Where is the beginner section
by Jason Hutchins · in Torque 2D Beginner · 11/27/2016 (8:55 pm) · 3 replies
I am hopelessly lost. I downloaded Torque 2d and have been through sevedral of the tutorials that came with the documentation. Thinking I'd made some progress, I shot over here to Torque 2d Beginner's Forum and started reading the "Learning the GUI" post (Robert Lohaus). There is no way that the concepts touched on in this post and the subsequent replies could possibly be considered "beginner" level...could it? Nothing here makes any sense at all to me and I've been voraciously reading the Manual for a couple weeks now. In fact, I'm sure none of this is even IN the manual. So, in an effort to find something for the absolute beginner who doesn't already know everything there is to know about the minutia of how the GUI works, where game programming is the focus, I opened up the "Getting Started Guide".
Not far into it, however, I realized I was somehow reading a tutorial for some other program than the Torque 2d I've been studying all this time. Do I really have to be so intimately involved with the Github website, to where I'm downloading into folders on my desktop, and modifying the Appcore Module, whatever that is? What is a repository? I guess the basics of what an Asset is isn't too hard to understand - why aren't they mentioned in the manual? Why does the beginner "Getting Started" tutorial have a section on compiling the source, and then absolutely no hints about how one might do that, other than to "use your favorite compiler". Makes no sense, especially when you can just download a copy that's already working. What the heck is the TAML module? And what is this sandbox everyone but me knows about? Toys, what?
WHAT BOOK HAS EVERYONE READ THAT I HAVEN'T? I was really excited about this until I looked at the site and realized that the beginner section is so far beyond me it may as well be devoted to rocket surgery. Am I wasting my time if I have little/no experience programming.
Starting to think so.
Not far into it, however, I realized I was somehow reading a tutorial for some other program than the Torque 2d I've been studying all this time. Do I really have to be so intimately involved with the Github website, to where I'm downloading into folders on my desktop, and modifying the Appcore Module, whatever that is? What is a repository? I guess the basics of what an Asset is isn't too hard to understand - why aren't they mentioned in the manual? Why does the beginner "Getting Started" tutorial have a section on compiling the source, and then absolutely no hints about how one might do that, other than to "use your favorite compiler". Makes no sense, especially when you can just download a copy that's already working. What the heck is the TAML module? And what is this sandbox everyone but me knows about? Toys, what?
WHAT BOOK HAS EVERYONE READ THAT I HAVEN'T? I was really excited about this until I looked at the site and realized that the beginner section is so far beyond me it may as well be devoted to rocket surgery. Am I wasting my time if I have little/no experience programming.
Starting to think so.
#2
Hey dude thanks so much for answering me so patiently in spite of the pouty & childish tone of my post. I think nothing frustrates me more than being limited creatively by my own ignorance. I was, however, ultimately able to answer the majority of these inane questions with an hour's research and a couple of your video tutorials.
Although I haven't given up on Torque, I've started looking into some other possibilities that might be more accessible to novices. Pygame seems promising, for one.
QUOTE: "Playing games provides instant gratification. Making games provides instant frustration."
...Very succinct summary of what I'm presently discovering in this endeavor
QUOTE: "I find greater reward in making something than using it."
...I know what you mean - learning game programming and planning my ideas is seriously starting to eat into my game PLAYING time lately!
11/29/2016 (6:30 am)
Mitch (think I heard you say that's what you go by in one of your videos):Hey dude thanks so much for answering me so patiently in spite of the pouty & childish tone of my post. I think nothing frustrates me more than being limited creatively by my own ignorance. I was, however, ultimately able to answer the majority of these inane questions with an hour's research and a couple of your video tutorials.
Although I haven't given up on Torque, I've started looking into some other possibilities that might be more accessible to novices. Pygame seems promising, for one.
QUOTE: "Playing games provides instant gratification. Making games provides instant frustration."
...Very succinct summary of what I'm presently discovering in this endeavor
QUOTE: "I find greater reward in making something than using it."
...I know what you mean - learning game programming and planning my ideas is seriously starting to eat into my game PLAYING time lately!
