even EDIT: thanks George Purple Moon or any of those other companies run by women. I mean I KNOW women play games, my wife plays a few, mostly GameBoy, with the exception of games like Life, CrashBash, ICO, Myst, Zork, etc. the PS2 controller is "too complicated" , she like most other people myself included enjoy watching people play GTA3 as much as playing! She also like to "play" games like Resident Evil, as long as someone else [me] is "driving".
So Jeff wants to see innovative creative games, Matt says you HAVE to be original and innovative, here is my FRIENDLY challenge!
Come up with ideas for games aimed at the fairer sex that are not condecending, stereotypical, patronizing or insulting.
I DARE YOU!
The only real avenue that any innovation can be made in is in areas of gaming that can be made is in areas of demographics that are not already saturated.
I am working a design document for a game idea, that I suggested to my wife that she LOVED is might just be slighty innovative. Yes it is nothing more than gameplay from some other games but the main point is the gameplay it is aimed at women, 18 - ?? years old, like my wife who will be celebrating the 5 aniversery of her 25th birthday soon.
This is one area that I think can have true innovation, because no one has successfully breached this market ever. Not even EDIT: thanks George Purple Moon or any of those other companies run by women. I mean I KNOW women play games, my wife plays a few, mostly GameBoy, with the exception of games like Life, CrashBash, ICO, Myst, Zork, etc. the PS2 controller is "too complicated" , she like most other people myself included enjoy watching people play GTA3 as much as playing! She also like to "play" games like Resident Evil, as long as someone else [me] is "driving".
So Jeff wants to see innovative creative games, Matt says you HAVE to be original and innovative, here is my FRIENDLY challenge!
Come up with ideas for games aimed at the fairer sex that are not condecending, stereotypical, patronizing or insulting.
I DARE YOU!
About the author
#2
I've talked to a couple of female gamers I know and they all would appreciate more games marketed toward them. I've noticed that a lot of games that would appeal to women don't get as much notice by them as they should simply because the majority of current gamers are male. Take the Sims for example. There really is no gender bias for that.
I've also found that most female gamers would be more interested in puzzle games, which a lot of the time could be things like solitare or the latest Microsoft craze Bejeweled. Most women are not and probably would not be hardcore gamers so when designing a game for them you have to keep that in mind.
I think if someone could think of a way to incorporate romance novels with games they would have a killer market on there hands. Hmmm soap opera, done like a horror title? Could be interesting.
Alc
05/23/2002 (4:04 pm)
Come on guys, aren't you just rushing to the store to get Britney's Dance Beat? ;)I've talked to a couple of female gamers I know and they all would appreciate more games marketed toward them. I've noticed that a lot of games that would appeal to women don't get as much notice by them as they should simply because the majority of current gamers are male. Take the Sims for example. There really is no gender bias for that.
I've also found that most female gamers would be more interested in puzzle games, which a lot of the time could be things like solitare or the latest Microsoft craze Bejeweled. Most women are not and probably would not be hardcore gamers so when designing a game for them you have to keep that in mind.
I think if someone could think of a way to incorporate romance novels with games they would have a killer market on there hands. Hmmm soap opera, done like a horror title? Could be interesting.
Alc
#3
Most of the female games I know hate those girl games. They aren't fond of FPS and stuff eighter. They like what's in between. Not too much violence, blood and gore but certainly not "happy happy joy joy" games. The girls I know mostly like racing games (mario kart, need for speed), platform games (Crash Bandicoot) and fighting games (the fun and eggagerated ones like Clay Fighter, not the serious ones).
I think men should take a real good look at what women want before we start designing games for them. Or better yet: Get women in your team!
- an eye for an eye will make the world go blind -
05/24/2002 (12:45 am)
I think the main cause why female games don't work is because they are designed by men. All the girl games I have seen so far are games with candy bar colour schemes, very girly subjects, etcetera. And they don't sell. (BTW, i'm not talking about games like "the sims". They aren't girl games IMHO).Most of the female games I know hate those girl games. They aren't fond of FPS and stuff eighter. They like what's in between. Not too much violence, blood and gore but certainly not "happy happy joy joy" games. The girls I know mostly like racing games (mario kart, need for speed), platform games (Crash Bandicoot) and fighting games (the fun and eggagerated ones like Clay Fighter, not the serious ones).
I think men should take a real good look at what women want before we start designing games for them. Or better yet: Get women in your team!
- an eye for an eye will make the world go blind -
#4
05/24/2002 (8:03 am)
having women on the team didn't do Purple Moon any good, and that was a company owned and run by women!
#5
So, my conclusions would be that multi-player games would seem to be the way forward, especially ones with several players per PC/console. But I could be completely wrong of course...