#3
I didn't sense pouty and childish content in your post. You're venting frustration, which I've seen amongst the best and brightest in the industry. Moderating this website for so many years, it's nothing terrible. The real measure is whether you forge ahead.
The trick is finding the best fit for your current project and running with it. In your case, your project is learning how to code a game. Wherever you land, maybe the mantra I use will help you:
Read. Read Code. Code.
11/29/2016 (9:32 am)
You got the pronunciation correct =)I didn't sense pouty and childish content in your post. You're venting frustration, which I've seen amongst the best and brightest in the industry. Moderating this website for so many years, it's nothing terrible. The real measure is whether you forge ahead.
Quote:Although I haven't given up on Torque, I've started looking into some other possibilities that might be more accessible to novices. Pygame seems promising, for one.Makes sense. No one should limit themselves to one tech. It's acceptable to test different engines until you excel at one. Just know that the grass is greener effect applies to game dev. A lot of folks switched to Unity because it was easier than Torque, in their mind. Then they encountered problems in Unity and realized the basic truth. Making games is hard. All tech has bugs/limitations/points of frustration.
The trick is finding the best fit for your current project and running with it. In your case, your project is learning how to code a game. Wherever you land, maybe the mantra I use will help you:
Read. Read Code. Code.
Employee Michael Perry
ZombieShortbus
With Torque, some prior experience in development is expected...but that's never completely stated. It's not that folks have read any magic book. Most devs either start where you are or come to Torque with previous game development experience.
Some of the basics are not Torque specific, like source control systems (git), design patterns, data structures, asset management concepts, and so on. That kind of information you have to learn outside of the Torque docs. You will not learn all of it over night. Playing games provides instant gratification. Making games provides instant frustration. However, I find greater reward in making something than using it. Heck, I'm already feeling the frustration of learning how to make my own art for games. It's not unique to programming, so hang in there.
That depends. If you want to acquire the latest Torque 2D MIT, you need to know at least how to get to the site and download the pre-built version of the engine. If you want to contribute to the shared code, you would need to become familiar with source control systems, specifically git.
A Torque 2D module is typically an isolated system consisting of code, assets, or both. It is usually defined via a folder, a module definition file (XML), and then the contents (code files, art, asset files). AppCore is primary module used for loading all the other modules.
Repository
Git
Torque 2D wiki
Asset Manager
Torque has a history of targeting programmers ads the main demographic, most of which have used compilers in the past. Visual Studio is the most popular for Windows, Xcode for MacOS. The reason they do not get covered in the guide is because compiling is outside of the scope. It is assumed knowledge, which you can acquire from other beginner sites.
Still, I can answer any questions you have about any of those individual topics.
TAML is the serialization system for Torque. Rather than defining everything in code, you can define your assets, modules, game levels, and more in XML. It is called TAML as a nod to XAML (Extensible Application Markup Language). XAML was spearheaded by Microsoft for use in its UI system. We took the concept of XAML and modified it for use in Torque (Torque Application Markup Language). Trust me when I say it is far better than trying to do everything in code.
It's exactly what you would think it is, if compared to real life. Kids will play in a sandbox, often with toys. When you download Torque 2D MIT, the example project (module) available out of the box is named Sandbox. It could easily have been called toy box or playground. The T2D sandbox contains several toys (modules) that show off individual features of the engine. Each toy module will have sample code and art you can study to learn how Torque works. So there is a Sprite toy, which shows how to draw sprites on the screen. There is an AnimatedSprite toy which shows how to animate sprites. Some are simple (Sprite) and some are complex (Truck).
Many programmers learn from examples, then their own trial and error. You would be amazed at how few programmers will actually read docs and books. They tend to just dive in and figure it out as they go, much to my dismay when I wrote Torque documentation...the whole "you can lead a horse to water" problem.
Again, if you have any specific questions you can post here as often as you like. There is a lot more activity on Torqu3d.org, though. Even though it started as 3D specific, there are some folks there who are super knowledgable with Torque 2D. I don't lurk there, so I may not see your posts. If you post here in the Torque 2D beginner forum, I will see it. I check here daily.