05/24/2002 (2:49 pm)
I don't think the game design is at fault too much. This is just my experience on the topic but here goes... I think that what is wanted more then anything else is social interaction. Me and some friends used to play doom, over modem. We had a female friend who would happily play doom with us, but only as long as she was playing with someone else - so someone would move, while she shot or whatever. She liked it plenty, but would never play it on her own. She said that she never thought much of the game, but she enjoyed playing it with other people. One of my best friends has an N64, and we played Goldeneye split screen. His sister (who was 16ish at the time) enjoyed playing it with us, but on her own, would never play anything other then solitaire. All this just suggests to me that female gamers (ones that I know anyway - I'm not trying to make an all-inclusive statement here) would count the social interaction in a game higher then the premise of the game.So, my conclusions would be that multi-player games would seem to be the way forward, especially ones with several players per PC/console. But I could be completely wrong of course...
#6
1) Non-violent
2) Challenging
3) Realistic learning curve
3) Non-traditional punishment (no player death, no game restart, no taunting)
4) Characters without exaggerated features was HUGE. In other words, no scantily clad females showing massive cleavage, tiny hips, pouty lips, ect. No Lara Crofts or Dead or Alive fighters.
5) Deep Customization of characters
6) Robust character history and personality traits. Each character had to have a backstory, an archetype, and psychological flaw.
Start listing the games you know that contain all those elements. The most popular games played by females I know that contain that list are The Sims, Katmari Damacy, DDR, and Guitar Hero (my favorite).
Thoughts, rants, retorts?
09/25/2006 (10:07 am)
Not sure if it will ever be read, but I was hoping to bring this thread back to life. I recently graduated from Full Sail's Game Design program. One of the classes we had to take was called "Ethics and Psychology". To be honest, the class dealt more with gender inclusive game design than ethics or psychology. Even though the class did not teach what I had hoped, I was pleased with learning how to design and market a game that could appeal to all age groups and genders. The main project of the class was for a small team to design a gender inclusive game which differs entirely from what the top sellers are today, ie Doom 3, Halo, Dead or Alive. First, let me say I have a stack of design documents I've written for games I hope to make one day. I'm talking seven or eight, each containing about 80-200 pages of game play, characters, asset lists, and more. Out of all the games I've designed, nothing was as difficult as the one I had to write for that class. After reviewing articles and case studies about what turns female gamers off from certain games, we had to implement the following.1) Non-violent
2) Challenging
3) Realistic learning curve
3) Non-traditional punishment (no player death, no game restart, no taunting)
4) Characters without exaggerated features was HUGE. In other words, no scantily clad females showing massive cleavage, tiny hips, pouty lips, ect. No Lara Crofts or Dead or Alive fighters.
5) Deep Customization of characters
6) Robust character history and personality traits. Each character had to have a backstory, an archetype, and psychological flaw.
Start listing the games you know that contain all those elements. The most popular games played by females I know that contain that list are The Sims, Katmari Damacy, DDR, and Guitar Hero (my favorite).
Thoughts, rants, retorts?
#7
so this leaves me with the general topic of our disscussion, the gender gap. (this is not to slander woman, please i do not need the hate mail, lol) the ale populus of this planet do have a better grasp of spatial reasoning, hense oe of the main reasons whyit is so appealing to theboys and men of today. but this is not to say by any means that women cannot have the same reasoning skills, men just have a head start. if it were possible to take a poll of everyone that plays games, it would be interesting to see the results. as a matter of my opinion, i feel men are more likely to think about themselves and devote the time they feel they need to play their game, as where women feel a deeper need to accomplish for everyone but themselves. my wife loves to play, but she feels more compelled to do everything else, before she can enjoy playing, which drves me nuts. but that is how it goes.
bottom line, there are not enough female gamers out there to create a new demographic so these companies can create games just for them.
but all of this is great news for all of us underground developers, this means all the niche's have not been filled, other people have a better chance finding something unique like themselves because of teams and people like you.
'if you build it they will come'
cheesy, but very true. before 1997 no one ever thought they needed sandbox games, but now the concept is the backbone to almost all game creation.
we are the force that will change the futur of gaming, will we stand by and be told what to make? or will we rise up and flood the market with our ideas and passions?
09/28/2006 (1:45 pm)
Tring to brake into the market of video games and entertainment, i have had many lengthy coversations with my wife over this very topic. about 15 years ago it was easier to create a 'catch all' sort of game, a game that appealed to a wide demograpic. this day and age we (meaning every one that conciders themselves apart of our society) have be come vastly desensitized to all the 'playful' violence or horror. castlevania was a freaky game back in 87, but today we have games like dead rising, where he satire might be wholly comical, the VF/X of the game are very grusome. so the main producers of games (lets face it, there are 5 maga giant companies out there that mass market all that we play) turn into the evening news, they go for the shock value, the 'oooooo's and 'awwwwwww's, but the gameplay or logic is just horrid. look at the standard play time for most games on the 360, 8-12 if you are lucky. volence sells, it always has, and who does violence appeal too? mostly the angered youth of today. these kids have money(or at least their parents do), they can go out and be comsumed by the latest commercial gimic, only to toss the disc away after a few weeks of play, the advancement of gaming ADD. we (as a game developing community) have dropped the ball, the ART of video games is slowly spinning downward into the dismal abyss of forgotenness, only to be replaced with the same regergatated(?) formula, too capture that dollar.so this leaves me with the general topic of our disscussion, the gender gap. (this is not to slander woman, please i do not need the hate mail, lol) the ale populus of this planet do have a better grasp of spatial reasoning, hense oe of the main reasons whyit is so appealing to theboys and men of today. but this is not to say by any means that women cannot have the same reasoning skills, men just have a head start. if it were possible to take a poll of everyone that plays games, it would be interesting to see the results. as a matter of my opinion, i feel men are more likely to think about themselves and devote the time they feel they need to play their game, as where women feel a deeper need to accomplish for everyone but themselves. my wife loves to play, but she feels more compelled to do everything else, before she can enjoy playing, which drves me nuts. but that is how it goes.
bottom line, there are not enough female gamers out there to create a new demographic so these companies can create games just for them.
but all of this is great news for all of us underground developers, this means all the niche's have not been filled, other people have a better chance finding something unique like themselves because of teams and people like you.
'if you build it they will come'
cheesy, but very true. before 1997 no one ever thought they needed sandbox games, but now the concept is the backbone to almost all game creation.
we are the force that will change the futur of gaming, will we stand by and be told what to make? or will we rise up and flood the market with our ideas and passions?
#8
Don't let people tell you these "niches" don't exist. The makers of GH took a huge flyer in releasing an expensive (special controller) and complicated (from a production standpoint) game, but they made the game right and trusted their instincts about the market. They now a mega-hit, they have shipped alternate guitars and GH2 is going to ship for PS2 and all the next gen consoles and MTV (for better or worse) just bought their company. These guys succeeded beyond their wildest dreams based on an idea as simple as "Air Guitar The Game" or maybe "It's Rock Guitar Karaoke" - how hard an idea is that to have?
Just because the "gaming industry" has become addicted to sequels and "the next fps" doesn't mean people can't find new and interesting things to create out there and then in-turn have people find those games.
My $.02,
=Tod
09/28/2006 (3:49 pm)
For all the speculating about gender and gaming one of the biggest unsung recent revolutions is Guitar Hero. As many women I know play GH as men do and for many it is the only PS2 game they play. My girlfriend actually went out and bought a PS2 to replace my old one when it broke when I hadn't gotten around to getting a new one after a week. I was shocked! She had played at snowboarding a little but other than that ignored/hated the PS2, but she couldn't live without her GH fix. I know a husband and wife who play duets as a couples activity and another friend of mine plays it and his 3 year-old daughter imitates him and "plays" her little inflatable guitar along side dad.Don't let people tell you these "niches" don't exist. The makers of GH took a huge flyer in releasing an expensive (special controller) and complicated (from a production standpoint) game, but they made the game right and trusted their instincts about the market. They now a mega-hit, they have shipped alternate guitars and GH2 is going to ship for PS2 and all the next gen consoles and MTV (for better or worse) just bought their company. These guys succeeded beyond their wildest dreams based on an idea as simple as "Air Guitar The Game" or maybe "It's Rock Guitar Karaoke" - how hard an idea is that to have?
Just because the "gaming industry" has become addicted to sequels and "the next fps" doesn't mean people can't find new and interesting things to create out there and then in-turn have people find those games.
My $.02,
=Tod
#9
I always have mixed feelings when I hear my elders use the term "angered youth." I am usually amused that we are labeled angry, yet no one explains or asks what we are angry about (my pesonal rant about why I'm angry is at the bottom). I'm baffled as to why my elders say games have become more violent. Imagine my horror when I first saw a round yellow man use a power-up so he could eat cute ghosts alive (Puck-man 1979).
Point: "but this is not to say by any means that women cannot have the same reasoning skills, men just have a head start"
Counterpoint: Did I miss the firing of the gun? When I looked up from the starting block to start this race called life, I felt like I would always be behind. Now that I have a running mate (my girlfriend), I don't care who wins the race, so long as I feel good about myself when I finish. Besides, we as humans beings are inherantly flawed, and naturally irrational. I see no spectrum at all.
Point: "...there are not enough female gamers out there to create a new demographic so these companies can create games just for them."
Counterpoint: Since you are just recently getting into the industry, there is a chance that you haven't been provided with enough resources. I say this because I know the female gamer demographic not only exists, but it's huge!!! I could fill 3 entire posts with evidence and discussions on this alone. Companies do not need to create this demographic. However, if they wish to capitalize on it, they need to dedicate more money toward the hiring of innovative Indie designers (sorry for the plug), instead of dumping money into "Insert Your Favorite Sport" 2007(or 2K6 or 2K5 or 2K4).
Point: "we are the force that will change the futur of gaming, will we stand by and be told what to make? or will we rise up and flood the market with our ideas and passions?"
Counterpoint: NONE!!! I could not have said it more passionately or eloquently myself.
***WARNING PERSONAL RANT***
You know what would make me angry? Hypothetically, suppose I am a chemically unbalanced individual who was severely abused mentally, physically, and sexually by my guardian while I was growing up. One day, due to immense mental anguish and raging chemical signals, I decide to help my guardian shuffle loose the mortal coil. If at the time prior to this terrible act, I used a video game as my escape tool, there's a good chance some Florida lawyer might mount a crusade against the game's developer using me as his latest tool, or example. Here's the anger: I'd be angry because I was not loved or cared for by my guardian, like all children should be. I'd be angry that my life is being USED by others for their own personal gain. And you know what folks, I'd be down right PISSED OFF if nothing was learned from my situation and it all happened again, all because we all live in a society where it is more important to find someone to blame than it is to find a way to prevent it from happening again.
***END PERSONAL RANT***
*EDIT: Changed formatting for an easier read.*
09/28/2006 (4:42 pm)
@chicoguy: Normally, I do not post pre-notes before my responses, but I feel the need due to recent events. I'm letting you know ahead of time that I value your opinion, and in no way is my response meant to be facetious or an attemp to "flame you." I merely have a difference of opinion.I always have mixed feelings when I hear my elders use the term "angered youth." I am usually amused that we are labeled angry, yet no one explains or asks what we are angry about (my pesonal rant about why I'm angry is at the bottom). I'm baffled as to why my elders say games have become more violent. Imagine my horror when I first saw a round yellow man use a power-up so he could eat cute ghosts alive (Puck-man 1979).
Point: "but this is not to say by any means that women cannot have the same reasoning skills, men just have a head start"
Counterpoint: Did I miss the firing of the gun? When I looked up from the starting block to start this race called life, I felt like I would always be behind. Now that I have a running mate (my girlfriend), I don't care who wins the race, so long as I feel good about myself when I finish. Besides, we as humans beings are inherantly flawed, and naturally irrational. I see no spectrum at all.
Point: "...there are not enough female gamers out there to create a new demographic so these companies can create games just for them."
Counterpoint: Since you are just recently getting into the industry, there is a chance that you haven't been provided with enough resources. I say this because I know the female gamer demographic not only exists, but it's huge!!! I could fill 3 entire posts with evidence and discussions on this alone. Companies do not need to create this demographic. However, if they wish to capitalize on it, they need to dedicate more money toward the hiring of innovative Indie designers (sorry for the plug), instead of dumping money into "Insert Your Favorite Sport" 2007(or 2K6 or 2K5 or 2K4).
Point: "we are the force that will change the futur of gaming, will we stand by and be told what to make? or will we rise up and flood the market with our ideas and passions?"
Counterpoint: NONE!!! I could not have said it more passionately or eloquently myself.
***WARNING PERSONAL RANT***
You know what would make me angry? Hypothetically, suppose I am a chemically unbalanced individual who was severely abused mentally, physically, and sexually by my guardian while I was growing up. One day, due to immense mental anguish and raging chemical signals, I decide to help my guardian shuffle loose the mortal coil. If at the time prior to this terrible act, I used a video game as my escape tool, there's a good chance some Florida lawyer might mount a crusade against the game's developer using me as his latest tool, or example. Here's the anger: I'd be angry because I was not loved or cared for by my guardian, like all children should be. I'd be angry that my life is being USED by others for their own personal gain. And you know what folks, I'd be down right PISSED OFF if nothing was learned from my situation and it all happened again, all because we all live in a society where it is more important to find someone to blame than it is to find a way to prevent it from happening again.
***END PERSONAL RANT***
*EDIT: Changed formatting for an easier read.*
Torque Owner George McBay
It amazes me that the mainstream publishing/developing folk ignore this market...They are throwing money down the drain.
The project I'm currently working on isn't girl/woman focused but its of the type that I believe they will enjoy (and we have a female on our team, so I guess that helps).
Also I think that was Purple Moon(?), and I agree, most "games for girls" are total crap with pretty colors, and when they dont sell well these idiot publishers assume there's no market for girl gamers...